Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    Gabriel343 said:
    The M5 lost 10 points to the 997 because of higher petrol use. The best driving machine seems to be the M5. Not really a surprise considering better performance figures and the fact that BMW still makes very good chassis for their cars. I still feel that a comparison between the two quite different cars isn't really very relevant, and it's probably also hard to compare them.

    The M5 also lost 5 points to the 997 because its top speed is limited to 250 km/h. We all know that most limited German cars can easily be delimited.




    Gabriel, PLEASE, the better driving machine is the M5??? For who? For my 80 years old father?
    The word "driving machine" includes the word driving. The BMW M5 is a great sports limousine, no doubt about it. But on twisty country roads, it is as much fun as my E55 AMG was. Autobahn? Well, up to 250 kph maybe and only if the full power is activated. Most drivers would probably use it with the 400 HP setting due to fuel consumption, at least here in Germany. And BMW cars can be easily delimited? BMW does not develop their cars for higher speeds and as far as I know, the test them only to speeds up to "true" 270 kph. The chassis, the tires, the whole car, even the engine and gearbox are not tested for higher speeds. I suppose you know what that means, don't you? Did you see any newer BMW cars really delimited in the past in Germany? The TÜV says no and it takes a lot of mods and relations for Tuners to get the certified to higher speeds. One reason why most Tuners stay with speeds below 270 kph. Alpina is no Tuner by the way, just in case you want to give me an example.

    What you also "forgot" to mention: the test has been done by a Autobild editor AND Nico Rosberg, a professional race driver and the son of the famous Keke Rosberg. And you forgot to mention that Nico Rosberg was heavily impressed by the 997 Carrera S, especially with traction, handling, engine sound and speed feel. What the editor liked about the M5 was power, comfort and interior/luggage room. If this is a driving machine by definition, you never drove a real sport car, my friend.

    And another thing you forgot to mention: ALL electronic drive assistents in the BMW M5 were TURNED OFF during this testdrive, otherwise the BMW M5 would have looked even more worse on the track. I'd say 95% of the M5 owners will regret turning off the drive aids because they wouldn't be able to control the excessive power anymore.

    And: the brake performance (you forgot that too, right? ). The 997 Carrera S comes over 2 meters earlier to a full stop from 100 kph to 0 kph than the BMW M5. I know most people (who don't have a clue about fast driving) don't care about brake performance but may I give you a little hint: whoever is able to brake later before a curve, usually reaches faster the curve and is faster out of the curve. On the track but also on the street, braking performance is a key factor.

    Last but not least, the "bling bling" factor (Kudos to Nick-nberry for introducing it ): two Autobild readers (a young couple) were invited to join the comparison test between the M5 and 997 Carrera S. Both elected the 997 Carrera S as their dream car, comment of the guy regarding the 997: this is something BMW can't offer.

    Gabriel, I suggest driving a Porsche from time to time, it might widen your horizon. I drove them all (not the new M5 yet ), even owned some and I'm still a Porsche customer.

    And as a last remark: the 997 Carrera S has been tested with PASM, imagine how delighted Nico Rosberg would have been with the 20 mm option incl. a limited slip diffrential. And the 997 GT3 is coming, the 997 Turbo is coming...what does BMW have to offer? An interesting price tag? Well, they know exactly they can't sell this thing for more. I'm sure the M5 is a great car, especially as a daily driver but since my E55 AMG ownership, I'm a "healed" person. No more sports limousine, no more compromise. If I want a sports car, I go for a real one. And if I want some comfort and power, I drive the Cayenne Turbo. I would love to see the BMW M5 on wet pavement and in winter time here in Bavaria.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Gabriel343 said:
    The M5 lost 10 points to the 997 because of higher petrol use. The best driving machine seems to be the M5. Not really a surprise considering better performance figures and the fact that BMW still makes very good chassis for their cars. I still feel that a comparison between the two quite different cars isn't really very relevant, and it's probably also hard to compare them.

    The M5 also lost 5 points to the 997 because its top speed is limited to 250 km/h. We all know that most limited German cars can easily be delimited.




    Gabriel, PLEASE, the better driving machine is the M5??? For who? For my 80 years old father?
    The word "driving machine" includes the word driving. The BMW M5 is a great sports limousine, no doubt about it. But on twisty country roads, it is as much fun as my E55 AMG was. Autobahn? Well, up to 250 kph maybe and only if the full power is activated. Most drivers would probably use it with the 400 HP setting due to fuel consumption, at least here in Germany. And BMW cars can be easily delimited? BMW does not develop their cars for higher speeds and as far as I know, the test them only to speeds up to "true" 270 kph. The chassis, the tires, the whole car, even the engine and gearbox are not tested for higher speeds. I suppose you know what that means, don't you? Did you see any newer BMW cars really delimited in the past in Germany? The TÜV says no and it takes a lot of mods and relations for Tuners to get the certified to higher speeds. One reason why most Tuners stay with speeds below 270 kph. Alpina is no Tuner by the way, just in case you want to give me an example.

    What you also "forgot" to mention: the test has been done by a Autobild editor AND Nico Rosberg, a professional race driver and the son of the famous Keke Rosberg. And you forgot to mention that Nico Rosberg was heavily impressed by the 997 Carrera S, especially with traction, handling, engine sound and speed feel. What the editor liked about the M5 was power, comfort and interior/luggage room. If this is a driving machine by definition, you never drove a real sport car, my friend.

    And another thing you forgot to mention: ALL electronic drive assistents in the BMW M5 were TURNED OFF during this testdrive, otherwise the BMW M5 would have looked even more worse on the track. I'd say 95% of the M5 owners will regret turning off the drive aids because they wouldn't be able to control the excessive power anymore.

    And: the brake performance (you forgot that too, right? ). The 997 Carrera S comes over 2 meters earlier to a full stop from 100 kph to 0 kph than the BMW M5. I know most people (who don't have a clue about fast driving) don't care about brake performance but may I give you a little hint: whoever is able to brake later before a curve, usually reaches faster the curve and is faster out of the curve. On the track but also on the street, braking performance is a key factor.

    Last but not least, the "bling bling" factor (Kudos to Nick-nberry for introducing it ): two Autobild readers (a young couple) were invited to join the comparison test between the M5 and 997 Carrera S. Both elected the 997 Carrera S as their dream car, comment of the guy regarding the 997: this is something BMW can't offer.

    Gabriel, I suggest driving a Porsche from time to time, it might widen your horizon. I drove them all (not the new M5 yet ), even owned some and I'm still a Porsche customer.

    And as a last remark: the 997 Carrera S has been tested with PASM, imagine how delighted Nico Rosberg would have been with the 20 mm option incl. a limited slip diffrential. And the 997 GT3 is coming, the 997 Turbo is coming...what does BMW have to offer? An interesting price tag? Well, they know exactly they can't sell this thing for more. I'm sure the M5 is a great car, especially as a daily driver but since my E55 AMG ownership, I'm a "healed" person. No more sports limousine, no more compromise. If I want a sports car, I go for a real one. And if I want some comfort and power, I drive the Cayenne Turbo. I would love to see the BMW M5 on wet pavement and in winter time here in Bavaria.



    RC: everyone of us can see what he/she likes to see. You prefer a Porsche and that's ok. I do have also two of them, but your comments on the M5 are wrong:

    1. when a M5 driver do not press the "power button" a 997 S driver could drive only with 3/4 of throttle. If he wants power press the button, where is the problem.

    2. delimiting speed limit is not so complicated, a lot of the M-cars a delimited

    3: electronics? my last two Porsche (Cayenne turbo and 996 tt) had a lot of electronic problems

    4: braking: compare the M5 brake with the Cayenne brake, why a Cayenne is so good and a M5 so bad. It is clear the weight.

    5: I drive every day a Porsche for years, but I find the M5 an impressive car (sure I have first to test drive to give a real impression). If my two boys would choose between a M5 and a 997 s, they would choose 997 s. If I could only have one car I would take the M5. Having a Cayenne and 911 is something different.
    We will have to wait for the new M6, this car is slighlty lighter and has deeper center of gravity then the M5.

    6: Also in a few days Sport Auto (19.11.04) will present M5 Supertest with Ring times. If the M5 is under 8 Min. what will you then say?

    Greetings

    AM

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    1. when a M5 driver do not press the "power button" a 997 S driver could drive only with 3/4 of throttle. If he wants power press the button, where is the problem.

    Did you have a closer look at the new M5? If so, where is that button?

    2. delimiting speed limit is not so complicated, a lot of the M-cars a delimited

    Streetlegal? Give examples please. To my knowledge, there is a warning notice from BMW regarding delimitations and this warning notice has been passed to german TUEV too.

    3: electronics? my last two Porsche (Cayenne turbo and 996 tt) had a lot of electronic problems

    I owned one of the first 996 Turbo delivered to customers in Germany and the first car delivered from my dealer back in 2000. No electronics problems whatsoever and to my knowledge, electronics problems were nothing common on the 996 Turbo. Did I mention that this car was heavily modified (H&R coilover kit, gearbox oil cooler, one mass flywheel, race clutch system, GT2 rims/tires, 543 HP kit from RS-Tuning fine-tuned to over 560 HP, sport exhaust system with high flow cats, etc.) and didn't have one single problem until I sold it? I just had a new gearbox at around 9000 km because the second gear was popping out, a common problem on the 996 Turbo. But it happened when the car was still stock. My Cayenne Turbo has now 12000 km, no electronics problems at all, just a faulty micro switch in the rear hatch window lock (twice). Electronics problems are not very common on the Cayenne, especially not on cars delivered starting with MY 2004 and newer.
    Ever heard of the 7 series electronics mess-up. I don't know one single 7 series owner who didn't have an electronics problem. Even our co-editor CR who uses a 7 series for business trips had various problems.


    4: braking: compare the M5 brake with the Cayenne brake, why a Cayenne is so good and a M5 so bad. It is clear the weight.

    Simply said, I don't care. If somebody compares a limousine with a sports car, I can't find "excuses" that the limousine is too heavy. The question here is if the M5 can provide as much sportiness and fun as the 997 Carrera S does and I say it can't. If weight is to blame for it, this isn't my problem.

    5: I drive every day a Porsche for years, but I find the M5 an impressive car (sure I have first to test drive to give a real impression). If my two boys would choose between a M5 and a 997 s, they would choose 997 s. If I could only have one car I would take the M5. Having a Cayenne and 911 is something different.
    We will have to wait for the new M6, this car is slighlty lighter and has deeper center of gravity then the M5.

    I owned a E55 AMG for 8 months and I was happy I got rid of it. Impressive straight line performance but boring, boring, boring. This is a car I would love to drive at 60 but not at 39. Even the Cayenne Turbo is more fun.

    6: Also in a few days Sport Auto (19.11.04) will present M5 Supertest with Ring times. If the M5 is under 8 Min. what will you then say?

    I already know the test result. And I would say: BMW played it dirty.

    One of the largest BMW dealers in Bavaria is a family friend and I hear a lot of interesting stuff from him.
    He will drive a M5 soon but his private car is a 535 td (that nice bi-Turbo Diesel).
    I owned a BMW M3 E36 for almost four years and I'm always invited to testdrive the latest BMW models. I refused a 1 series testdrive recently (not really interesting) but I'm gonna testdrive the new BMW M5 as soon as possible next year when it gets a little bit warmer.

    It really depends on what you want. I love sports cars. Not every car with more than 200 HP under the hood is a sports car. And I don't understand why Europeans are that fanatic about HP figures. American muscle cars had 300/400/500 and even more HP figures 20 years ago, especially the tuned ones. This was the time when we in Europe celebrated the first 110 HP VW Golf as a sports car.

    I am 39 now. I want to drive true sports cars as long as I can because starting with a certain age, I'll be a serious risk driving a Porsche 911, a risk for me and the others.
    My father, he did professional motorcycle racing at my age, drives now a used 125 HP Audi A3 with Automatic which belonged to my wife. A few years ago, he was driving more sporty cars, especially limousines. His last car was a Mercedes 560 SEL. He is 80 now and he knows when it is time to stop.

    I'm not 60 and I'm not 80. I want to drive cars for fun. If I would drive a car for transport purposes only, I'd end up in a Mercedes C-class or BMW 5-series. No, thanks.

    BTW: what about the winter tire thing and your "best" PZ in Germany?

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    RC said:American muscle cars had 300/400/500 and even more HP figures 20 years ago, especially the tuned ones. This was the time when we in Europe celebrated the first 110 HP VW Golf as a sports car.


    The AutoUnion type C from 1936 had 520bhp, and could smoke the tires at 150mph. This was just a bit earlier than the 110hp golf

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    'Most drivers would probably use it with the 400 HP setting due to fuel consumption, at least here in Germany.'
    RC, you are kidding right. What is the point of buying a 90,000 Euro car and then trying to save 1 or 2 liters of gas/100 kms. For 20000 kms/year 2 liters savings means around 500 Euro which is nothing compared to costs associated to ownership of such a car (depreciation,insurance,tires,...).Think you are confusing 525d and M5 customers.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Hey RC! I admire this forum and always read your posts because you are experienced, detailed and fair. You do sometimes talk about driving different cars when "you are 60", and I just wanted to give you some hope from a guy who is 62. Having owned 12 Porsches (and raced semi-pro for several years in the 70's), I got to take up for us old folks a bit. I am probably a better driver now than I ever was (helped by newer cars--just with better judgment and less road rage and my children's image in my mind when I am tempted to race on the street. Being sixty two is great, and my Porsche enthusiasm is greater than ever (with my 580 fwhp TT and two beatiful 356s), and I know yours will be too. I really doubt if the Porsche dream, which hit me in 1965, will ever get old for me. And one final thought--don't be surprised if one day soon, in addition to your powerful cars, you find yourself in love with a 356 cabriolet. Think 997 TT, powerkit Cayenne Turbo, and a 1964 SC Cabriolet--now that's a combination...

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Sydney, I didn't mean to offend anybody, sorry. I'm just looking at my 80 year old father who was a car nut and professional motorcycle driver at 35, this is actually where he met my mother when he broke an arm. Since around age 56-58 (I don't remember), he really lost his passion for nice cars. His last powerful car was a Mercedes 560 SEL and only because I made him buy it. He loved the car for longer trips but unfortunately he did only two longer trips during the whole ownership of that car. Since then, he is driving a BMW with 129 HP and an Audi with 125 HP. And he couldn't care less about cars.
    I know he is pretty proud of my cars, he always tells his friends but when we talk, he always accuses me of throwing out money. Especially now, when he saw my 997 Carrera S parked in the rear of the garage inside the storage room, he was pretty upset. Why do I need a sportscar for a few months in the year, he asked me. I tried to explain but no chance. He even doesn't understand the Cayenne anymore, in his opinion a little hatchback or station wagon would be sufficient for a family with two kids.

    I hope I won't loose my passion that much, it is pretty sad. And my father is mentally at a 95% level, just the usual symptons for his age but no Alzheimer, no dementia, nothing of this kind. Thanks god.

    Personally, I see me at age 60 in a 911 (not Turbo) or maybe in a sophisticated high tech Porsche limousine.
    I really don't know. I'm 39 years old now and most people who know me say that I'm still a little kid. And although I don't think they mean it as a compliment, I see it that way. I love playing with the kids, I love amusement parks and I love my cars. I can't see anything wrong with that.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Gabriel, PLEASE, the better driving machine is the M5??? For who? For my 80 years old father?



    RC, I think Gabriel is not fluent in German. He might therefore have misinterpreted the autobild test...

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    2. delimiting speed limit is not so complicated, a lot of the M-cars a delimited




    I definitively agree with RC on that point. I would never feel comfortable in a delimited M5 at high speeds. This product is not developed for speeds above 250km/h.

    It is unwise to pass the speed threshold imposed by BMW. They probably know why a delimited version is not beeing offered as in the M3 CSL case...

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    3: electronics? my last two Porsche (Cayenne turbo and 996 tt) had a lot of electronic problems




    Which electronic problems did you encounter?

    The 5 series is prone to electronic problems. The 545i of a client of mine suddenly turned off its engine at a speed of 140km/h. Obviously, neither the steering nor the brakes worked properly after that. He was lucky to bring the car to a stop safely. I would not like this to happen in a M5 at 250km/h

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    then you are one of the lucky few who had no electronics problems with their 996...

    I had to take my 996 in 4 times for the same air bag light. Then it turned into a seat belt chime that would go on when you would move around in your seat. The check engine light would come on every month for a good solid year... A couple bad oxygen sensors and short-circuits later... sheesh... even my rep told me they were having lots of electronics problems. Lucky you.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    2. delimiting speed limit is not so complicated, a lot of the M-cars a delimited




    I definitively agree with RC on that point. I would never feel comfortable in a delimited M5 at high speeds. This product is not developed for speeds above 250km/h.

    It is unwise to pass the speed threshold imposed by BMW. They probably know why a delimited version is not beeing offered as in the M3 CSL case...



    That's not true! One of my school friend is Ph.D. and is working for BMW FIZ. The car is for sure developed for their maximum speed. They even have discussed to limit it to 280 or (for a short time) discussed 300 km/h.

    Everyone saying that the car is only developed for 250 km/h isn't good informed.

    Greetings

    AM

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    I don't care if the M5 is fast it's still way ugly!

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    2. delimiting speed limit is not so complicated, a lot of the M-cars a delimited




    I definitively agree with RC on that point. I would never feel comfortable in a delimited M5 at high speeds. This product is not developed for speeds above 250km/h.

    It is unwise to pass the speed threshold imposed by BMW. They probably know why a delimited version is not beeing offered as in the M3 CSL case...



    That's not true! One of my school friend is Ph.D. and is working for BMW FIZ. The car is for sure developed for their maximum speed. They even have discussed to limit it to 280 or (for a short time) discussed 300 km/h.

    Everyone saying that the car is only developed for 250 km/h isn't good informed.

    Greetings

    AM



    So why don't they offer an optional top speed raise?
    Development for speeds over 270 creates additional cost for them, one reason why there is no need to do that.

    Did BMW test aerodynamics at 300 kph? Did they test the fuel pump performance at that speed? The injection system? Oil distribution, operation temperatures, cooling system efficiency, etc.? I doubt it.

    BTW: I hope your friend at BMW FIZ is more knowledgable regarding the speed limiter than your Porsche Zentrum regarding winter wheels.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Which electronic problems did you encounter?

    The 5 series is prone to electronic problems. The 545i of a client of mine suddenly turned off its engine at a speed of 140km/h. Obviously, neither the steering nor the brakes worked properly after that. He was lucky to bring the car to a stop safely. I would not like this to happen in a M5 at 250km/h



    Only one case and you call the E60 is "VERY" unreliable??? Our 545i has never gone wrong since we bought it, so does that mean E60 is a solid reliable car??

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    That's not true! One of my school friend is Ph.D. and is working for BMW FIZ. The car is for sure developed for their maximum speed. They even have discussed to limit it to 280 or (for a short time) discussed 300 km/h.

    Everyone saying that the car is only developed for 250 km/h isn't good informed.




    The fact that they discussed it for a short time and decided against it is as much information as I'd need if I was looking for a car capable of Autobahn speeds of 280 to 300 km/h!

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    2. delimiting speed limit is not so complicated, a lot of the M-cars a delimited




    I definitively agree with RC on that point. I would never feel comfortable in a delimited M5 at high speeds. This product is not developed for speeds above 250km/h.

    It is unwise to pass the speed threshold imposed by BMW. They probably know why a delimited version is not beeing offered as in the M3 CSL case...



    That's not true! One of my school friend is Ph.D. and is working for BMW FIZ. The car is for sure developed for their maximum speed. They even have discussed to limit it to 280 or (for a short time) discussed 300 km/h.

    Everyone saying that the car is only developed for 250 km/h isn't good informed.

    Greetings

    AM



    So why don't they offer an optional top speed raise?
    Development for speeds over 270 creates additional cost for them, one reason why there is no need to do that.

    Did BMW test aerodynamics at 300 kph? Did they test the fuel pump performance at that speed? The injection system? Oil distribution, operation temperatures, cooling system efficiency, etc.? I doubt it.

    BTW: I hope your friend at BMW FIZ is more knowledgable regarding the speed limiter than your Porsche Zentrum regarding winter wheels.



    RC, it is hard to discuss with you. You know everything better then all the rest. You know better what is inside my car (regarding my winter tires and ABE), you know better what is BMW doing and what not. So probbaly you should change this forum to a monologue. That way you will inform us lamers.

    Greetings

    AM

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    RC, it is hard to discuss with you. You know everything better then all the rest. You know better what is inside my car (regarding my winter tires and ABE), you know better what is BMW doing and what not. So probbaly you should change this forum to a monologue. That way you will inform us lamers.

    Greetings

    AM



    I don't know it all and what I don't know, I post as a question, rumour, gossip, etc. And sometimes I'm wrong too, this is when I use the word "sorry" and I usually correct my mistakes. But what I know, I post as a fact. Due to my "work" here, I get to know people, visit interesting places, etc. Otherwise it would be impossible to run this forum.
    ABE for your winter wheel setup? Would you be so kind to post the content of that ABE? I would also be interested who issued that ABE? For those who don't know what ABE means, it means: Allgemeine Betriebs Erlaubnis, this means there is a general approval for that certain setup and there is no need to get an additional approval from german TUEV, the technical approval authoroty for mods here in Germany.
    Regarding BMW: being the owner of one of largest dealerships in Bavaria, our family friend knows a lot of things. Of course he wouldn't tell me everything (he knows about this forum) but there are certain things which are no problem. I find it funny that you "attack" me based on your personal ego problems. You don't like what I say, fine. I spend hours every day to talk to various people, gather information and post here, I don't do that because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.
    And this "my friend, your friend" thing is ridiculous. Maybe your friend is wrong, maybe he just told you that typical internal FIZ gossip, maybe you just got it wrong, there are so many possibilities. And I find it funny when I tell you about the problem with your winter wheel setup and your answer is that your Porsche Zentrum is one of the most reputable in Germany and they wouldn't give you a wrong information. C'mon mumbasic, you're a grown up man and you should know better. This is a business world out there and some people would even sell their mother to be a winner.

    That said, you don't have to agree with me and you can have whatever opinion you want to have. But please, relax and present FACTS. Posting the ABE you mentioned would be nice. I would even apologize to you if true.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    RC,

    buying an AMG-Mercedes and complaining afterwards about the bad steering/suspension setup makes me wonder if you ever drove that car before. I honestly cannot understand your praise about the ML55 - I'd never have bought such a car since the only impressive thing about it is the engine!

    Mercedes models aren't and have never been famous for their driver-rewarding feel!

    Oh, and in case you want to know:
    I have driven these cars as well!


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 6:36 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    572812 1306
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/23/22 1:43 PM
    Rossi
    222143 1179
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/19/22 4:21 PM
    watt
    111429 968
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/1/22 7:14 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    108032 405
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 1/3/22 7:55 AM
    Rossi
    89239 531
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 1/15/22 10:41 PM
    watt
    31403 1
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/5/21 7:04 PM
    Topspeed
    511670 3587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 9/28/21 3:25 AM
    WhoopsyM
    427115 3507
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
    SSO.
    423990 3954
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/17/21 5:18 PM
    Rossi
    387580 3256
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 2/1/22 9:49 AM
    RCA
    364531 2655
    Porsche 992 GT3 5/13/22 3:48 PM
    Grant
    346839 3536
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/29/21 1:59 AM
    watt
    289276 1587
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 2/10/22 9:08 PM
    Topspeed
    137388 772
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 4/25/22 7:26 PM
    bluelines
    134522 1388
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    110640 209
    AMG AMG GT R 3/13/22 8:52 PM
    spudgun
    109655 834
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/22 3:29 PM
    Enmanuel
    107332 709
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 5/19/22 5:11 PM
    Leawood911
    92444 1644
    Porsche GT4RS 5/19/22 6:02 PM
    GaussM
    83412 935
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
    Leawood911
    75798 1590
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/22 9:24 PM
    blueflame
    74742 520
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 12/15/21 8:04 PM
    Topspeed
    70135 533
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
    Topspeed
    61605 409
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/4/22 7:10 AM
    GnilM
    54497 472
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 7/21/21 6:22 PM
    Topspeed
    53923 592
    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 10/16/21 1:07 PM
    Pentium
    53843 719
    Others Corvette C8 11/8/21 8:04 PM
    Topspeed
    49793 442
    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
    Grant
    26484 640
    AMG AMG plotting new SLR with hybrid power for 2018 launch 2/22/22 2:34 PM
    Topspeed
    24126 275
    224 items found, displaying 1 to 30.