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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Kreso,

    two questions in terms of the definition of "sequential manual":

    1. will there be a clutch pedal?

    2. will they go for gear shift by paddle or by gear level as in older RSR and Cup versions? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I would probably say it's a compromise (I would assume clutch pedal for first gear - rest just a bigger stick in the middle pushing forward for downshifts and backwards for upshifts)  good for residual values of the 997RS  Not a lot of people will be able to judge until you drove one - but those cars will be hard to test-drive I guess. I would love to test one for sure !

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gauss:

    I am by no means an expert when it comes to transmissions, but isn't a sequential gearbox much more delicate, with higher wearout, than a conventional transmission or PDK? What about frequent service intervals ? 

    Competition sequential boxes generally have dog-clutches instead of synchroniser rings, so are prone to earlier wear than would be acceptable for road cars. Competition engines and gearboxes have to be stripped down and overhauled regularly anyway, so that isn't a problem in that context. 
    There will be ways around that though for street applications, but maybe with some penalties in terms of complexity, weight, cost, or shift times.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)


    Robotised manual like Ferraris used to have would make absolutely no sense at all...either PDk or good old fashioned manual or a proper sequential like on racecars and motorcycles are the only viable options imho


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    fritz:
     

    Competition sequential boxes generally have dog-clutches instead of synchroniser rings, so are prone to earlier wear than would be acceptable for road cars. Competition engines and gearboxes have to be stripped down and overhauled regularly anyway, so that isn't a problem in that context. 
    There will be ways around that though for street applications, but maybe with some penalties in terms of complexity, weight, cost, or shift times.  Smiley

    Yes, I assume that will be the case. They have to find a compromise, and that's definitely no easy task. I'm curious to see what they will come up with and how it will be received.

    It's kind of exciting to see Porsche being so spirited and brave with the new 991 GT3 (RS). 


    --

    Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gauss:
    fritz:
     

    Competition sequential boxes generally have dog-clutches instead of synchroniser rings, so are prone to earlier wear than would be acceptable for road cars. Competition engines and gearboxes have to be stripped down and overhauled regularly anyway, so that isn't a problem in that context. 
    There will be ways around that though for street applications, but maybe with some penalties in terms of complexity, weight, cost, or shift times.  Smiley

    Yes, I assume that will be the case. They have to find a compromise, and that's definitely no easy task. I'm curious to see what they will come up with and how it will be received.

    It's kind of exciting to see Porsche being so spirited and brave with the new 991 GT3 (RS). 

    An absolute necessity in order to be able to homologate a competitive racing version of the car, I would have thought. Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The the latest copy of Porsche Post (UK) the Inside Line article states that Porsche hope to introduce a new version of the RSR in late 2014 based on the 991 GT3 (RS I assume) rather than the current 991 C4 base, if the new RSR is ready by then.

    From the latest rumours above, this RS sounds very exciting :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol:

    The RS serves as the RSR GTE homologation car (or will serve). There is no AWS allowed in the ACO/FiA regulations.

    Wouldn't this merely cause the dismissal of forbidden components in the racing version? I rather assume that Porsche will homologate additional components on the RS that will appear instead of AWS and that will directly benefit the racing version, similiar to the suspension changes on the 996 GT3. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol:

    The RS serves as the RSR GTE homologation car (or will serve). There is no AWS allowed in the ACO/FiA regulations.

     hello Sypderidol,

    youre always well informed on racing regulations..:)..Im also a bit in the subject bu not as well as you..

    On the RWS: I cant understand this logic "not allowed in racing"..e-diff, e-brake, e-steering are also clearly forbidden in racing..like many other things the 991 Gt3 has - or other road cars. Therefore, I cant follow the logic, why RWS has to be dropped from the RS while an e-diff can stay - this is clearly forbidden in racing.

    Its good that these nonsense things are forbidden in racing otherwise it would become too expensive and tracks would be empty...besides electric hyper F1 cars..Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    I also forgot to mention that my "source" told me that the new 991 GT3 RS will be a great track car but not so great for public streets for various reasons, much less than the previous RS models. He would recommend the 991 GT3 instead. Just forwarding what he said... He isn't a fan of the RS though, so take it with a grain of salt (I hope I didn't say anything wrong now indecision).

     much less a street car then previous versions?Smiley..I cant believe that ..but if true..- Im in the market:). Not that I want it to be more uncomfotable then a 997 GT3 RS..but I want Porsche to build a radical car again..and I havent seen any radical 991 yet. The 991 GT3 is softened thing..- for my sunday track day I would need something raw - otherwise I will buy a CUP..was so close to do it..

    For going to office a panamera is better anywaySmiley ..and now there´s even a "cheap option" Macan..and actually it looks good, certainly better then the actual cayenne..


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    How many times have I suggested the sequential manual ?  Yes it will use a clutch for when stopped and for downshifting. Upshift can be made with or without the clutch. As it should be.  This is the best type of transmission for the RS IMHO. Glad that Porsche listened to me.  Cheers


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    @ Ferdie and GTlover: The problem is that it is not just a question of what is allowed or not allowed, but also what is allowed to be changed. Also - I suspect that the AWD (RWD) suspension system is so different to the "normal" system that the ACO would not homologate the car unless there was a road version without the RWD system. I don't think its as simple as just "removing" the RWD. Remember that the purpose of the homologation is to try and keep the race cars as close as possible to their road going brethren.Simply changing the hand break is acceptable; changing the whole design of the rear suspension may just be a step too far. (Unless of course they get a waiver).


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol:

    @ Ferdie and GTlover: The problem is that it is not just a question of what is allowed or not allowed, but also what is allowed to be changed. Also - I suspect that the AWD (RWD) suspension system is so different to the "normal" system that the ACO would not homologate the car unless there was a road version without the RWD system. I don't think its as simple as just "removing" the RWD. Remember that the purpose of the homologation is to try and keep the race cars as close as possible to their road going brethren.Simply changing the hand break is acceptable; changing the whole design of the rear suspension may just be a step too far. (Unless of course they get a waiver).

    From the number of things Porsche has had waived in the past one would think they could get away with anything :)

    A GT3 RS with the rawness of a CGT would be a perfect dream.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    They have actually had a small number of waivers when compared with BMW and Aston Martin. I think the idea is to have a new car with as few waivers as possible and then progressively resort to waivers (if needed) in order to be able to keep up with the opposition.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    boytronic:

    The the latest copy of Porsche Post (UK) the Inside Line article states that Porsche hope to introduce a new version of the RSR in late 2014 based on the 991 GT3 (RS I assume) rather than the current 991 C4 base, if the new RSR is ready by then.

    From the latest rumours above, this RS sounds very exciting :)

    Yes, it sounds very exciting but I'm afraid that some people getting it instead of the GT3, may be disappointed. Maybe my source is right and I didn't give him enough credit, the rumor about the excellent track capabilities but less than stellar public road capabilities seems to be true. Those who ordered a GT3 RS shouldn't take this lightly if true because while the "raw" technology may be fun at first, the disadvantages on public roads may outweigh the initial fun. Careful! The GT3 may be the better (and much less expensive) choice.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    It will all depend on how much and for what purpose the RS will be used on public roads . It is to get a thrill once and a while , it could be fine . If it is to ' go to places '  , use it on a regular base , then maybe the GT3 is the better choice .

    As for myself, I need to see the final specs and ideally read a few driving impressions . If I get the RS, is will be my second car . A toy to play on the track, with once and a while a drive to the mountains . It will probably be some sort of garage queen , but the pleasure I could get on the track would outweigh that .   

    If I go at the end for the GT3 , I will surely use it more and take it ' to places ' . It will still be me 2nd car, but I could imagine that it will be used regularly .

    For the moment, the raw route tickles  me more then the more composed one ….  + I can get the  1st or maybe 2nd car from my dealer. That would mean an early delivery . If I would go for a GT3, I am not sure there are many allocations left for next year .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Got mine yesterday!

    Absolutely wonderful car! It's getting it's winter tires on saturday and then off to running it in!

    1385636250180GT3.jpg


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    TomTomGTA:

    Got mine yesterday!

    Absolutely wonderful car! It's getting it's winter tires on saturday and then off to running it in!

    1385636250180GT3.jpg

    Has Porsche already certified winter wheels for the GT3? Careful: If you are not using OEM rims/tires, Porsche could void the warranty when it comes to AWS issues. The electronic diff is also quite tire sensitive.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    TomTomGTA:

    Got mine yesterday!

    Absolutely wonderful car! It's getting it's winter tires on saturday and then off to running it in!

    Many congrats on the delivery, Tom. Looking forward to crossing you here on the roads Smiley


    --

    Porsche 911 GT3 - Guards Red 997 MKII Clubsport


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Yes the conformity cerificate has winter tires on it, same as Summer only the back one's are 295. I believe it's the same as for the Turbo. I've gone for Pirelli Sottozero's N0 rated.

    I've asked the dealer and he said no issues as the rolling diameter is only 4mm more with the 295's so that's well within tolerance of the car's systems. As for the wheels you can either fit the GT3's or theTurbo S's, dealer told me O.Z: is coming out with Superleggera's in centerlock with TüV in March and no issue with warranty with those either, so I will get those for the Wintertires next year.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    TomTomGTA:

    Yes the conformity cerificate has winter tires on it, same as Summer only the back one's are 295. I believe it's the same as for the Turbo. I've gone for Pirelli Sottozero's N0 rated.

    I've asked the dealer and he said no issues as the rolling diameter is only 4mm more with the 295's so that's well within tolerance of the car's systems. As for the wheels you can either fit the GT3's or theTurbo S's, dealer told me O.Z: is coming out with Superleggera's in centerlock with TüV in March and no issue with warranty with those either, so I will get those for the Wintertires next year.

    I saw a 991 GT3 with winter tires recently but it was a factory test car and it had the same wheels and tires I had on my Turbo S (Turbo S rims and Pirelli Sottozero Winter). I didn't know they were already approved/certified for customer cars, interesting. Thanks for the information. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:

    It will all depend on how much and for what purpose the RS will be used on public roads . It is to get a thrill once and a while , it could be fine . If it is to ' go to places '  , use it on a regular base , then maybe the GT3 is the better choice .

    As for myself, I need to see the final specs and ideally read a few driving impressions . If I get the RS, is will be my second car . A toy to play on the track, with once and a while a drive to the mountains . It will probably be some sort of garage queen , but the pleasure I could get on the track would outweigh that .   

    If I go at the end for the GT3 , I will surely use it more and take it ' to places ' . It will still be me 2nd car, but I could imagine that it will be used regularly .

    For the moment, the raw route tickles  me more then the more composed one ….  + I can get the  1st or maybe 2nd car from my dealer. That would mean an early delivery . If I would go for a GT3, I am not sure there are many allocations left for next year .

    I talk with my source about the shifter...he tell me he know it will be PDK...nothing about other...and he tell me to not worry too much about road driving capabilites,the car will NOT be a car to bring at circuit on a trailer...so...sure it will not be like a Turbo that you can use with ice and snow,and not a car to use every day...but still a "special car"

    and what we are searching?

     

    something special,or not?Smiley

     

    Smiley


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Dario, you are leaving something "essential" out of your equation: Being fast. If being fast in a car becomes a challenge, it will be only fun for drivers who really care more about the experience than the outcome. Since I do not know you too well, I cannot say much about it but for me, the RS would definitely be the wrong car for street driving. Since you had 911 Turbos before, I'm just worried that while your initial RS driving experience will be amazing (different, raw), on the long run, you may be disappointed because to be fast on a public road, you need to be very very careful with the RS. This is not a forgiving car on public roads. Nothing more and nothing less. wink


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I also emailed my source about 991 GT3 RS gearbox and get pretty enigmatic answer:"... not the same gearbox is in 991 GT3. Definitely, something more track focused and more special..."

    Hmm... He can not give me more info at this stage although car is basically ready for production according to what he wrote to me.

    About using it as a daily driver he wrote:"...GT3 is not in any form a ture daily/all year usable sportscar but, normal GT3 is better hear by wide margin then forthcoming 991 GT3 RS. Personally, I would not use either as daily driver sportscar-we have something way better in portfolio for that kind of usage-991 Turbo S!"

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Honestly guys, I've driven quite a few fast cars and am racing in historics. From the little (+/-150km) I've driven the 991 GT3 I really have to say the car has a perfect balance between useability and rawness. It's a real pussycat in auto with standard damper settings (much more resolved and refined than my GTR), the PDK in auto (not sport) shifts like a real Auto 'box. BUT if you go manual and give it the beans it is a REAL drivers car, it is tricky to drive it fast, very rewarding.

    I didn't imagine it would be as involving as it is, if you push you need to stay VERY concentrated otherwise it might catch you out. Feels more like a 964 RS than a modern car. It's very involving. I know it sounds cheesy but Preuninger hit it on the head when he talked about emotional, it is! It is not really going to make it easier for track newbies than previous generations of the GT3, you STILL have to know how to drive fast!

    To be honest with you I really do not like Porsche's and always swore I'd never buy one but I don't regret buying this car a single second, it is exactly what I was looking for.

    To sum up I would say, if you want a fast or the fastest thing, which is going to let driver errors pass and make you feel like a driving god, buy a McLaren or an Italia or best a GTR. If you feel you are a good driver and really are the GT3 will make you feel like the Zeus of all driving gods (and look good doing soSmiley)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    TomTomGTA:

    Honestly guys, I've driven quite a few fast cars and am racing in historics. From the little (+/-150km) I've driven the 991 GT3 I really have to say the car has a perfect balance between useability and rawness. It's a real pussycat in auto with standard damper settings (much more resolved and refined than my GTR), the PDK in auto (not sport) shifts like a real Auto 'box. BUT if you go manual and give it the beans it is a REAL drivers car, it is tricky to drive it fast, very rewarding.

    I didn't imagine it would be as involving as it is, if you push you need to stay VERY concentrated otherwise it might catch you out. Feels more like a 964 RS than a modern car. It's very involving. I know it sounds cheesy but Preuninger hit it on the head when he talked about emotional, it is! It is not really going to make it easier for track newbies than previous generations of the GT3, you STILL have to know how to drive fast!

    To be honest with you I really do not like Porsche's and always swore I'd never buy one but I don't regret buying this car a single second, it is exactly what I was looking for.

    To sum up I would say, if you want a fast or the fastest thing, which is going to let driver errors pass and make you feel like a driving god, buy a McLaren or an Italia or best a GTR. If you feel you are a good driver and really are the GT3 will make you feel like the Zeus of all driving gods (and look good doing soSmiley)

    Welcome to the "Club". Smiley

    I'm glad you like your GT3. I think it is a perfect compromise between a raw sports car and a street car and the price tag is quite attractive too if you compare it to other cars. For me however, the GT3 (as the only weekend fun car) would be the wrong product. I drive my car in winter too, also when it rains. I often move my family, incl. two kids, in the car. The GT3 would be my "second" choice when it comes to a weekend fun car but only if I could afford to own both, the GT3 and my current 991 Turbo S.

    Regarding good and bad drivers: I was a rally pro and I never met someone to outrun me (in a similar car), street or track but I have much more confidence in driving a 991 Turbo S instead of a GT3 because, like you said, you never know and everyone makes a driving error at some point. On the track, driving errors aren't that critical (well, depends...) but on a public road, there is not much of an error margin left I'm afraid. For someone who uses his car for mostly street driving, I think that the GT3 is more than enough to provide the driving fun someone seeks, without putting him too much in danger. The GT3 RS however will be a different beast I'm afraid and potential owners need to be aware of it. It is no fun to drive a car which is constantly challenging the driver on public roads. It gets tiresome fast because you really need to pay attention all the time and not everyone is ready to do that, especially with a weekend fun car.

    I remember when many 996 Turbo owners criticized the car for not being involving enough, for being too neutral and many of these owners switched to the 996 GT2 when it came out. I also remember how many GT2 were crashed after that and how many 996 Turbo owners regretted the switch. Smiley

    There are many good drivers out there but the best drivers are those who know their limits and also what car suits them best. This isn't always obvious and a wrong buying choice can become very costly fast.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    Dario, you are leaving something "essential" out of your equation: Being fast. If being fast in a car becomes a challenge, it will be only fun for drivers who really care more about the experience than the outcome. Since I do not know you too well, I cannot say much about it but for me, the RS would definitely be the wrong car for street driving. Since you had 911 Turbos before, I'm just worried that while your initial RS driving experience will be amazing (different, raw), on the long run, you may be disappointed because to be fast on a public road, you need to be very very careful with the RS. This is not a forgiving car on public roads. Nothing more and nothing less. wink


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    yes Christian,i understand what you whant to tell,but in last times i'm not able to drive "so fast" also with my 997TT,i love to hear how much it can go,but not able to make a few kms FAST,due to traffic,roads and...head SmileySmiley only some shot on free roads(one times a day,two?!)

    So,thinking to kms i will do in a year..maybe 5000,maybe less..my car for sure will be a garage queen,so i think that a more exclusive(respect a TTS) RS will give me more emotion the times i take on,and if on road the things will goes worse again(limits,traffic,etc.) i will go more often to a track...here around there are a few,and i think also the RS will be happy Smiley


    Really,maybe i will go wrong,but this time i whant to try...sell it like new after an year,i think for sure will be better (money talking),than sell a TTS after an year...

    For sure it will be a car to drive thinking to drive and not to drive and think to other...hahahSmiley at least will take my minds out of workSmileySmiley

     

    good luck to me.Smiley(and others with an RS on order)Smiley

     

     


    --

    997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Tom tom - no running in ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Regarding good and bad drivers: I was a rally pro and I never met someone to outrun me (in a similar car), street or track but I have much more confidence in driving a 991 Turbo S instead of a GT3 because, like you said, you never know and everyone makes a driving error at some point. On the track, driving errors aren't that critical (well, depends...) but on a public road, there is not much of an error margin left I'm afraid.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    What kind of rally did you in the past? May I ask about the cars and the events?

    Concerning the GT3 on public roads, and in particular country-roads, I think it will not be likely to come in dangerous situations as long as you stay within the limits given by the law. I will not talk about semi-slicks in the rain, just about country roads within the limits and no aquaplaning.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Group N national. Lancia Delta HF Integrale. AM Motorsport, mentor was Ronald Holzer (I guess this name tells you something). wink

    As to driving in a GT3 on a public road: I know many GT3 owners (older version but I assume it applies to owners of the new version too) and not a single one actually stays within the limits imposed by traffic laws. This would actually render the GT3 useless for normal street driving. There are deserted country roads, some with a pretty good visibility due to the lack of trees or other obstructions. Then, there are those (illegal) events where owners meet and have a blast on public roads, with a "tracking" car driving in front of them to alert them of road conditions. Well... Smiley

    I'm not naive, I know that many GT3 and GT3 RS owners drive their car past the legal limits on public roads, this is why I think that the GT3 RS may not be right car for that purpose. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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