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    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Review

    I'd like to see a "long" review if this is a short one!

    Thanks RC!

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Review

    Thanks so much for taking the time! I realize that you chose Tip over the manual for your turbo. I wonder if you were not a fan of Tipronic, if you would still favor PDK so much?

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Review

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Thanks so much for taking the time! I realize that you chose Tip over the manual for your turbo. I wonder if you were not a fan of Tipronic, if you would still favor PDK so much?



    I'm not a fan of Tiptronic, never was. I just always said that Tiptronic works pretty well in the 997 Turbo, I would have never bought Tiptronic in a Carrera for example. My wife had a Boxster S with Tiptronic and although it worked well, I didn't really liked it better than manual.

    For the Turbo, Tiptronic is a good choice for various reasons but I guess this claim will hunt me even into my grave.

    Btw: the Tiptronic in my 997 Turbo was the first time in my LIFE I had an automatic tranny in a Porsche or sportscar. Always drove manual before, just as a little sidenote.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Review

    Fantastic review, many thanks

    RE S vs FL non-S, drove all cars curtesy of Porsche GB, the FL models are the way to go, noise, vibration, "feel", interior and PCM all conspire to make a better choice. Anyway, there is no performance difference between the 2 so why go for the previous one?

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Great write-up

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Christian: Excellent review! Thanks.

    I think that the tempest in a glass of water re the new paddles is just that. I actually prefer the dual up/down on both sides - I have that in my Vette and it works well. I also like the ability to change in the stick. Why did PAG do this? to be unique? perhaps - they always have been unique - see key on the left side. After all there are the BMW and Ferrari models and those are different too. At the end of the day it's a user-interface issue and it's not so difficult to adapt to it, unless you constantly also drive a BMW and a Ferrari, but those people are in the minority, so who cares?

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Excellent write-up.....I actually learned somethings, not like most magazines where you have writers that just provide "fluff" and no real information.
    Well done

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Great review - I have gone for the S version with PDK and can't wait!!

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Christian: Excellent review! Thanks.

    I think that the tempest in a glass of water re the new paddles is just that. I actually prefer the dual up/down on both sides - I have that in my Vette and it works well. I also like the ability to change in the stick. Why did PAG do this? to be unique? perhaps - they always have been unique - see key on the left side. After all there are the BMW and Ferrari models and those are different too. At the end of the day it's a user-interface issue and it's not so difficult to adapt to it, unless you constantly also drive a BMW and a Ferrari, but those people are in the minority, so who cares?



    As well as being unique, the left side ignition switch has a bit of history behind it. It was initially located on the left so that when race drivers ran to their cars on the starting grid, the driver could simultaneously place the key into the ignition cylinder while entering the car, which facilitated a faster start off.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Review

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    Thanks so much for taking the time! I realize that you chose Tip over the manual for your turbo. I wonder if you were not a fan of Tipronic, if you would still favor PDK so much?



    I'm not a fan of Tiptronic, never was. I just always said that Tiptronic works pretty well in the 997 Turbo, I would have never bought Tiptronic in a Carrera for example. My wife had a Boxster S with Tiptronic and although it worked well, I didn't really liked it better than manual.

    For the Turbo, Tiptronic is a good choice for various reasons but I guess this claim will hunt me even into my grave.

    Btw: the Tiptronic in my 997 Turbo was the first time in my LIFE I had an automatic tranny in a Porsche or sportscar. Always drove manual before, just as a little sidenote.



    Although, I personally would not opt for the tip. trans., I do understand why you did in the turbo, considering the networking systems retaining boost and all.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    devo said:As well as being unique, the left side ignition switch has a bit of history behind it. It was initially located on the left so that when race drivers ran to their cars on the starting grid, the driver could simultaneously place the key into the ignition cylinder while entering the car, which facilitated a faster start off.


    Yeah, and back then they didn't even get their seatbelts fastened until sometime later in the first lap when they had a spare moment. Of course, in the really early days, there were no belts at all

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Which gear box is more fast the Porsche's PDK or gear box Ferrari F430 F1?
    thanks!!!

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    As I have grown accustomed to, your reviews are thorough, objective and thought provoking. Excellent write up.

    A word about PDK. Presently Porsche estimates that over 50% of new car buyers will order PDK. Compared to other car manufacturers, Porsche price is reasonable for PDK (less than $5000). In about five years, as I have written so often, the manual will be only for those that still own manual typewriters. Once you learn to use PDK in performance situations, there is no going back.

    Pleasure vs. Efficiency

    Nick, you may be right. but I still prefer the pleasure of shifting my own gears, in the same way that I prefer cooking with copper-bottomed pans rather than efficiently microwaving something and chopping my own vegetables rather than putting them in a soulless food processor.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    nberry said:In about five years, as I have written so often, the manual will be only for those that still own manual typewriters.



    Yes, when was the first time you came up with that prediction? 5 years ago already? anyway your predictions aren't exactly nostradamus material when it comes to Porsche because your anti-anything-related-to-porsche bias blinds you, shall we revise your prediction about the cayenne at the beginning? or the 997 3 years ago? ... when was Porsche going to suffer and go bankrupt again? 5 years?

    seriously, no matter how good performancewise is the auto-tranny, that will not float with 100% of the customers because in street cars there is also the fun factor, and removing the clutch and stick out of the ecuation is removing part of the fun of driving for some drivers, and no precisely the older ones. Two each his own, and thats why there is still a choice of manual in the Lambo, M3, Porsche, Ferrari, R8, etc. yet they all have good secuential boxes available.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Excellent RC as always, enjoyed every bit of it.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    thank you RC

    we are yet to see the FL here in OZ. and am keeping my options open till I see that car.

    unfortunately my budget can only stretch to a 997, not S.

    how does it compare with the Gen I 997. i know 20bhp is nothing to get excited about. but would u say the Gen2 997 would be very similiar with Gen1 997S???

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:In about five years, as I have written so often, the manual will be only for those that still own manual typewriters.



    Yes, when was the first time you came up with that prediction? 5 years ago already? anyway your predictions aren't exactly nostradamus material when it comes to Porsche because your anti-anything-related-to-porsche bias blinds you, shall we revise your prediction about the cayenne at the beginning? or the 997 3 years ago? ... when was Porsche going to suffer and go bankrupt again? 5 years?

    seriously, no matter how good performancewise is the auto-tranny, that will not float with 100% of the customers because in street cars there is also the fun factor, and removing the clutch and stick out of the ecuation is removing part of the fun of driving for some drivers, and no precisely the older ones. Two each his own, and thats why there is still a choice of manual in the Lambo, M3, Porsche, Ferrari, R8, etc. yet they all have good secuential boxes available.



    Well it is not true for Ferrari any more, as at least the Scuderia, 612 (lately) and California are not available with a manual any more.

    And the manual 430s and 599s are not really sought after.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    great Rc , the 997 cabrio shown in your pictures is similar to mine .same colours..( but mine is S with sportcrono).
    I drove for 20 minuts a 997S mk2 coupe' with -20 lsd / PDK / sportchrono ...

    like you, I was very surprised hwo FAST and good is the PDk ( on sportplus mode ,full trottle) : when you change the gear up (2->3->4) you feel how fast and "hard" is this gearbox ....I like it very much!

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    sergini said:
    I drove for 20 minuts a 997S mk2 coupe' with -20 lsd / PDK / sportchrono ...



    Sergini, how did the chasis/suspensions of the mk2 PASM-20mm/lsd feel compared to the mk1-20mm/lsd?

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    derder said:
    thank you RC

    we are yet to see the FL here in OZ. and am keeping my options open till I see that car.

    unfortunately my budget can only stretch to a 997, not S.

    how does it compare with the Gen I 997. i know 20bhp is nothing to get excited about. but would u say the Gen2 997 would be very similiar with Gen1 997S???



    The 997 Carrera I drove felt very powerful(don't forget that I own a 997 Turbo too, so there is no mis-conception or false feeling about that), maybe it had to do with the new DI engine which seems to feel very "free" in the middle and upper rev range. I also had the feeling that I always have a lot of torque available. Contrary to the BMW M3 Cab DKG where I have a good power/torque feel in the 3000-5000 rpm range and then just above 7000 rpm which makes the feeling a little bit odd. I actually like such high revving engines but being used to a Turbo engine(997 Turbo), the BMW M3 Cab always feels underpowered, even if it is as fast as the 997 Carrera in real life testing.

    All I can say is that for the first time, the 997 Carrera with PDK(I didn't try manual!) is a good buy, of course the 997 Carrera S FL is faster but I wouldn't expect too much difference between the new Carrera FL and the "old" Carrera S, especially if you're ordering the car with PDK which also reduces acceleration times.

    No looking back, I would definetely go for the facelift.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Great review Christian!

    Glad to see that PDK works well,good move finally from Porsche also here!


    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    sergini said:
    I drove for 20 minuts a 997S mk2 coupe' with -20 lsd / PDK / sportchrono ...



    Sergini, how did the chasis/suspensions of the mk2 PASM-20mm/lsd feel compared to the mk1-20mm/lsd?



    I'm also curious about this question since I had a -20mm lsd sports chassie 997 mk1 Carrera S. The ride was very firm and stiff and I never think of buying the same setup again. Just LSD is fine for me which was the main reason I had gone for the sports chassie at first.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Had the chance to drive a Carrera S with PDK and came away pretty impressed. This is the first time I drive an auto box and left it most of the time in auto with the Sport Plus activated. It works PERFECT! I would change gears any different. PDK is smooth in city driving, gives you tons of feedback in sport mode and launch control is exciting.

    Wonder what the PDK would do to my 997 Turbo...

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    pride355 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    sergini said:
    I drove for 20 minuts a 997S mk2 coupe' with -20 lsd / PDK / sportchrono ...



    Sergini, how did the chasis/suspensions of the mk2 PASM-20mm/lsd feel compared to the mk1-20mm/lsd?



    I'm also curious about this question since I had a -20mm lsd sports chassie 997 mk1 Carrera S. The ride was very firm and stiff and I never think of buying the same setup again. Just LSD is fine for me which was the main reason I had gone for the sports chassie at first.



    From my experience with the Boxster and 911 sports chassis,they become very uncomfortable and harsh at times if you drive on less than perfect roads especially at lower speeds.

    Now that the LSD is an option on its own I would never get the -20mm anywhere outside Germany or similar quality of roads.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    pride355 said:
    I'm also curious about this question since I had a -20mm lsd sports chassie 997 mk1 Carrera S. The ride was very firm and stiff and I never think of buying the same setup again. Just LSD is fine for me which was the main reason I had gone for the sports chassie at first.



    From my experience with the Boxster and 911 sports chassis,they become very uncomfortable and harsh at times if you drive on less than perfect roads especially at lower speeds.

    Now that the LSD is an option on its own I would never get the -20mm anywhere outside Germany or similar quality of roads.



    AMS briefly compared PASM vs. SportPASM on the new 997 but didn't find the handling difference to be significant. On the contrary, the ride must be considerably harsher.
    Have not driven the car yet but from my perception, the sport suspension would only make sense if the car'd be used on the track primarily.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    pride355 said:
    I'm also curious about this question since I had a -20mm lsd sports chassie 997 mk1 Carrera S. The ride was very firm and stiff and I never think of buying the same setup again. Just LSD is fine for me which was the main reason I had gone for the sports chassie at first.



    I guess a lot depends on the roads and personal preference, for me the -20mm/lsd on the MkI is perfect stiffness, I wouldn't want it any softer at all.

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    don't remeber ....obviously much softer than my gt3

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    From my experience with the Boxster and 911 sports chassis,they become very uncomfortable and harsh at times if you drive on less than perfect roads especially at lower speeds.

    Now that the LSD is an option on its own I would never get the -20mm anywhere outside Germany or similar quality of roads.



    I agree

    Re: 997 C2 Cab FL vs. M3 Cab - Rennteam Short Revi

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    pride355 said:
    I'm also curious about this question since I had a -20mm lsd sports chassie 997 mk1 Carrera S. The ride was very firm and stiff and I never think of buying the same setup again. Just LSD is fine for me which was the main reason I had gone for the sports chassie at first.



    I guess a lot depends on the roads and personal preference, for me the -20mm/lsd on the MkI is perfect stiffness, I wouldn't want it any softer at all.



    The roads where I live are what I would consider good to very good. I test drove a used 997 GT3 extensively , and thought it was sprung just right. I would imagine SPASM would be no worse, likely a bit softer and, with the option of normal mode. If I go with a NA 997S, it's a must have for me.

     
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