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    997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    German Sport Auto-tomorrow's issue-most important test for all 997.2 Turbo fans.Smiley

    Results? Tomorrow mid day time...SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    At least they're not on Cups but stock tyres.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    acrobat:

    At least they're not on Cups but stock tyres.


    And they won't burst into flames either. SmileySmiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    acrobat:

    At least they're not on Cups but stock tyres.

     Indeed, the test results on Cup tires would be most interesting. The turbo/turboS lacks grip on the front axle. This becomes obvious in the first bend you drive. I recently asked myself whether the suspension would be better with Cup tires Smiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    I would avoid Cups on Turbo PDK or Turbo S. Yes, grip is better but, this tires are prone to temperature differences and need long warm-up period.

    Interesting enough someone who I trust told me that Turbo S is actually faster on the track with P Zero N2 then with Bridgestones RE050 N1. Grip is also better on front axle with P Zeros. Just, Porsche from marketing reasons puts Bridgestones on most 997.2 Turbos.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    BTW, New Corsas N1 are also available for Turbo.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    KresoF1:
    Just, Porsche from marketing reasons puts Bridgestones on most 997.2 Turbos.

    What are the reasons?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    reginos:
    KresoF1:
    Just, Porsche from marketing reasons puts Bridgestones on most 997.2 Turbos.

    What are the reasons?


    Contract that Porsche signed with Bridgestone. I can not give you more info...


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    Please, do not post McLaren marketing videos in this thread. MP4-12C in this video is PP(preproduction prototyp) car. Hope you understand what I mean...


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

     Here are the key results from the Supertest (the turboS was equipped with the aero kit, both cars on Bridgestone, both cars with PCCB, same weight):

    NBR-NS: 7.44 vs. 7.47 (both numbers are frustrating...)

    HHR: 1.10,9 vs. 1.12,1 (frustrating as well)

    Wet handling: 1.37,1 vs. 1.37,4 (bad as well)

    Max-speed on Doettinger Höhe: 295kph vs. 288kph

    0-200: 10.6s vs. 10.8s

    0-100: 3.1s vs. 3.2s

    200-0: 134.5m vs. 138.6m

    fuel consumption: 15.8l/100km with both cars

     

    I really would be interested in the corresponding figures on Cup/Corsa tires. I guess they won't be much different, otherwise Porsche would have sent a corresponding test car.

    How did Porsche manage to build a car with such a bad suspension? The test results are really crappy. Even in the latest version of the turbo.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    those figures surely do mean one thing, not press cars


    --

     

    http://i54.tinypic.com/34fcl7a.jpg


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    BiTurbo:

    those figures surely do mean one thing, not press cars

     That is one advantage, agreed  Smiley Smiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    MKSGR:

     Here are the key results from the Supertest (the turboS was equipped with the aero kit, both cars on Bridgestone, both cars with PCCB, same weight):

    NBR-NS: 7.44 vs. 7.47 (both numbers are frustrating...)

    For comparison, the new GT-R achieved a laptime of 7:24 in far from ideal conditions.

     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    MKSGR:

     Here are the key results from the Supertest (the turboS was equipped with the aero kit, both cars on Bridgestone, both cars with PCCB, same weight):

    NBR-NS: 7.44 vs. 7.47 (both numbers are frustrating...)

    HHR: 1.10,9 vs. 1.12,1 (frustrating as well)

    Wet handling: 1.37,1 vs. 1.37,4 (bad as well)

    Max-speed on Doettinger Höhe: 295kph vs. 288kph

    0-200: 10.6s vs. 10.8s

    0-100: 3.1s vs. 3.2s

    200-0: 134.5m vs. 138.6m

    fuel consumption: 15.8l/100km with both cars

     

    I really would be interested in the corresponding figures on Cup/Corsa tires. I guess they won't be much different, otherwise Porsche would have sent a corresponding test car.

    How did Porsche manage to build a car with such a bad suspension? The test results are really crappy. Even in the latest version of the turbo.

    So this means that the 911 Turbo throughout the 997 series (mk1 and mk2) will not have performed well on the track (997.1 Turbo did 7.54 on the Nordschleife with Corsa tires if I remember correctly Smiley) and that 997.2 Turbo / Turbo S is king in straight-line acceleration only.

    This also put in light how outstanding the 458 Italia performance figures are, when looking at the corresponding SA Supertest, since the car was equipped with street tires.

    And yes Kreso, these average numbers hightlight SA impartiality and integrity. Smiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    MKSGR:
    BiTurbo:

    those figures surely do mean one thing, not press cars

     That is one advantage, agreed  Smiley Smiley

    Yes but they used two cars for one single test.  Smiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    The conclusion from this and previous SA tests is that the 997 Turbo models are not well suited to track driving. They are Porsche's sports cars for very fast (all) road driving with the security of AWD.

    I wonder whether the above meets Porsche's initial design brief or whether they failed to deliver something better 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    Kreso,

    What are the aerodynamic-figures?


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    gangajas:
    MKSGR:

     Here are the key results from the Supertest (the turboS was equipped with the aero kit, both cars on Bridgestone, both cars with PCCB, same weight):

    NBR-NS: 7.44 vs. 7.47 (both numbers are frustrating...)

    For comparison, the new GT-R achieved a laptime of 7:24 in far from ideal conditions.

     

     You cannot compare these Nissan claims with the SportAuto lap times. Under similar conditions the new GTR does more like 7.35 or so - but still, it is clearly faster than even the turboS Smiley The even bigger problem for me is that you can feel the turbo's limited chassis qualities when you take the car for a short drive on public roads. The car lacks grip on the front axle and the whole chassis acks transparancy/dependability. The rest of the car is great, though.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    Ziggy:
    MKSGR:

     Here are the key results from the Supertest (the turboS was equipped with the aero kit, both cars on Bridgestone, both cars with PCCB, same weight):

    NBR-NS: 7.44 vs. 7.47 (both numbers are frustrating...)

    HHR: 1.10,9 vs. 1.12,1 (frustrating as well)

    Wet handling: 1.37,1 vs. 1.37,4 (bad as well)

    Max-speed on Doettinger Höhe: 295kph vs. 288kph

    0-200: 10.6s vs. 10.8s

    0-100: 3.1s vs. 3.2s

    200-0: 134.5m vs. 138.6m

    fuel consumption: 15.8l/100km with both cars

     

    I really would be interested in the corresponding figures on Cup/Corsa tires. I guess they won't be much different, otherwise Porsche would have sent a corresponding test car.

    How did Porsche manage to build a car with such a bad suspension? The test results are really crappy. Even in the latest version of the turbo.

    So this means that the 911 Turbo throughout the 997 series (mk1 and mk2) will not have performed well on the track (997.1 Turbo did 7.54 on the Nordschleife with Corsa tires if I remember correctly Smiley) and that 997.2 Turbo / Turbo S is king in straight-line acceleration only.

    This also put in light how outstanding the 458 Italia performance figures are, when looking at the corresponding SA Supertest, since the car was equipped with street tires.

    And yes Kreso, these average numbers hightlight SA impartiality and integrity. Smiley

     The turbo/turbo S Supertest was also done with non-UHP tires. Otherwise, you are right. The entire 997 turbo range suffers from poor track performance Smiley BTW, I don't agree that the 458 performs well: just keep in mind that the 458 is way slower than the GT2RS despite having the huge advantage (on high-speed tracks) of a double-clutch gearbox. The GT2RS has 50hp more than the 458, the turbo S has 40hp less. Thus the 458 is right in the middle of GT2RS and turboS as far as hp output is concerned. Also, I believe chances are high that the McLaren will kill them all (GT2RS included).


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    acrobat:

    Kreso,

    What are the aerodynamic-figures?

     

    turbo:

    Cw 0.31

    CwxA 0.64

    Front axle at 200kph: +5kg

    Rear axle at 200kph: -9kg

     

     

     

    turbo S (with aero kit):

    Cw 0.32

    CwxA 0.66

    Front axle at 200kph: +5kg

    Rear axle at 200kph: -24kg

     

     

     


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    I'm not sure that Mclaren will kill GT2RS, but even if it succeed; it will be with a small margine. Having in mind, that 997 is already an "old" platform, it won't  be a big deal for me...


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    MKSGR:
    acrobat:

    Kreso,

    What are the aerodynamic-figures?

     

    turbo:

    Cw 0.31

    CwxA 0.64

    Front axle at 200kph: +5kg

    Rear axle at 200kph: -9kg

     

     

     

    turbo S (with aero kit):

    Cw 0.32

    CwxA 0.66

    Front axle at 200kph: +5kg

    Rear axle at 200kph: -24kg

     

     

     

    Thank you!

    Uplift at the rear axle? Smiley


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    MKSGR:
    The turbo/turbo S Supertest was also done with non-UHP tires. Otherwise, you are right. The entire 997 turbo range suffers from poor track performance Smiley BTW, I don't agree that the 458 performs well: just keep in mind that the 458 is way slower than the GT2RS despite having the huge advantage (on high-speed tracks) of a double-clutch gearbox. The GT2RS has 50hp more than the 458, the turbo S has 40hp less. Thus the 458 is right in the middle of GT2RS and turboS as far as hp output is concerned. Also, I believe chances are high that the McLaren will kill them all (GT2RS included).

    It seems that the GT2 setup gives a huge track advantage despite its "lack" of acceleration compared to the PDK Turbos, right?

    Haven't driven a GT2 but my former GT3 RS was a precision tool with tons of front end grip and feedback. I sold my 997 Mk1 Turbo dissapointed by its chassis setup and understood the Mk2 fixed most of its weakenesses... but it seems it has not.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    acrobat:
    MKSGR:
    acrobat:

    Kreso,

    What are the aerodynamic-figures?

     

    turbo:

    Cw 0.31

    CwxA 0.64

    Front axle at 200kph: +5kg

    Rear axle at 200kph: -9kg

     

     

     

    turbo S (with aero kit):

    Cw 0.32

    CwxA 0.66

    Front axle at 200kph: +5kg

    Rear axle at 200kph: -24kg

     

     

     

    Thank you!

    Uplift at the rear axle? Smiley


    No, just reverse + and -.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    Mikla:
    MKSGR:
    The turbo/turbo S Supertest was also done with non-UHP tires. Otherwise, you are right. The entire 997 turbo range suffers from poor track performance Smiley BTW, I don't agree that the 458 performs well: just keep in mind that the 458 is way slower than the GT2RS despite having the huge advantage (on high-speed tracks) of a double-clutch gearbox. The GT2RS has 50hp more than the 458, the turbo S has 40hp less. Thus the 458 is right in the middle of GT2RS and turboS as far as hp output is concerned. Also, I believe chances are high that the McLaren will kill them all (GT2RS included).

    It seems that the GT2 setup gives a huge track advantage despite its "lack" of acceleration compared to the PDK Turbos, right?

    Haven't driven a GT2 but my former GT3 RS was a precision tool with tons of front end grip and feedback. I sold my 997 Mk1 Turbo dissapointed by its chassis setup and understood the Mk2 fixed most of its weakenesses... but it seems it has not.

     Exactly: the GT2 Mk1 reaches a similar top-speed on Doettinger Hoehe, for example - but still is more than 10s faster than the turboS.

    For me, the Supertest gets more and more important as you can really feel the lap time differences on public roads as well. Capable/Incapable chassis simply reveal their qualities on the track as well as on public roads. That's why - for me - comparing lap times is most relevant.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    MKSGR:

     Here are the key results from the Supertest (the turboS was equipped with the aero kit, both cars on Bridgestone, both cars with PCCB, same weight):

    NBR-NS: 7.44 vs. 7.47 (both numbers are frustrating...)

    HHR: 1.10,9 vs. 1.12,1 (frustrating as well)

    Wet handling: 1.37,1 vs. 1.37,4 (bad as well)

    Max-speed on Doettinger Höhe: 295kph vs. 288kph

    0-200: 10.6s vs. 10.8s

    0-100: 3.1s vs. 3.2s

    200-0: 134.5m vs. 138.6m

    fuel consumption: 15.8l/100km with both cars

     

    I really would be interested in the corresponding figures on Cup/Corsa tires. I guess they won't be much different, otherwise Porsche would have sent a corresponding test car.

    How did Porsche manage to build a car with such a bad suspension? The test results are really crappy. Even in the latest version of the turbo.

    Markus,
     

    Both car would be around 5s-8s faster on the Ring with Corsa/Cup tires. This info is direclty from P.

    Why SA used normal tires? Porsche wanted to send cars eqiuped with Cup+ as well but, SA wanted to measure the cars with normal tires since 95% of Turbo costumers never track their cars.

    If you add 5s to calculation you will get pretty good numbers. Specially in light of competiton-R8 V10, SLS AMG and 458 Italia.

    BUT, fact is-SLS AMG is with standard tires faster on the Ring, HHR and wet handling track then Turbo PDK/Turbo S.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    BTW, one other thing is interesting. If we look precisely at these numbers from Supertest conclusion is that low spec Turbo PDK(no PCCBs, only PTV and SC+) is the best buy.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

    Thank you!

    Uplift at the rear axle? Smiley


    No, just reverse + and -.

     

    Thanks again.

    Are there any differences between the two car's in-gear-times? 80-120 km/h for example.


    Re: 997.2 Turbo PDK & Turbo S Supertest

     Shocking if you compare it to the 997.2 GT3 RS time of 7.33. Ten seconds slower! 


     
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