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    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    I'm also worried about the simple gentleman's aspect of the class/series.  The Ford GT was created with waivers from the ACO and FIA and they obviously sandbagged in order to get a favorable BoP.  With this GT and Porsche running a bastardized 911, I can easily see this turning into the late 90s GT1 class all over again, complete with a big spending war.


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Adam R:

     With this GT and Porsche running a bastardized 911, I can easily see this turning into the late 90s GT1 class all over again, complete with a big spending war.





    Perfect!
    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Adam R:

    I'm also worried about the simple gentleman's aspect of the class/series.  The Ford GT was created with waivers from the ACO and FIA and they obviously sandbagged in order to get a favorable BoP.  With this GT and Porsche running a bastardized 911, I can easily see this turning into the late 90s GT1 class all over again, complete with a big spending war.

    I think the regulators have slowly been painting themselves into a corner with the GTE regulations (and the trend is starting to spread to LMP1). The whole BoP fiasco is a mess, and unless they sort that out quickly, you may find some of the manufacturers loosing interest because they will feel that it is the BoP that determines the winner and not the engineering behind their cars.

    Contrary to popular belief (and here Futch will most likely not agree) Manufacturers are the back bone of any good professional series such as the WEC. Without Porsche, Audi ,Toyota, Ferrari (GTE) , and Chevrolet, there simply would be no WEC (as we know it).

    The Fords will never race in GTE-AM (at least not in the foreseeable future) and I wonder if the "bastardised"  911 will ever race in that class too.

    Spending wars and cost control:  I am very, very wary of regulators regulating costs. They have a nasty habit of regulating costs when it comes to performance enhancements, but have no issue what-so- ever in allowing exorbitant cost increases when it comes to things that they think that they can control. (i.e safety, slowing the cars, etc). An example of this can be seen when they instituted the Fuel-Flow meters (LMP1). Rumors suggested that it resulted in estimated costs of  about $100K per car (This included not just the $4,5K for the flow meter itself, but also all the engine work and testing that was required in order to guarantee  constant fuel flow). Now whilst that sum is not really that significant , it is still money, and it is still coming out of budgets. Constant change of regulations (which they love to do) also contributes (massively) to skyrocketing costs.

    I'm a supply-side guy: My take on this is that manufacturers will always spend what they can afford. It really should not be up to the regulator to decide how much should or should not be spent by each competitor. Obviously  a balance must be found and common sense (a lot less common than is often thought)  should prevail, but from a philosophical stand point; I'm happier when that "balance" is slightly more "balanced" toward the side of freedom.


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Great analysis! kiss


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    I have just read an interesting press report, key points are the following:

    1. FIA is exploring the possibility of a GT car world championship. Sprint races, not long distance. But: GT world championship 2010-12 based on privateer teams failed peviously because of cost issues, need to get buy-in from manufacturers as well . 

    2. Prerequisite: convergence between current "global" GT3 class (with national championships) targeted at privateers and GTE/GTLM class dominated by manufacturers. "Convergence talks" between the 2 GT classes among manufacturers to be restarted, but those failed previously in 2014. Many, perhaps too many, cooks stirring the pot...

    3. Convergence could be based on Equivalence of Technology (EoT), rather than old-style BoP and Waivers, just like in LMP1 currently. New fangled tech solutions make effective anti-cheating monitoring possible.  


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    In time-honored tradition, slightly off topic...

    Porsche ran an ad in recent German car mag editions only featuring a picture the No 5 top Toyota LMP1 car which led the race until the penultimate lap, and the text, loosely translated, said:

    "We fought each other hard for 24 hours. We ran neck-and-neck for 24 hours. You earned our lasting respect."

    "Porsche won the 24 hours of LeMans and thanks Toyota for an epic battle."

    I thought that this a is a classy way to acknowledge Toyota strong showing.


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Yes, that was the first press release from Porsche right after they won Le Mans. 

    Screen Shot 2016-07-04 at 6.10.01 AM.png

     


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    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    More BoP adjustment for the Ford GT

    http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/imsa-makes-gtlm-gtd-bop-changes-ahead-of-ctmp/


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    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Whoopsy:

    More BoP adjustment for the Ford GT

    http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/imsa-makes-gtlm-gtd-bop-changes-ahead-of-ctmp/

    I had thought IMSA would have done this after seeing the Ford GT times at Le Mans. 


    --

    2014 Porsche 991 C4S Black with Sports Design Package,  2013 Porsche Cayenne Dark Blue Metallic, New York


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    what a disgrace - first they let the "Newcomers" win in LeMans and then correct the BOP.....wow.....the public is sold stupid......Motorsport is now just Marketing everywhere......truly sad


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Farcical last minute tampering


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    BjoernB:

    what a disgrace - first they let the "Newcomers" win in LeMans and then correct the BOP.....wow.....the public is sold stupid......Motorsport is now just Marketing everywhere......truly sad

    The BOP adjustment was for the IMSA championship in America. LeMans is governed by FIA and ACO as it is part of the WEC. Each series has their own BOP and sometimes even certain waivers are given here, but not there. E.g. Porsche was allowed to modify their Aero for IMSA only in order to gain performance last year.

    The US BOP system relies on data and live-time data tracking, so they are able to see if a car - be it leader or last - is driving on the limit or is sandbagging by not reving to the max., etc. The FIA BOP is centered around a performance test with an independent driver at Michelin's Ladoux test track. Additionally they rely on data as well, but not in the way IMSA does.

    This adjusment is the reaction on a dominant 1-2 victory by Ford. Something that was not done in WEC after Ferrari won both opening rounds of the WEC lap(s) ahead of the competition. Somehow both IMSA and FIA yet struggle to balance the turbo cars right (which is done by boost pressure limitations), though IMSA did a better job there as well IMO. The Ford specifically might be a hard one to balance right though, as it is new, struggled both at Daytona and Sebring with reliability, therefore was not able to show full performance over a longer distance. Additionally the Ford has a smaller frontal area and is designed to have lower drag than it's competitors - something that makes the balancing process even harder.

    To put some salt in the wounds, there is one remaining way to sandbag: Use actual sandbags. Your driver pushes 100%, the fuel consumption is as calculated, you just are slower than your real pace is, in order to keep an advantage for a race you want to win. Just hide the sandbags right. I don't want to accuse Ford or anybody else of doing that, but the possibility exists.


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    the fact that they build "prototypes" with a very small production number attached is already questionable in my book.....


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Rotbart:
    BjoernB:

    what a disgrace - first they let the "Newcomers" win in LeMans and then correct the BOP.....wow.....the public is sold stupid......Motorsport is now just Marketing everywhere......truly sad

    To put some salt in the wounds, there is one remaining way to sandbag: Use actual sandbags. Your driver pushes 100%, the fuel consumption is as calculated, you just are slower than your real pace is, in order to keep an advantage for a race you want to win. Just hide the sandbags right. I don't want to accuse Ford or anybody else of doing that, but the possibility exists.

    Easy to fix that. Weigh ins before and after a random practice, all qualifying and the race itself. You'll still get people doing the "piece of lead done up to look like a roll of duct tape and 'left by mistake on the seat'" or the "40lbs helmet 'left by mistake hanging on a hook"' (both of which have been done and caught) but it's harder.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Just leave it here. Joy for eyes  http://porschevisiongt.com/


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    Very nice!  The original is one of my favorites and this one definitely keeps the old design cues.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

    angel


     
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