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    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Porker:

    Next up, the narrow body AWD!

    I liked it more when the 996 Carrera 4 had the narrow body.

    I wonder if the widebody 997 Carrera 4 was born out of the "form follows function" principle or it was just a product differentiation decision?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    ADias:
    Carlos from Spain:

     But the GTS makes sense, its a great car, all its optiuons make sense as a package, and make it the sportiest and best Carrera version ever, the problem is that it was introduced at the end of the life cycle so in compensation is was sold at a great price, its a great deal. But putting AWD on such a concept? its like putting AWD on a GT3, not quite the same but I'm just trying to to illustrate the point. And on top of it just 3 months away from the 991...

     It makes sense if you want the wide body and PSE. Some don't.

     

    And the powerkit, and the best looks of any Carrera ever made. So it makes sense because no other carrera accelerates, handles, or looks as good as the GTS. Its arguably the most desired Carrera made.

    What doesn't make sense is to release it so late in the game, but to compensate that they gave it a great pricetag, so its also a great value. If they would of released it at the beginning of the 997 life cycle I would have bought one for sure.


    --


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    easy_rider911:
    Ron (Houston):

    I anticipate that we still will see

    Carrera S GTS coupe & cab
    Carrera 4S GTS coupe & cab


    Couldn't they all have the same 408PS engine?Smiley 

    Easy,

    I was just joking Smiley


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Ah, OK  


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    The new Porsche 911 GTS R3S...

    Smiley


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    lol sniffpetrol is great

    @Whoopsy: A 997.2 Turbo S Targa would be a fantastic car actually! 


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Unbelievable... 

    Here is the official press announcement:


    Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, is widening the top end of its Carrera model line and pairing up each of the two 911 Carrera GTS with an all-wheel drive twin. That means that the 911 Carrera 4 GTS Coupé and Cabriolet will combine the 408 hp (300 kW) top of the range engine of the Carrera GTS family with the intelligent, all-wheel drive Porsche Traction Management (PTM). Driving dynamics are not the only source of attraction. Economics are as well. Thanks to Porsche Intelligent Performance the new all-wheel 911s consume no more than the equivalent Carrera 4S version, the Coupé remains at 11.0 l/100 km (25.7 mpg imp.) and the Cabriolet at 11.2 l/100 km (25.2 mpg imp.) respectively based on the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC). Moreover both of them boast an even more comprehensive standard equipment package compared with the Carrera 4S models.

    The 911 Carrera 4 GTS power unit has its origins in the 3.8-litre, six-cylinder Carrera S engine. A wholesale revamping of the intake duct added 23 hp (17 kW), taking the power output to 408 hp (300 kW) at 7,300 rpm. The special aspiration system not only improves peak power output but flexibility and power development as well thanks to a more generous torque curve in the lower and middle engine speed range. 320 Newton metres kick in from as low as 1,500 rpm; the six-cylinder engine delivers its rated torque of 420 Nm in the broad engine speed range from 4,200 rpm and 5,600 rpm. The sports exhaust system fitted as standard ensures a distinctly sporty sound. It invests the new Carrera 4 GTS with an unmistakable acoustic signature and the rear view of its tail pipe with its unique black surface design lends it a unique character.

    At full power the Carrera 4 GTS Coupé sprints to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 4.6 seconds, the Cabriolet in 4.8 seconds. The Carrera 4 GTS is fitted as standard with a six-speed manual transmission but the Porsche-Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (PDK) seven-speed is available as an option if desired. The PDK shaves an additional 0.2 seconds respectively off the acceleration times from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph).

    In the Carrera 4 GTS as well, PTM all-wheel drive stands for Porsche’s typical driving pleasure with even more driving stability, traction and agile handling. The PTM achieves this by directing the optimal proportion of the engine torque to the front wheels via a multiple-plate clutch. What’s more, just how single-mindedly the Carrera 4 GTS is designed for driving dynamics is evident from the use of a standard limited-slip differential. This mechanical rear differential lock contributes to the driving dynamics of the electronically controlled all-wheel drive system.

    Visually, the new Carrera 4 GTS models with all-wheel drive differ in points of detail from earlier variants with rear-wheel drive: In addition to the type name on the doors and rear lid, the distinguishing characteristic of all models with all-wheel drive is the additional reflective stripe between the taillights. What the Carrera GTS models have in common is the 911’s wide body, otherwise reserved for the all-wheel version of the 911s, and the rear axle track width that goes with it. In numerous other details as well the GTS models differ both visually and technically from the other Carrera models. For example, they run on 19 inch RS Spyder wheels in black with central locking and gloss-lathed rim flanges fitted with 305/30 ZR 19 tyres on the rear axle. 

    Additional visual features include the Sport-Design front apron with black painted spoiler lip and special side skirts, also in black. Driver and passenger are accommodated on sports seats. Typical of the GTS, the emphatically sporty black Alcantara covering on centre panels, steering wheel rim, gearshift and handbrake lever, door handles and door storage box lid and extension are offered as standard in addition to a range of leather upholstery options.

    The 911 Carrera 4 GTS Coupé, including country-specific equipment and VAT at 19 per cent, is offered in Germany at a price of 111,956 euro, the Cabriolet costs 122,071 euro. Both models will be on sale in Germany from July 2011. 

    I have to apologize to one of our users from Canada, his dealer apparently told him about this car and I made fun of him. There was a rumor about a possible C4S special edition model with powerkit but I would have never imagined, not in my slightest dreams, that Porsche would name this car GTS. In my opinion the dumbest move the marketing department ever did. Read the description of the GTS 2WD and you may understand that the C4 GTS actually contradicts the description of the GTS 2WD completely. This is not what a serious and respected company should do in my opinion. 

    A photo of the Carrera 4 GTS and 4 GTS Cab:

    P11_0375.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    I wonder if a Turbo GTS will be next up??


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Perhaps - in the 991 line...

    Seriously though guys, you have to consider that Porsche needs to pull a lot of stunts reach the sales goals they have mapped out for 2015 and 2018.  200,000 units per year will mean a lot of "creative" thinking.

    Sorry to be so negative, but there you have it.


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    but they will bring at least 4 new models to attain 200k sales figures. Cajun, Pajun, 928 (970 coupe) and 550 baby boxster.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Besides, this GTS model end 997 shelf cleaning madness has nothing to do with reaching 200k sales... Just Porsche marketing gone wild.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    I agree - I'm not saying that this model is to help reach those numbers.  It can't:  this is 2011.  And it won't sell that many.

    I'm saying that more of the same "Porsche marketing gone wild" (well said) will need to follow to meet those numbers.  If you don't like this new variant (and I'm not particularly impressed with it), I think the "low end" of this brand's future is even worse. 

    My only hope for Porsche is that they continue to realize that pure, solid,"high end" models are what is creating the pull-through in the first place.  And that they want to keep milking this cow for the long haul, and not butcher her for the short.

    P.S.: They will be bringing new models, but they have also said that applying the 911 Variant System on other models is a key component to their plans as well.  And this C4GTS (complete with self-conflicting rationale) becomes the norm.

    Hope I'm dead wrong...


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Adam2S:

    I wonder if a Turbo GTS will be next up??


    How should that work? Turbo S already has nearly all the features of the GTS and I don't think they will spend more power to the outgoing Turbo.

    All I could think of is a dumb Black Edition of the Turbo before its production comes to an end. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Rossi:

    How should that work? Turbo S already has nearly all the features of the GTS and I don't think they will spend more power to the outgoing Turbo.

    All I could think of is a dumb Black Edition of the Turbo before its production comes to an end. Smiley

     

    Easy, they just stick the GTS badge on the back and gives us some extra bit of carbon trim for free. Smiley


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    Whoopsy:
    Rossi:

    How should that work? Turbo S already has nearly all the features of the GTS and I don't think they will spend more power to the outgoing Turbo.

    All I could think of is a dumb Black Edition of the Turbo before its production comes to an end. Smiley

     

    Easy, they just stick the GTS badge on the back and gives us some extra bit of carbon trim for free. Smiley


    Okay, that would be a solutiion. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    This is actually quite sad.

    Before Piech took control of Porsche we would never make fun of Porsche's 'new' products, WW never sell us such gimmicky stuff. Now it seems Piech is using the Gallardo strategy to try and lure more of our money.

    If this continues Piech is just going to ruin the brand's resale value like Audi and Lambo.


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    There's at least 27 versions of the 997...

    Carrera

    Carrera Cabriolet

    Carrera S

    Carrera S Cabriolet

    Carrera 4

    Carrera 4 Cabriolet

    Carrera 4S


    Carrera 4S Cabriolet


    Carrera GTS


    Carrera GTS Cabriolet


    Carrera 4 GTS


    Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet


    Black Edition


    Black Edition Cabriolet


    Targa 4


    Targa 4 S


    Turbo


    Turbo S


    Turbo Cabriolet


    Turbo S Cabriolet


    GT3


    GT3 RS


    GT3 RS 4.0

    GT2

    GT2 RS

    Sport Classic

    Speedster

     

    If I see one behind me, I have no idea which model it is... plus the Boxsters & Caymans.

    This can't be right can it???
    --

     

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    The number could be doubled if you count manual/tip/pdk as different versions :)


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    davew (cincy):

    P.S.: They will be bringing new models, but they have also said that applying the 911 Variant System on other models is a key component to their plans as well.  And this C4GTS (complete with self-conflicting rationale) becomes the norm.

    Hope I'm dead wrong...

    That is marketing gone wild... I think you might be right, under VW control this abomination might become the norm. Porsche seems to love their special and limited editions. They get more crazy as they run out of ideas.

    Well again, here's a few good ideas: Put a GT3 powersource in the boxster. Smiley
     


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    davew (cincy):

    Perhaps - in the 991 line...

    Seriously though guys, you have to consider that Porsche needs to pull a lot of stunts reach the sales goals they have mapped out for 2015 and 2018.  200,000 units per year will mean a lot of "creative" thinking.

    Sorry to be so negative, but there you have it.

     

    The reason for the many 997 special edition models doesn't seem to be only pushing sales of an ending model range but actually it seems it has an even more reasonable explanation: They need to keep up the production up and running for the 991, actually producing 991 models/prototypes in the mix and even using some 991 technology (improvements, software, etc.) in the latest 997 models, especially starting with January 2011 production. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that the GTS and the 4 GTS have the powerkit engine. Smiley

    Honestly, I didn't expect a Carrera 4 GTS model. All our sources indicated a special edition Carrera 4 or 4S model but there was no word about a GTS. Maybe this name change has been done very late in the process but I doubt it. I'd rather say that Porsche keeps their special editions even more secret than the 991, maybe not to offend for example GTS or Black Edition buyers. I don't have a clue but it sucks.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    ...curious if there will be a Special Edition 911 turbo s...aside to the 918 spyder add-on. Something like 580hp and individual interior as in Speedster/Sports Classic....

    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    John H:

    There's at least 27 versions of the 997...

    Carrera

    Carrera Cabriolet

    Carrera S

    Carrera S Cabriolet

    Carrera 4

    Carrera 4 Cabriolet

    Carrera 4S


    Carrera 4S Cabriolet


    Carrera GTS


    Carrera GTS Cabriolet


    Carrera 4 GTS


    Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet


    Black Edition


    Black Edition Cabriolet


    Targa 4


    Targa 4 S


    Turbo


    Turbo S


    Turbo Cabriolet


    Turbo S Cabriolet


    GT3


    GT3 RS


    GT3 RS 4.0

    GT2

    GT2 RS

    Sport Classic

    Speedster

     

    If I see one behind me, I have no idea which model it is... plus the Boxsters & Caymans.

    This can't be right can it???
    --

     

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    Never thaught i'd be saying this, but this is the first period in my life ( i'm 50) that i'm not sad having NO porsche (longing for one since i was 14, driving 4 of them the last 15 years).

    I was planning buying a used 991 in 2 years, but at the moment i'm super happy with my R8. Maybe i'll buy a 993 again and use an audi as daily.

    Porsche are really destroying their image of exclusive sportscar. It'll always stay a great sportscar but in no way an  exclusive one...


    --

    965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

    Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    John H, you forgot the Centurion Edition, the 918 Spyder Edition :)
    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?


    Never thaught i'd be saying this, but this is the first period in my life ( i'm 50) that i'm not sad having NO porsche (longing for one since i was 14, driving 4 of them the last 15 years).

    I was planning buying a used 991 in 2 years, but at the moment i'm super happy with my R8. Maybe i'll buy a 993 again and use an audi as daily.

    Porsche are really destroying their image of exclusive sportscar. It'll always stay a great sportscar but in no way an  exclusive one...

     

    Sorry to say that but I'd rather think that you're just not the Porsche type of guy...anymore. Smiley

    I know so many people owning Porsche sports cars and they usually end up again with a Porsche. Some get something else from time to time but mainly because they are fed up with the conservative Porsche design, not because they actually don't like Porsche cars anymore. It is exactly the conservative 911 design I actually like and love, this is why I buy Porsche. Otherwise I could choose any other sports car on the market, the market is huge right now and full of highly interesting cars.

    Why would you buy a 993? It was a great Porsche but compared to the 997, it is an oldtimer, a classic, somebody gets as a third, fourth or fifth car or somebody who can't afford the 997. I don't want to offend anybody but in my experience, the latest Porsche is usually the best one, advanced, refined and very fast. With the exception of the 996 maybe, all 911 successors were actually better than their older counterparts.

    The only reason the special edition models suck is an obvious one: How do you think a GTS special edition model will affect used cars sales of the 997 Carrera S and Carrera 4S in two or three years? Exactly. Since Porsche produced a huge number of GTS models, used cars buyers, especially those with some Porsche knowledge, will mainly look for the GTS models. Meaning: The used car prices of the regular 997 models will go down substantially because unfortunately the GTS models will very likely not achieve a higher used car price on the market but rather push the used car prices of the Carrera S/4S models down the drain. Those who lease cars, like myself, couldn't care less but just imagine somebody bought a 997 Carrera 4S recently and one week later, the Carrera 4 GTS shows up. Ouch.

    Same goes to the Black Edition models, they will very likely push the used car prices of the regular counterpart models to a lower level but especially the GTS models will affect the used car market in two to three years substantially. It is understandable, wouldn't you want the "better" car for little money more or even the same money?

    The 911 is the german Volkswagen of sports cars, it is one of the only high performance sports cars in the higher price range which for example in Germany is somehow socially acceptable in a way or another. Many business men are driving 911 because of that, even the IRS(state tax office) accepts the 911 as a business car. Try that with a Ferrari, Lamborghini or even an Audi R8 and people will usually raise their eyebrows.

    The 911 is a very special car on the market, it is a phenomenon, part tradition and history, part modern and very cold high tech. Even a 997 Turbo S may not stirr up much emotions in the outside world(for extroverted people, the GT3 RS may be the better product), a 997 Carrera is actually very non-spectacular nowadays. This is actually the strong point of the 911: Everybody knows what a 911 is, nobody finds it spectacular but if you look closely, people are still looking at it and are admiring it. Of course a Ferrari 458 Italia next to a 997 Turbo will always attract more attention but this is exactly the reason I've chosen the Porsche. I don't want to attract attention, I want to enjoy the car myself, for me, for my pleasure. From time to time people are still looking(or even starring) at it but I don't really care. I also don't wash it all the time or keep it shiny and polished, I just don't care too much about the outside, I care about driving fun and driving pleasure. The 911 gives me plenty of both.

    The fact that Porsche sells more Cayenne than 911 says a lot about the 911: People started to get bored with it, I understand it. However, without the 911, Porsche wouldn't sell half of the Cayenne they sell right now and this is a fact.

    There will be new Porsche models in the next couple of years, some more spectacular and even faster than the 911 but the 911 will stay the same...a somewhat affordable sports car icon for those who know how to appreciate a good but not too flashy product.

    Cheers. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?


    RC:

    The 911 is a very special car on the market, it is a phenomenon, part tradition and history, part modern and very cold high tech. Even a 997 Turbo S may not stirr up much emotions in the outside world(for extroverted people, the GT3 RS may be the better product), a 997 Carrera is actually very non-spectacular nowadays. This is actually the strong point of the 911: Everybody knows what a 911 is, nobody finds it spectacular but if you look closely, people are still looking at it and are admiring it. Of course a Ferrari 458 Italia next to a 997 Turbo will always attract more attention but this is exactly the reason I've chosen the Porsche. I don't want to attract attention, I want to enjoy the car myself, for me, for my pleasure. From time to time people are still looking(or even starring) at it but I don't really care. I also don't wash it all the time or keep it shiny and polished, I just don't care too much about the outside, I care about driving fun and driving pleasure. The 911 gives me plenty of both.


    +1 Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    RC:

    The 911 is a very special car on the market, it is a phenomenon, part tradition and history, part modern and very cold high tech. Even a 997 Turbo S may not stirr up much emotions in the outside world(for extroverted people, the GT3 RS may be the better product), a 997 Carrera is actually very non-spectacular nowadays. This is actually the strong point of the 911: Everybody knows what a 911 is, nobody finds it spectacular but if you look closely, people are still looking at it and are admiring it. Of course a Ferrari 458 Italia next to a 997 Turbo will always attract more attention but this is exactly the reason I've chosen the Porsche. I don't want to attract attention, I want to enjoy the car myself, for me, for my pleasure. From time to time people are still looking(or even starring) at it but I don't really care. I also don't wash it all the time or keep it shiny and polished, I just don't care too much about the outside, I care about driving fun and driving pleasure. The 911 gives me plenty of both.

     

           ......you're absolutely right, that's why I still drive a 964C2!


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    RC:
    The reason for the many 997 special edition models doesn't seem to be only pushing sales of an ending model range but actually it seems it has an even more reasonable explanation: They need to keep up the production up and running for the 991, actually producing 991 models/prototypes in the mix and even using some 991 technology (improvements, software, etc.) in the latest 997 models, especially starting with January 2011 production.

     

    That essentially says that it's a 'parts bin' exercise made by production demands. With the exception of the 2WD GTS wide-body (which some crave and others do not), most of those specs could be defined by a custom order. 


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

    beltar:
    John H:

    There's at least 27 versions of the 997...

    Carrera

    Carrera Cabriolet

    Carrera S

    Carrera S Cabriolet

    Carrera 4

    Carrera 4 Cabriolet

    Carrera 4S


    Carrera 4S Cabriolet


    Carrera GTS


    Carrera GTS Cabriolet


    Carrera 4 GTS


    Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet


    Black Edition


    Black Edition Cabriolet


    Targa 4


    Targa 4 S


    Turbo


    Turbo S


    Turbo Cabriolet


    Turbo S Cabriolet


    GT3


    GT3 RS


    GT3 RS 4.0

    GT2

    GT2 RS

    Sport Classic

    Speedster

     

    If I see one behind me, I have no idea which model it is... plus the Boxsters & Caymans.

    This can't be right can it???
    --

     

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    Never thaught i'd be saying this, but this is the first period in my life ( i'm 50) that i'm not sad having NO porsche (longing for one since i was 14, driving 4 of them the last 15 years).

    I was planning buying a used 991 in 2 years, but at the moment i'm super happy with my R8. Maybe i'll buy a 993 again and use an audi as daily.

    Porsche are really destroying their image of exclusive sportscar. It'll always stay a great sportscar but in no way an  exclusive one...


    Imagine trying to sell one of the starter range 911's at 3 years old with all its brothers on the market too, it could prove hard work.

    I agree with beltar, its pure silliness..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: A new 997 Carrera 4 GTS?

     If this makes any of the GTS owners feel better, the 4GTS would obviously be no match for the GTS because of its weight, and also no fun because of the nanny on board (4WD system). It doesn't make any sense for me to get 4WD, the snow in Canada is so much that it is not a matter of traction but of ground clearance. I would suggest getting Audi RS3(not available in NA) or Golf R for those rough days. 


     
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