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    EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

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    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

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    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Thanks Atlantis!

    I know some people are not going to understand this article...

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Thanks so much, you just saved me $10!

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Thanks Atlantis!

    I know some people are not going to understand this article...



    Did you understand what Simon Draper wrote? EVO is a European magazine and they will NEVER repeat NEVER find a US car worthy. They panned the Z06 on what? Lack of tactility? What that means is we can't find anything objective to find fault so we will rely on subjectivity.

    Not at all surprising.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    ..I know some people are not going to understand this article...



    Enough said.. As you've said Carlos, they still didn't understand.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    EVO is a European magazine and they will NEVER repeat NEVER find a US car worthy. They panned the Z06 on what? Lack of tactility? What that means is we can't find anything objective to find fault so we will rely on subjectivity.

    Not at all surprising.



    Please refer to EVO #87 (two issues ago), wherein the Ford GT (conceived and built in Dearborn, Michigan) was voted EVO Car of the Year based on subjective rankings.

    Adhering to your own argument about objectivity over subjectivity, in that same comparison test, the Gallardo SE (4th overall) should have finished ahead of your Ferrari F430 (2nd overall) based on their respective Nordschleife laptimes. Endless debate notwithstanding, that is probably the closest thing in existence to an "objective" all-around performance benchmark.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    As a practical sports car the Corvette makes sense. Its comfortable, has a lot of room inside, gets good gas mileage, is staggeringly quick and is simple to maintain.
    It is also pretty ruggedly constructed whereas its competitors are fragile.

    Feeling wise it is not a scalpel, its a broadsword. Some of that is due to its runflat tires. Michelin Sport Pilots have
    become available for it just recently. Those might give better turn in and feed back.

    But any front engine 7 liter sports car will never have the immediacey of steering response of a mid engine or rear engine car.

    Based upon luggage space and top speed the Corvette would have gotten 6 stars.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    What that means is we can't find anything objective to find fault so we will rely on subjectivity.

    Not at all surprising.



    Spoken by the guy who, when he can't find any objective or subjective grounds for criticism, just falls back on unsupported irrational prejudice.

    You gotta just love it.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    ha said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    ..I know some people are not going to understand this article...



    Enough said.. As you've said Carlos, they still didn't understand.



    LOL

    EVO is not a magazine for boulevard cruisers or stop-light grand prix racers... what EVO looks for and values in a car is different. Thats why such an artile that dives into concepts as the driving dinamics of the cars, the engine's power delivery, the braking, the feel "manual" boxes, the steering feedback, etc instead of paper figures, these are beyond them and maybe wouldn't make sense to them.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    I thought the article was excellent. They gave the Z06 a fair shake and were more than impressed by its performance. Just as importantly, they made an effort to comment on the traits Carlos has mentioned. These, afterall, are the main qualities of a true driver's car.

    Nick,
    Why shouldn't they comment on the Z06 in such a way? The article merely confirms that the Z06 gives the best peformance per dollar. That it falls short in subjective feel should not be overlooked and is something even American mags are saying. These traits are very important. In the presence of the Noble, Lotus, and RS, it's no surprise the Z06 feels a bit numb.

    - Justin

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    When I posted my comments I was well aware of the EVO COTY. However read the article closely and one comes away with the feeling that they won by default (frequent references to Porsche always a past winner) and the need to find something else. Additionally, they characterize the Ford GT more as European designed car though built in US.

    Justin and the rest of you, I do not have a problem with awarding points for subjective feel. I do have a problem when the article spends several hundred words extolling the virtues of the car and then concluding it falls flat on its face. For an example, read their language regarding the RS and then how they bail the car out with references about you just need to adjust your driving style to enjoy the car. Why not concluded with the Z06? I will tell you why. Because the Z06 will run circles around most if not all European sport cars at a fraction of their price.

    Please do not tell me magazine's are not biased. Auto Sport with Von Saurma can call Porsche and tell them to deliver 5 997 TT's for testing and Porsche will comply in a nanosecond. Why? Because first, probably the cars will have been juiced at the factory and second, Von saurma will make the numbers look good in any way he can.

    It is how things work and particularly so in car testing. Just look at the European response to the Z06 Ring time.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Oh boy nick, is you obsesion eating you up inside that bad to the point of paranoia?

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Unbelievable. Yes, it has to be a Euro conspiracy. We as Americans aren't paranoid, we really are persecuted.....

    But wait a minute, what about THIS ARTICLE in one of our own magazines, Car & Driver? Please refer to the 6th paragraph on that webpage, which corroborates what EVO said. So much for your European bias...

    I used to own the previous generation C5 Z06. Even though I could lap Streets of Willow racetrack several seconds per lap quicker than in my NSX (yes, I drive my cars as they were intended, not just to get Starbucks in La Jolla), I never considered it as enjoyable to drive as the latter. I own neither car now, but when I look back on both, I only regret selling the NSX.

    Finally, turning your own flawed and inconsistent argument against you, what if the EVO article had been a comparison of the new Z06 vs. your beloved F430? EVO loves the F430 for it's communicative chassis, yet the Z06 will destroy it at the 'Ring. No doubt EVO would choose the Ferrari over the Corvette, and no doubt you would change your tune and wholeheartedly agree.


    If you genuinely believe what you're saying, then put your money where your mouth is and sell your F430 to get a new Z06.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Thats what we call here "putting the dots over the i's"

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    Bulldozer27 said:
    (yes, I drive my cars as they were intended, not just to get Starbucks in La Jolla), I never considered it as enjoyable to drive as the latter. I own neither car now, but when I look back on both, I only regret selling the NSX.

    Finally, turning your own flawed and inconsistent argument against you, what if the EVO article had been a comparison of the new Z06 vs. your beloved F430? EVO loves the F430 for it's communicative chassis, yet the Z06 will destroy it at the 'Ring. No doubt EVO would choose the Ferrari over the Corvette, and no doubt you would change your tune and wholeheartedly agree.


    If you genuinely believe what you're saying, then put your money where your mouth is and sell your F430 to get a new Z06.


    If it were not for the fact that you live in Sandy Eggo, whereas Nick lives in San Diego, I'd be inclined to think that you might know Nick personally.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Thats what we call here "putting the dots over the i's"




    Here are my dots over the "i's".

    The article took three European hardcore track cars and tried to compare it to a US everday car. In order to find fault they changed the criteria in judging the various cars. Since they are track cars the only measurement is PERFORMANCE ! Nothing else matters. Yet they changed the rules and here is the classic quote;

    While it has grunt, grip and stopping power to keep pace or even SET THE PACE WITHOUT DIGGING DEEP, it's this lack of tactility, its inability to engage you means, it never truly delivers those genuine moments of inspiration that define the others.

    WTF In other words, track cars can be slow but as long as they inspire it is better than the winner. Tell that to Schumacher, Alfonso and other performance car drivers.

    Bulldozer, if the criteria is performance and the 430 was built specifically for track work, then I would admit the Z06 is clearly superior. However, if we were going to compare the Z06 as an all around sport car to a 430 then in my and most other views the 430 is superior because of a number of other reasons not related to performance. If you want tactility go and buy a Miata, Boxster Cayman, 350Z or Honda 2000.

    I hope this provides many of you with a modicum of enlightenment.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    yes, this clearly brings me back to my original premonitory statement at the very beginning of the thread... "I know some people are not going to understand this article..."

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    yes, this clearly brings me back to my original premonitory statement at the very beginning of the thread... "I know some people are not going to understand this article..."



    And apparently some people don't understand trackday cars in general.

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    Interesting Nick! I think there is confusion over race cars vs. toys. I disagree that these European cars have been beaten at their own game. Speed is not the absolute criterion. Rather, entertainment value is most precious when driving backroads and certainly at the track when you are not racing others. If part of your entertainment means going faster than everyone else for less money, than perhaps the Z06 works best. No doubt that performance is a large part of the entertainment factor. At the track, where the car's full performance can be exploited, it's possible that these traits will be overlooked in favor of raw performance.

    To me, the Z06's lack of tactility, relative to the other three, betrays the fundamental purpose of such a toy. Now of course, they are all shades of grey compared to real race cars. Not sure that I buy into Evo using this as a scapegoat. If the purpose was to win SCCA time trials or NASA events, then it becomes more clear.

    Simon Draper's comments are most interesting. Loves the Z06 (has one himself), but somehow finds the Exige the most fun to drive on backroads where neither car can be fully exploited.

    Now let's see if they have a comparison at the track. I suspect that professionals, who have better sensitivity to a car's feedback, will have less complaints in this area.

    - Justin

    Re: EVO: Z06 vs Exige 240 vs M400 vs GT3RS Article Scans

    What Americans do today,Europeans did it 15 years ago and that is building car's that only have to be fast.
    For example the Ferrari F40,Omega Lotus or Porsche GT1.Compare it to comparable cars of today and you'll notice that there isn't a big difference in performance(handling and straight line performance).But if you compare it to cars of the 70's,i think there's a HUGE difference.

    European manufacturers realized that the cars are driven by normal people that don't have the skills of racing drivers,that don't go on a race track very often and that the roads aren't as flat as a pool table.So they tried to make the car easy to drive but at the cost of speed.

    That's why the Ford GT is a very good car.The lap time on the Nurburgring was very good but it could be better compared to the Pagani.What makes it good is that it gives the driver confidence.In the Sport Auto test they said it more than once.The problem of nowadays is that the cars are too easy to drive...

    The reaction of Europeans when they saw the Nurburgring lap time was normal because it was the first time a manufacturer officially claims a exact lap time and that curiously was 0,01 seconds faster than the GT3 RS.Porsche claims a lap time in the 7:50's range for the 997 Turbo.Porsche does their PR things with the official lap time of 7:32 and not the rumoured 7:28.
    Now,if was responsible for the PR of Porsche i would simply claim a 7:40 for the 997 Turbo because absolutely no one that believes in the 7:42 lap time could say that it's not true.

     
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