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    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5


    Smiley


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    acrobat:


    Smiley

    Thank you Acrobat. 

    Finally someone put the scan of the article.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    REALZEUS:

     Could it be just your small-ish town RC? I can't imagine such things happening in Berlin or Munich for example but then again I haven't visited Germany in a long time.

     

    In Hamburg, they started putting fire on luxury cars, Berlin is also well known for scratches, dents and punctured tires. Munich is much better in this regard but if you live in the poorer areas of the city...well... 

    The media started to blame the "rich" for everything. What most people over here don't understand is that "rich", by german state definition, starts at a net income of 250000 EUR single / 500000 EUR married per year as far as I remember. Most Porsche drivers, myself included, don't even come close to this. Unfortunately when people see a Porsche, they assume the driver is "rich".

    Yes, my town is more sensitive to expensive stuff but if you're living in an area with many families, this is even worse since most of them just bought their new home and are in debt up to their neck. Example: I got myself a X5 M as a family car, one of my neighbors got a VW T4 instead. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    RC:

    In Hamburg, they started putting fire on luxury cars, Berlin is also well known for scratches, dents and punctured tires. Munich is much better in this regard but if you live in the poorer areas of the city...well...


    There is a huge difference between these three cities. In Hamburg and, even more so, Berlin a significant anarchistic / leftist part of the population has done these things. A family friend just returned from a business trip to figure out that his brand new company car was deliberately set on fire on an airport parking lot, amongst five other cars. As far as I have read, these things have happened in North America as well, I remember some political groups specifically setting SUVs on fire, so I won´t limit it to Germany.

    All damage on my car has been done by other people, there is not a single scratch that I did to it. I learn to live with it but it is sad to see that the effort and care you put into your belongings does not necessarily reflect on other people... Smiley


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    RC:
    Example: I got myself a X5 M as a family car, one of my neighbors got a VW T4 instead. Smiley

     

    Christian,

    some people see cars as 4 wheel vehicles to transport from A to B. I understand what you are trying to say but one of the Turkish richest man (who had more than approx. 2 billion USD when he died this year) was my father's client. In 2002, when I visited him with my father at his office, he was driving a 2001 VW Golf 1.6 auto with basic trim (at that time I had an E36 M3 coupe and just ordered E46 M3 Coupe and I was still studying at the university)

    This is an extreme example but some people doesn't care about cars, and some are not very interested.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    Trust me, most of my neighbors and other people I know care a lot about cars but they just can't afford better/faster ones. Don't forget that I live in Germany...there is nothing more important for Germans than their car...well...besides soccer maybe. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    Hımm, after reading part of the article (I can only understand part of it) Acrobat had just posted, I noticed 2 things:

    1) That tested Audi has ceramic brakes which are stronger than OEM steel ones, lighter and may help for track time. I was amazed how well M3 stopping power is on par with RS5 with ceramics.

    Audi also has Recaro Rennen sitz which are approx. 10-15 kg lighter than standart seats.

    2) M3 has almost all the heavy options: DKG, EDC, idrive/navi, 19" wheels and still weights around 1640 kg. Since 100-200 km/h time for M3 is 11 sec., we can expect around 15 sec time from M3 for 0-200 km/h. This is on par with 997.1 Carrera S/4S manual.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    RC:

    Trust me, most of my neighbors and other people I know care a lot about cars but they just can't afford better/faster ones. Don't forget that I live in Germany...there is nothing more important for Germans than their car...well...besides soccer maybe. 

    I know, what you are trying to say. Smiley

    I just want to give an extreme example. Because at that time I couldn't believe my eyes.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    The M3 Coupe will never do 0-200 kph in 15 seconds, impossible. Be happy if it does it in 16 seconds flat. The 997 Carrera S PDK does 0-200 kph in 14.2 seconds, this is the latest result I saw somewhere. BMW has apparently updated the DKG software to release some stress from the drivetrain. This could be the reason why the M3 does now 0-100 kph in 5 seconds.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    RC:

    The M3 Coupe will never do 0-200 kph in 15 seconds, impossible. Be happy if it does it in 16 seconds flat. The 997 Carrera S PDK does 0-200 kph in 14.2 seconds, this is the latest result I saw somewhere. BMW has apparently updated the DKG software to release some stress from the drivetrain. This could be the reason why the M3 does now 0-100 kph in 5 seconds.

    By saying around 15 sec. I mean 15,4-15,6 sec Smiley

    I hope they didn't take away bumm bumm upshift feel.

    I don't want to change gears as if I'm playing a video game.

    Even TTS had exhaust "poop" when I upshift.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    pride355:

    Even TTS had exhaust "poop" when I upshift.

     

    I really hope you meant 'pop'Smiley.


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    Thanx for scans Smiley


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    You're welcome. :)


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    Hello,

     

    i just took delivery of my new M3 DKG/EDC just 2 weeks ago and quickly completed the break-in miles to have the 250 km/h-limit corrected, get fresh motor-oil and rear-axle-diff-oil (? Hinterachsdifferential) ... and finally get green lights for revving the machine.

    So i took it to a small race-track ... the Michelin-Driving-Center in Groß-Dölln ... they have built a 3.3 km track just this year. I joined my Porsche-Buddies on this track-day and made first experiences with the M3 (Michelin Sport Cup+) and this is, what i noticed:

    1. The machine is a marvel ... it pulls very strong and i did not feel a significant lack in low-end torque ... it revs up very fast.

    2. I don't understand the DKG-logic yet ... when i approached a curve with 7000rpm, i hit the break and wanted to gear down in order to stay in the optimum torque/rpm range after the apex to get best acceleration again ... it simply felt as if the DKG refused to shift down as quickly as i would have expected ... it "geared in" very slowly with the feeling of a slipping clutch?! I had to apply the break once more to correct the speed because i could not use the  engine breaking effect. It is way too slow.

    3. The load change (Lastwechsel) while downshifting is very annoying ... if you try to adjust it via this special button in order to avoid it, it's getting slower in downshifting again ... so a no-win situation there?!

    4. Fuel consumption on the track exceeded that of my track-modified 993tt WLS2 by far.

    5. Breaks could be better ... start to fade, although i don't break to much ... hard and short without ABS action.

    6. Suspension setup is suitable in EDC-Sport mode ... provided much confidence, the car ist very predictable and quite easy to drive fast ... and if you wanna go fast you have to dectivate the ESP/DSC because it cuts the power you need to get out of the corners. Next time i will have to adjust tire pressure on track as the Cup+ tires lost grip after a few turns ... it was quite warm (close to 30°C) that day.

    So ... at the moment i am quite disappointed with the DKG for fast/pushy driving ... maybe something is not o.k, although my serviceman told me everything is o.k ... he said DKG does work like that to protect the engine/drivetrain ... but ... what the heck ... if i can't gear down while reducing speed in order to remain decent rpm for acceleration ???!!! It is said to be a sportscar.

    I am going to discuss that with the M-People ... or i will have to buy a Porsche again for race-track fun ;-)

    But it does an excellent job as a daily driver with decent space for my two little kids ... Autobahn is fun too ... a stock 996tt is faster in the lower speed ranges, but the M3 can catch up in the higher speed ranges ... in real life it is quite even.

    Maybe manual is the better choice for tracking the M3.

    Cheers

    Tom


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    Crash:
    pride355:

    Even TTS had exhaust "poop" when I upshift.

     

    I really hope you meant 'pop'Smiley.

    Opppssss Smiley Sure I did Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: Sport Auto Comparison Test: BMW M3 ZCP vs. Audi RS5

    Rookie:

    Hello,

     

    i just took delivery of my new M3 DKG/EDC just 2 weeks ago and quickly completed the break-in miles to have the 250 km/h-limit corrected, get fresh motor-oil and rear-axle-diff-oil (? Hinterachsdifferential) ... and finally get green lights for revving the machine.

    So i took it to a small race-track ... the Michelin-Driving-Center in Groß-Dölln ... they have built a 3.3 km track just this year. I joined my Porsche-Buddies on this track-day and made first experiences with the M3 (Michelin Sport Cup+) and this is, what i noticed:

    1. The machine is a marvel ... it pulls very strong and i did not feel a significant lack in low-end torque ... it revs up very fast.

    2. I don't understand the DKG-logic yet ... when i approached a curve with 7000rpm, i hit the break and wanted to gear down in order to stay in the optimum torque/rpm range after the apex to get best acceleration again ... it simply felt as if the DKG refused to shift down as quickly as i would have expected ... it "geared in" very slowly with the feeling of a slipping clutch?! I had to apply the break once more to correct the speed because i could not use the  engine breaking effect. It is way too slow.

    3. The load change (Lastwechsel) while downshifting is very annoying ... if you try to adjust it via this special button in order to avoid it, it's getting slower in downshifting again ... so a no-win situation there?!

    4. Fuel consumption on the track exceeded that of my track-modified 993tt WLS2 by far.

    5. Breaks could be better ... start to fade, although i don't break to much ... hard and short without ABS action.

    6. Suspension setup is suitable in EDC-Sport mode ... provided much confidence, the car ist very predictable and quite easy to drive fast ... and if you wanna go fast you have to dectivate the ESP/DSC because it cuts the power you need to get out of the corners. Next time i will have to adjust tire pressure on track as the Cup+ tires lost grip after a few turns ... it was quite warm (close to 30°C) that day.

    So ... at the moment i am quite disappointed with the DKG for fast/pushy driving ... maybe something is not o.k, although my serviceman told me everything is o.k ... he said DKG does work like that to protect the engine/drivetrain ... but ... what the heck ... if i can't gear down while reducing speed in order to remain decent rpm for acceleration ???!!! It is said to be a sportscar.

    I am going to discuss that with the M-People ... or i will have to buy a Porsche again for race-track fun ;-)

    But it does an excellent job as a daily driver with decent space for my two little kids ... Autobahn is fun too ... a stock 996tt is faster in the lower speed ranges, but the M3 can catch up in the higher speed ranges ... in real life it is quite even.

    Maybe manual is the better choice for tracking the M3.

    Cheers

    Tom

    Thank you for sharing the experience Tom Smiley That DKG thing sounds annoying. Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW (On ORDER)

    09 Audi TTS Coupe / 07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


     
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