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    MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Interesting Motor Trend article. They don't exactly say that in the article, but I like the cover treatment. The reviews so far are looking very promising. They seem to really love the looks and the sound of the car as much as the way it drives.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Oh Boy! Just think of all the high school kids who will have to go nuts trying to get their minds around THAT idea (Cayman better than 911!).

    They're the only ones who seriously read those mags, aren't they?

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    I would suspect their marketing data would say otherwise. Your point is well taken...but when we don't have the car to drive yet, any words from those who have driven it are interesting.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Since my dealer (and other dealers I know over here in Germany) doesn't have a SINGLE Cayman S pre-order, I somehow think that the press gets a lot of "attention" from Porsche to make people actually think that the Cayman S is AT LEAST a 911 competitor. How to justify the higher price tag otherwise?

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Since my dealer (and other dealers I know over here in Germany) doesn't have a SINGLE Cayman S pre-order, I somehow think that the press gets a lot of "attention" from Porsche to make people actually think that the Cayman S is AT LEAST a 911 competitor. How to justify the higher price tag otherwise?



    Like I always supected we will see a ton of 911 vs. Cayman articles and comparisons, and just about every article will sneak in a "Its not a Boxster Coupe" blurb. As RC said, there has to be something to justify the lofty price of the new Boxster based coupe......oh that's right, it's a Cayman!

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    My understanding is the prices on the Boxster are going up so the disparity between the Boxster S and Cayman may not be as great as it appears to be at the moment. It also remains to be seen what standard equipment will be offered in the US on the Cayman in relation to the Boxster S. Naturally the argument that a coupe should be less expensive than a roadster remains.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    RC, I know you know what you are talking about, and I know that you are a Porsche enthusiast, and I am a Porsche salesman; but I beg to differ. Maybe the economy in Germany
    is not quite as robust as in South Florida, but I have,
    personnaly about 15 pre-order reservations (with $ Deposits)
    and our dealership has about a total of 35 Reservations
    ( with Money ) for 2006 Cayman S model. People here in the
    States are VERY excited about this new model, and so am I !
    Revvv

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    Revvv said:
    RC, I know you know what you are talking about, and I know that you are a Porsche enthusiast, and I am a Porsche salesman; but I beg to differ. Maybe the economy in Germany
    is not quite as robust as in South Florida, but I have,
    personnaly about 15 pre-order reservations (with $ Deposits)
    and our dealership has about a total of 35 Reservations
    ( with Money ) for 2006 Cayman S model. People here in the
    States are VERY excited about this new model, and so am I !
    Revvv



    I know... The "problem" is always the US: the 924 was a great success, the 944 too, then the 928. All these models almost drove Porsche into catastrophy. The Cayenne is a similar phenomenon, selling great in the US but not that great in Europe, of course due to the absence of a Diesel engine.
    So what happens if the US economy slows down or if people suddenly discover new toys from other manufacturers?

    I personally think that the Cayman is Porsche's answer to a question nobody asked. Some people wanted an entry level model, others a lightweight track racer. The Cayman is a nice model, no doubt about it but it isn't the answer to the questions potential customers actually asked.

    There may be some sort of Cayman hype now and since we saw the Cayman LIVE, I think this hype will hold a year or maybe two. But as soon as people understand that the Cayman is what it is, I think that people will be disappointed.

    I'm a 100% Porsche nut, I would buy almost any Porsche model, I bought a Cayenne and I would probably buy the 4-door sedan too. But the Cayman is different, it seems to be some sort of "Mogelpackung" like we say here in Germany.
    The same car with a less Boxster-ish design and a 340 HP engine would have been nice. But like that, not a chance.
    But I'm sure that as soon as Cayman sales slow down, Porsche has an entry level Cayman and a stronger Cayman prepared for introduction. I'm afraid it is all about money, not what customers really want. And as long as people like me are dumb enough to buy these cars, Porsche doesn't have any reason to change something.

    I wish you good luck with the Cayman and I also wish you a lot of Cayman customers. But also think about this: the Cayman isn't something people really wanted. So the question is: where do customers come from? The answer is simple: from current Boxster and 911 models. So you win some...and loose some, not sure if this is what Porsche really wanted.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Unfortunately; I think you are correct on all accounts....
    It may be a good 2 years, though. Thanks for your response.
    Take Care, Revvv

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    Revvv said:
    It may be a good 2 years, though.




    If so, you can buy us dinner in Fort Lauderdale in two years. Did you read my post regarding those two Porsche models (997 and Cayenne) I saw with Champion Porsche license plates parking on Las Olas next to those little restaurants? Nice marketing move. We always went to the Riverside to the cinema.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    RC and Revvv

    We all know Porsche are in it for the money, but perhaps you're both too sceptical...

    I've ordered a Cayman because I want a 2 seater coupe with great handling and reasonable luggage space that doesn't cost as much as a 911. I'm quite happy if everyone concludes it's a Boxster Coupe, although of course it would have been nice to get it cheaper...

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Agree, willr, you've articulated my conclusions as well. I believe that comparions with the 911 are not in the best interests of this model's success. Any challenge to the 911 (justified or not) immediately engenders all types of negative reactions for a variety of reasons. I don't view Porsche's need to market its cars (product is the business term, sadly generic), if the company had closed its doors in the early 90s, or been engulfed by a larger automobile manufacturer, it's doubtful that there would be much of interest to discuss on this board.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    RC,
    I promise you, I'll take you, and your Wife to dinner on Las Olas with one of my Cayman commissions. Come on down !
    Revvv

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    I'd like to know where people get the idea that the Cayman isnt what anyone wants, has there been surveys or something?

    How good the sales are will be interesting, but plenty of people do want a Cayman - of course they would like it to cost less than a Boxster, but thats not the point, i'd like a 997 to cost less too. Not everyone thinks or wants the same as you (thats not directed at anyone in particular).

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    RC has a good point. I think most of the sales of Cayman will come from Boxster S or 911. It's too expensive for someone who owns a TT. I want a coupe Porsche, but I am also a Boxster S owner and would probably have bought a 911 instead.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    Martin Tyler said:
    I'd like to know where people get the idea that the Cayman isnt what anyone wants, has there been surveys or something?

    How good the sales are will be interesting, but plenty of people do want a Cayman - of course they would like it to cost less than a Boxster, but thats not the point, i'd like a 997 to cost less too. Not everyone thinks or wants the same as you (thats not directed at anyone in particular).



    No, there are no valid statistics but if you have followed this particular Cayman list since the inception you can pretty much get an idea of what SOME people are thinking.

    I for one tend to agree with the "answer to no particular question" thinking.

    You have many on this list who were ready for a lean and mean track machine with all the "back to the basics" build up Porsche did for it......and it is not that.....at least not in this "S" form.

    Then you have the people wanting a below Boxster priced coupe (as every other coupe IS priced less than its drop top counter part) with the same 240/280 HP engines.....no, this is not it.

    What we got was a pretty pricey 295HP coupe that is about $10k-$20k higher than most of its intended competition and will pretty much be eclipsed by it in the next year or two. In its present form I don't believe it will be a true challenge to the 911.....and never will be in any "street" form.

    I do like the Cayman a lot......but I wanted to *love* it, instead it has me reviewing all the other hardware that will be coming out in the next year or two for around the same price.....and there will be some exceptional substitutes IMO. It used to be the only thing on my list, now it's not.....but it's still pretty high up.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I personally think that the Cayman is Porsche's answer to a question nobody asked. Some people wanted an entry level model, others a lightweight track racer. The Cayman is a nice model, no doubt about it but it isn't the answer to the questions potential customers actually asked.

    (...)
    But also think about this: the Cayman isn't something people really wanted. So the question is: where do customers come from? The answer is simple: from current Boxster and 911 models. So you win some...and loose some, not sure if this is what Porsche really wanted.



    RC, try to look at this from a different angle.
    Porsche have a chioce:
    They can choose between losing customers to other carmakers or lose customers to themselves.
    The Cayman is a classic example of "product cannibalizing".
    People who find the 911-series worn or simply want a "real" sportscar setup (mid engine) could either turn totally away from Porsche or get a less-dedicated no-roof Boxster.....until recently when the Cayman came along.

    So Cayman might very well keep business within the Porsche family.

    Another thing:
    I more and more believe that Cayman will be a bigger threat to the 911 than you think.
    Everyone refers to the Boxster and Cayman as "smaller brother of the 911", "mini-911" etc. I think it's vice versa: The 911 is a "butt-heavy" version of the siblimely balanced Cayman.
    And with the Cayman line-up we have seen, you can believe the 911 will get ample competition from the Cayman.
    Not just because it's a more affordable car - but simply because it's better.
    I wouldn't be surprised at all, if Porsche ended up having a Cayman-like line-up as their primary.

    I've never been a potential 911-buyer, simply because the rear-engine setup doesnt appeal to me. Furthermore the price diff here in Denmark is so ridiculous, there are no sane arguments left for buying a 911 over a Cayman or Boxster.

    I had hoped to buy the new Boxtser next year - but now I'm actually thinking har about getting the Cayman instead.
    Go figure

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    I'd be interested to learn about what non-Porsche competition exists (or will exist) for the Cayman.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    I'd be interested to learn about what non-Porsche competition exists (or will exist) for the Cayman.



    Comparing actual performance and subjective driver appeal:
    Nissan 350, Audi TT, Merc SLK, Corvette.
    If you take the brand magnetizm into the equation: None.

    My 2 cents

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    MikeN said:
    No, there are no valid statistics but if you have followed this particular Cayman list since the inception you can pretty much get an idea of what SOME people are thinking.

    I for one tend to agree with the "answer to no particular question" thinking.



    I have followed this cayman section since it opened, and have seen plenty of people say they want one and will be buying one. A lot of the people saying 'noone wants a cayman' are people that already have a decent porsche and probably wouldnt have been in the market for one anyway

    The question answered was a boxster coupe (despite what many here seem to think, not everyone wants a convertible) the price and the difference in power are just details that porsche set to try and make as much money as possible, something any business would do.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    I'd be interested to learn about what non-Porsche competition exists (or will exist) for the Cayman.



    Comparing actual performance and subjective driver appeal:
    Nissan 350, Audi TT, Merc SLK, Corvette.
    If you take the brand magnetizm into the equation: None.

    My 2 cents



    Add to that list.....BMW M3, Audi RS4, the up coming Infiniti Skyline (or whatever they call it), future BMW Z4 coupe, future Merc SLK coupe, lots of nice entries coming.

    As Dr. Phil said, some don't have the brand magnatism Porsche has.....but then again there are some people who won't buy a Porsche at all....die heart BMW fans, Corvette fans, etc. The segment is definitely heating up.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    Martin Tyler said:
    Quote:
    MikeN said:
    No, there are no valid statistics but if you have followed this particular Cayman list since the inception you can pretty much get an idea of what SOME people are thinking.

    I for one tend to agree with the "answer to no particular question" thinking.



    I have followed this cayman section since it opened, and have seen plenty of people say they want one and will be buying one.



    I could be one of them, deposit down since late '04.....but I'm not going to be a push-over just because it says "Porsche" on it. Fact is it will be a great performing car, but so will a lot of others for the same or less money.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Since my dealer (and other dealers I know over here in Germany) doesn't have a SINGLE Cayman S pre-order, I somehow think that the press gets a lot of "attention" from Porsche to make people actually think that the Cayman S is AT LEAST a 911 competitor. How to justify the higher price tag otherwise?



    Not a single pre order for a new Porsche model at german Porsche dealers??? That has to be a Porsche pre sales record

    I know that some US dealers only have 4-5 pre orders.

    Maybe they should have released a Cayman RS first and then
    the other versions. So far there is just not enough bang in the Cayman S to generate any real demand or customer love for it.

    Good luck to Porsches Cayman product people!

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    I don't find the mixed reaction to the Cayman all that surprising. If you want or own a Boxster you don't want a Cayman. If you want or have a 911 you certainly don't want to hear the appellation "mini-911" applied to a car junior to your current (prospective) object of desire. When the 986/996 cars were first introduced the appearance of a Boxster "coupe" would, IMHO, been a potentially serious problem for Porsche since these models were essentially identical from the windshield forward. There was no cross purpose to the 986 as a roadster and the 996 series in terms of marketing to new prospective customers. Porsche has since recovered financially, and it seems quite obvious that the 911 market is not likely to defect, within the marque at least. On the other hand there is a potential market for a "mini-911" among the "great unwashed", as there has been a market for the Porsche SUV, and this market is probably what Porsche hopes to tap into. There are numerous reasons why someone may not want a convertible and the lines of the Cayman, despite its lineage, appear to be fresh and interesting at least in print. If the cognoscenti frown on the Cayman as a vehicle for "poseurs and hairdressers" (monikers I've been introduced to through these pages), well Porsche probably won't care if they find themselves laughing on the way to the bank. In any case, the poseurs and the hairdressers provide the financial means for Porsche to provide the real men with GT3s, GT2s and Turbos. Time will tell, as always. I need to see the car in the steel and drive it before I would make any committment to purchase. By the way, I drove a 350SKL and was impressed by the engine but not by the build quality or interior design/materials. Audi TT simply doesn't appeal, ditto, 350Z. Wife has an Infiniti G35 and it is an impressive automobile but does not strike an emotional chord with me despite its competence. I've owned several BMWs and their technology has become inversely proportional to their style. The E46 M3 didn't feel like it had 330hp when I drove one several years ago. Z4 felt lighter and peppier than the M3, but is not easy on my eye. Chacun a son gout.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    I don't find the mixed reaction to the Cayman all that surprising. If you want or own a Boxster you don't want a Cayman. If you want or have a 911 you certainly don't want to hear the appellation "mini-911" applied to a car junior to your current (prospective) object of desire.



    Well this certainly does not apply to me. I own a Boxster S, and was previously thinking of a 997, but now that I have seen the Cayman, I will more likely get a Cayman than a 911.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Way I think you and I are in a relatively small minority. I had a 99 Boxster and despite the improvements would prefer a Cayman, based on what's available so far, anyway.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    Way I think you and I are in a relatively small minority. I had a 99 Boxster and despite the improvements would prefer a Cayman, based on what's available so far, anyway.



    You think so? I happen to know two other owners of Boxster S who has put a deposit down for the Cayman S. Maybe it is just a coincidence and we are indeed a minority. Don't know. But I do know a couple of my friends who are 330ci, TT and CLK owners who have all said that they would buy a Cayman that cost less than a Boxster. So I guess there is merit to the argument afterall.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Oh Boy! Just think of all the high school kids who will have to go nuts trying to get their minds around THAT idea (Cayman better than 911!).

    hey im still a high school kid!!

    They're the only ones who seriously read those mags, aren't they?


    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    There are a number of posters in this thread that sadden me a great deal, that I refuse to even take the time to quote.

    I may be biased (and of course, I am) because I own a 2004 911 Carrera Cabriolet C4S. Come on now guys... Cayman better than this? Or is this just a way to justify buying a Porsche with a nice design (all Porsches have nice designs) because of a cheaper price tag in order to say it is better than a 911...


    Yeah.. some of you hit a sore spot with me... why don't you try to say something nice about a Cayman without bashing a classic 911 Porsche that has been successful in the market for generations and is a hell of a nice Porsche too...

    PS. Regardless of my distaste of what I have read in this thread, I do happen to think the Cayman is a nice looking car and I have no disrespect for it's debut as well. As far as its success? Time will tell, but I will say one thing... we all already know the success the 911 has had.

    Hopefully, the Cayman will be just as nice looking on the road as all the other Porsche models that exist today and in the future.

    Re: MT headline: Porsche Cayman Better Than a 911!

    Quote:
    Topless9114S said:
    There are a number of posters in this thread that sadden me a great deal, that I refuse to even take the time to quote.

    I may be biased (and of course, I am) because I own a 2004 911 Carrera Cabriolet C4S. Come on now guys... Cayman better than this? Or is this just a way to justify buying a Porsche with a nice design (all Porsches have nice designs) because of a cheaper price tag in order to say it is better than a 911...


    Yeah.. some of you hit a sore spot with me... why don't you try to say something nice about a Cayman without bashing a classic 911 Porsche that has been successful in the market for generations and is a hell of a nice Porsche too...

    PS. Regardless of my distaste of what I have read in this thread, I do happen to think the Cayman is a nice looking car and I have no disrespect for it's debut as well. As far as its success? Time will tell, but I will say one thing... we all already know the success the 911 has had.

    Hopefully, the Cayman will be just as nice looking on the road as all the other Porsche models that exist today and in the future.



    Don't take it personally. Some of us have actually owned a 911 too and if we happen to think the Cayman is better suited to us (hence better in our minds) then it is our call to make. C4S is a damn nice car, and was actually considering buying one too! Just remember, everyone has their preference.

     
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