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    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    The best quote so far:"The AMV8 can be better for you and the 997S better for me at the same time. So congrats on your order and enjoy it" That's what it all comes down to in these comparisons,since 97% of us intend to use these things on regular roads. Whether they are 997 vs Corvette or whatever. Being from Michigan, where there is a marked lack of foreign cars due to a large (but dwindeling number) of auto factories, I already get the Z06 is better than the 997S arguement from my co-workers. My response is always the same...then buy a Z06 if that's what you prefer. No doubt about it, they're all great cars, all for different reasons. I wish I could have one of each.

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    I just cant get this image thing out of my head because when someone mentions AM I automatically think ""Sport Coupe"" for the old man ( 50 + ) and the same for the Jag,s , sorry !!..

    Jmo..

    throt..

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    Damian said:
    Could we expect the same dismissive prejudicial approach of Clarkson!?




    Can anyone explain why JC has this dismissive prejuditial attitude to Porsche? I like Clarkson - a lot, I think his contribution to motoring entertainment is immense. But why the downer on any P car.

    It can't be because it's German - he's owned a few Mercs.
    Even in the Isle of Man test: 997S v M6 v AM V8, he didn't even drive the 997, at least not on camera. Yet still argued for the Aston! The other two, who did, went out and ordered Porsches.

    Perhaps he's been refused a discount - I'd really like to know the reason.

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    John H said:
    Perhaps he's been refused a discount - I'd really like to know the reason.



    Lol , thats a good bet..

    throt..

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    throt said:
    I just cant get this image thing out of my head because when someone mentions AM I automatically think ""Sport Coupe"" for the old man ( 50 + ) and the same for the Jag,s , sorry !!..

    Jmo..

    throt..



    I beg to differ. I agree with your comments on the Jag but not with Aston Martin. AM is a "gentleman's" sportscar, equally at home whether you're dressed in jeans or black tie. How many "old man's" cars have 12 cylinders and look like automotive pornography?

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    You do realise that Porcas have the same image in the UK, dont you? Combined with the late 80's yuppie tarnish.

    At the end of the day, in the Porca vs v8 argument the speed and cost issues should be ignored. Else you would be in something cheaper and faster still.

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    John H said:
    Can anyone explain why JC has this dismissive prejuditial attitude to Porsche? I like Clarkson - a lot, I think his contribution to motoring entertainment is immense. But why the downer on any P car.

    Perhaps he's been refused a discount - I'd really like to know the reason.



    Why do you care? You don't take anything he says seriously, do you?

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    For those of you arguing that the 997S is cheaper think again. While the MSRP for the AMV8 is about $10,000 more it will hold its value substantially better than the S. Once you drive a S off the showroon floor, you immediately have at least a $10,000 loss.The AMV8 has a long waiting list here in the US and will sell above MSRP for quite awhile.

    So which one is better priced?

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    rich1231 said:
    You do realise that Porcas have the same image in the UK, dont you? Combined with the late 80's yuppie tarnish.

    At the end of the day, in the Porca vs v8 argument the speed and cost issues should be ignored. Else you would be in something cheaper and faster still.



    In the year 2000 onward , I sure beg to differ now..

    throt..

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    For those of you arguing that the 997S is cheaper think again. While the MSRP for the AMV8 is about $10,000 more it will hold its value substantially better than the S. Once you drive a S off the showroon floor, you immediately have at least a $10,000 loss.The AMV8 has a long waiting list here in the US and will sell above MSRP for quite awhile.

    So which one is better priced?



    You maybe correct. But if you look at the DB9 for example even the Volante a quick eBay search shows a number of DB9s which look to have dropped a good $20k with less than 1k miles on them....

    for example.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Aston-Mar...sspagenameZWDVW

    The only car that seems to be a good pursche (if you can get one) generally are the V8 Ferraris. Maybe the AM V8 will be the same. We'll see.

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Interesting thread of the performance of the Cayman S versus the AM V8 (admittedly one I created).

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=186707&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

    Not sure I would want to pay $110k knowing I just purchased the performance of a Cayman S...

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    For those of you arguing that the 997S is cheaper think again. While the MSRP for the AMV8 is about $10,000 more it will hold its value substantially better than the S. Once you drive a S off the showroon floor, you immediately have at least a $10,000 loss.The AMV8 has a long waiting list here in the US and will sell above MSRP for quite awhile.

    So which one is better priced?



    Your rationale doesn't hold water, negatore Nick. The AM's don't carry the same magic resale buoyancy of Ferrari...your chosen marque is still king.

    Secondly, you're using Al Gore's fuzzy math. I loaded up my 97S and after a nice discount cost $90,100. The Car & Driver AMV8 was $118K--think you'll agree that no AMV8 discounts will be forthcoming for awhile-- that's a $28K difference. Do you frequently represent that $28K is "about $10K" to your clients??

    Let's examine a bit of historical precedent: the following press excerpt dates to the launch of the AM Vanquish:


    "....Under Ford's guidance, the Vanquish is intended to re-cast Aston as a forward-looking,
    ultra-modern car maker. The Vanquish already has
    a two-year waiting list, although a premium price
    is likely to secure an example if you're very keen.

    FOR: Stunning looks, beautiful cabin,
    exceptional performance, ease of driving.
    AGAINST: Size, weight, cramped interior,
    question marks over sequential transmission.
    SUMMARY: A traffic-stopping supercar with impressive handling, but its weight counts against it..."


    Sound familiar? Sounds a lot like current AMV8 discussion.
    Vanquish buyers paid $240K at the outset, the same car can be had today for $140K. That's 58% residual value/4 years.

    Meanwhile a decently optioned 2002 Porsche 996 with an original MSRP of $80K can be had today for $45K-$48K....using $46K and that's
    again 58%/4 years' value retention.
    The Astons will parallel the depreciation curve of the Porsches. The lower purchase price of my 997S means if both cars lose 10% per year, my 997S depreciates at $750 per month, the Aston V8 would depreciate at
    $983 per month....that's a big difference in raw dollars over 3 or 4 years.

    Also, no matter how awkwardly styled the 997 Turbo admittedly is-- at $135K do you not think the 475 horsepower 997TT will exert a levelling effect on demand for the $118K AMV8?

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Understandably, the AM marque is far mare emotive here in the UK. Porsche has been so busy throwing out umpteen variants of the same car, so much so that on my last drive (in the 996) I could look in any direction and have a porsche of some description in my field of view, Where AM really scores is in it's rarity - oversaturation of the marketplace isn't an issue as of yet. I often get the feeling that Porsche is becoming more common than BMW round here.....

    Oh and the neighbour a few doors down has bought his 17 year old son a 997C4S too, I'll try and get a picture of it with its L plates on!!!

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    stanwan said:
    Understandably, the AM marque is far mare emotive here in the UK. Porsche has been so busy throwing out umpteen variants of the same car, so much so that on my last drive (in the 996) I could look in any direction and have a porsche of some description in my field of view, Where AM really scores is in it's rarity - oversaturation of the marketplace isn't an issue as of yet. I often get the feeling that Porsche is becoming more common than BMW round here.....

    Oh and the neighbour a few doors down has bought his 17 year old son a 997C4S too, I'll try and get a picture of it with its L plates on!!!



    I'd love to see that picture!

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    EnglishManInNY said:
    Interesting thread of the performance of the Cayman S versus the AM V8 (admittedly one I created).

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=186707&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

    Not sure I would want to pay $110k knowing I just purchased the performance of a Cayman S...



    If you use that logic, we would all be buying the Corvette Z06 or an Evo. There are faster cars that are cheaper than the AMV8 or the 911S so I don't think we need to go there. You purchase one of these cars for what it does for you. You can modify a 20,000$ japanese import to blow away almost any car so enough of that argument!!

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Damiam, I would be very careful in extrapolating depreciation on V10-12 GT's to V8 sport cars.There is a world of difference in the two markets.

    However, we know for certain the 997 will sustain significant depreciation and the reasons are obvious. Too many built, too many look alike models and models that undercut one another. When the 997 TT hits the streets, your S will be worth less. The Cayman according to Autocar circles its GT track faster than the S and on a wet track the AMV8 beats the S. The S is left with little redeeming qualities within the Porsche brand. Thus, the depreciation may reach biblical proportions.

    On the other hand, the AMV8 will be a true limited production car with no competing models within AM and has generated considerable interest and excitement among the more sophisticated sport car buyers. Most people will view the car as a STEP UP from a 911. It is prettier, more refined, more elegant and genteel.It will attract the savvy buyer who knows value. Sadly, 911's are a dime a dozen and THE AMV8 a very attractive limted production sport car with GT qualities whick make it a very desirable alternative to the 911.

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    stanwan said:
    Understandably, the AM marque is far mare emotive here in the UK. Porsche has been so busy throwing out umpteen variants of the same car, so much so that on my last drive (in the 996) I could look in any direction and have a porsche of some description in my field of view, Where AM really scores is in it's rarity - oversaturation of the marketplace isn't an issue as of yet. I often get the feeling that Porsche is becoming more common than BMW round here.....

    Oh and the neighbour a few doors down has bought his 17 year old son a 997C4S too, I'll try and get a picture of it with its L plates on!!!



    Yeah, Porsche is cranking these suckers out, for sure.

    My perspective is totally different from metro UK and coastal USA folks, as far as the 911's exotic-ness being diluted from there being 'too many' of them. We spend half the year here in western Pennsylvania where I see maybe two 911's per week-- of any vintage -- still a special event to me!

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    This clip from Top Gear Magazine may be useful for the discussion.

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Thats funny, I don't think Saurma said the Semi-slick tires were to compensate the PCCBs, I think the Top Gear guys took the liberty of interpreting it that way, cause Saurma is an expert in the ring and knows perfectly well that its not a fair comparison. If that was the intention, the logical choice would be to test a non-PCCB 997S and compare it...


    In the Sport Auto Supertest they also test the handling in the short Hockenheim track (a more handling oriented track than the ring). The 997S beat the AMV8 (AMV8 on semi-slick Pirelli Corsas) by half a second.


    BTW, the "Top Gear crew" where one of the first ones to spread the false rumor about the AMV8 doing sub 8min lap times in the ring...


    They tested the 997S and AMV8, and to their dismay, the 997S pulled 6 senconds from the AMV8 on regular tires (and BMW-M6) in a short 1:30 course...

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    ...These 6 seconds were achieved on the wet road!!
    That 997S was with PCCB and -20mm/LSD, BTW...

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    ...These 6 seconds were achieved on the wet road!!



    The road was wet for both cars ...

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    And again I have to state, the V8 is about a million times better sounding than the porca

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Damiam, I would be very careful in extrapolating depreciation on V10-12 GT's to V8 sport cars.There is a world of difference in the two markets.

    However, we know for certain the 997 will sustain significant depreciation and the reasons are obvious. Too many built, too many look alike models and models that undercut one another. When the 997 TT hits the streets, your S will be worth less. The Cayman according to Autocar circles its GT track faster than the S and on a wet track the AMV8 beats the S. The S is left with little redeeming qualities within the Porsche brand. Thus, the depreciation may reach biblical proportions.

    On the other hand, the AMV8 will be a true limited production car with no competing models within AM and has generated considerable interest and excitement among the more sophisticated sport car buyers. Most people will view the car as a STEP UP from a 911. It is prettier, more refined, more elegant and genteel.It will attract the savvy buyer who knows value. Sadly, 911's are a dime a dozen and THE AMV8 a very attractive limted production sport car with GT qualities whick make it a very desirable alternative to the 911.



    Since when do track times done by professional drivers in magazines have anything to do with depreciation?

    All mouth and no trousers

    As usual Nick you twist the story to suit your own insecurities and provide no factual support for your argument.

    I'm so grateful that this forum has you to unfailingly provide the humor, and very generously at your own expense. Keep it up! I'm laughing so hard I can hardly type for the tears.

    Re: All mouth and no trousers

    As usual Nick puts out the bait , dont bite on it!! , lol ..

    throt..

    Re: March Car and Driver has AM V8 beat the 997S..

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Damiam, I would be very careful in extrapolating depreciation on V10-12 GT's to V8 sport cars.There is a world of difference in the two markets.

    However, we know for certain the 997 will sustain significant depreciation and the reasons are obvious. Too many built, too many look alike models and models that undercut one another. When the 997 TT hits the streets, your S will be worth less. The Cayman according to Autocar circles its GT track faster than the S and on a wet track the AMV8 beats the S. The S is left with little redeeming qualities within the Porsche brand. Thus, the depreciation may reach biblical proportions.

    On the other hand, the AMV8 will be a true limited production car with no competing models within AM and has generated considerable interest and excitement among the more sophisticated sport car buyers. Most people will view the car as a STEP UP from a 911. It is prettier, more refined, more elegant and genteel.It will attract the savvy buyer who knows value. Sadly, 911's are a dime a dozen and THE AMV8 a very attractive limted production sport car with GT qualities whick make it a very desirable alternative to the 911.



    All cars depreciate. This is a fact.
    Wait 5 years from now, when the replacement of your 430 is due and your warranty is out, then you can expect the price of your car to be in Free Fall (look at the 360 prices). It will turn into a helicopter without gas...

    Re: All mouth and no trousers

    Nick, what hogwash...throt I do need a 12-step program to resist our beloved Nick/Simon Cowell wannabee, but I'm bored and all caught up at the office so I'll waste a few more minutes responding to this utter silliness.

    I have not shopped AMV8, are dealers in US and Europe contracting for above MSRP? established customers can always secure in advance for MSRP, but if only 3000 copies of AMV8 to be produced in first year...the car will sell for full price or more-- which, apples to apples is $30K more than optioned 97S.

    Without a doubt the AMV8 depreciation will be nil at first, just like w/997S a year ago, just like 996TT and BMW E46M3 were. Some will line up around the block for the Vantage, but anyone who's taken Economics 101 & recalls basic competitive market dynamics knows that the substitution effect will cast the 997 and other cars as less expensive goods relative to Vantage alternative & send some impatient enthusiasts (whose demand is price elastic)/ aspiring Aston buyers into 'consumption' of Porsche and other brands..... and so it goes until equilibrium is reached. It's not as complicated as I'm making it sound .

    Porsche flooding the market with excess supply will give us cheaper NEW (and used) Porsche's , nothing wrong with that either.

    I have simple needs. I'm not equipped to tie up $200K on an F430 even if I do recover the cost when I'm done with it....high amenity real estate not as fun as F-car but my better placed investment. Besides, I would sleep with one eye open cuz my neighbors and co-workers would set fire to a new Ferrari if we had one. Those who do the F360-430 get in/ get out--- tremendous, congrats on the free exotic car.

    At the end of the day if I can sell my 997S in four years for $50K, I'm happy. That's 54% residual....if that's biblical depreciation.. then hallelujah gimme an amen.

    Re: All mouth and no trousers

    Kevin Federline has an AMV8.

    Re: All mouth and no trousers

    Just test driven the V8. It was superb around the country back roads, and felt much lighter than it's supposed kerbweight. The example I drove felt superbly put together, not a squeak or rattle was evident. I have to say that it felt far superior to the 996 cab I drive....

    The AMV8 excels in the corners, but does loack straight line oomph - but brutal power is not what you needswhen attacking a snaking back road.

    I felt cheated when I had to go home in the civic.

    Re: Saw the AMV8 Today

    I went over today to my dealer to place an order on the upcoming GTC and to see other prospects that were available in the near future. I asked about the Rapide but I was told to ask again in one month because no allotments or even production notices have been made.

    When I visit the premises I like to look around to check what cars they might have on stock (official dealer: Aston, Bentley, Ferrari, Maserati, and Bugatti soon) they always have very impressive cars lying aroud.

    In the Aston section, they had recieved a blue AMV8 and it was positoned between 2 DB9's . This was the first time I had see the AMV8 upclose and all I can say is that its a complete joke. Its basically a shorter stubbier version of the DB9 and I wish not to offend anybody on the board but this car is just an utter disappointment (solely suited for a teenage girl). I realise that the 997 is positioned against this car (and no I am not a 911 owner nor ever have been) but IMO the 997 is a much more attractive automobile. One more time I would like reiterate how awful I thought the AMV8 looked like and I am not be able to comprehend how someone may pick it over a nicely equipped 997 . And yes I realise to most its not a money issue, but I am nearly completely sure that most of the buyers of the AMV8 are the ones who would like to purchase an Aston but do not have the required funds for a DB9. Please once again I wish not to offend any AMV8 owners but IM0 it was a mistake.



    Regarding the GTC, I ll try to scan any official documents I might get in the near future to keep fellow Rennteamers updated

     
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