Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    W8MM:

    Number of accidents sounds convincing, but the number of accidents per distance (miles or km) driven is the only sensible metric.

    That is what those well organized Germans did. Same distance, identical road, different speed. Result is in my post above.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Do you have an official source for this? Just curious. The only data I could find from the German statistic agency said while 70% of fatal accidents occur on unrestricted parts of the Autobahn,  70% of the German Autobahn is unrestricted. So just based on the total number of deaths there is no effect. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    This may be the dumbest argument ever discussed on RT. Intelligent people actually arguing the faster you go in a vehicle the safer you are. Now I understand the Trump attraction.surprise


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    This may be the dumbest argument ever discussed on RT. Intelligent people actually arguing the faster you go in a vehicle the safer you are. Now I understand the Trump attraction.surprise

    Think of it this way Nick: If you drive faster you arrive at your destination faster, which means less time spent on the road and so if you spend less time on the road you are less likely to have an accident than if you spend more time. Smiley​​​​

    The two most common reasons for accidents, especially fatal ones, are driving under the influence and distracted driving. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    AP911:
    nberry:

    This may be the dumbest argument ever discussed on RT. Intelligent people actually arguing the faster you go in a vehicle the safer you are. Now I understand the Trump attraction.surprise

    Think of it this way Nick: If you drive faster you arrive at your destination faster, which means less time spent on the road and so if you spend less time on the road you are less likely to have an accident than if you spend more time. Smiley​​​​

    The two most common reasons for accidents, especially fatal ones, are driving under the influence and distracted driving. 

     

    And either of these can be fatal even at city speed, both to the driver or to people outside.

    The counter to that might be saying the impaired driver sped up and went above the speed limit, hence the fight against 'speed', but they conveniently forget that because of the impaired-ness, the driver lost track of speed. 

    Take any two driver, get one drunk, or have him/her texting on the phone, while driving at 80km/hr, keep the other one sober, and have him drive at 240km/hr, which driver you think is going to crash?

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    This may be the dumbest argument ever discussed on RT. Intelligent people actually arguing the faster you go in a vehicle the safer you are.

    +1

    But hey Nick, driving with your eyes closed at 30km/h is more dangerous than driving with your eyes open at 100km/h 

     


    --

     

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    I'm surprised that on a sportscar board with experimented drivers some would have such a simplistic view.

    Sure, we could all go at 90km/h on a highway and have a few less accidents, why not 60 even better, at 10km/h we would be like bumper cars, no real accidents at all. But we can't do that obviously because the more you reduce the speed of traffic on high speed transit ways the more you are going to impact other things, like productivity, communications, etc. 

    The point is that accidents on highways are mostly not due to speed, but rather distractions and driving under the influence, so decreasing speed limits further does not have that big an impact as lay people think while it has detrimental effects that they don't see, but this is not politically correct for our populist politicians, enforcing stricter speed limits makes it looks like they are doing something while also being very economically profitable with speedtrap enforcement, win win.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Tim:

    Do you have an official source for this? Just curious. The only data I could find from the German statistic agency said while 70% of fatal accidents occur on unrestricted parts of the Autobahn,  70% of the German Autobahn is unrestricted. So just based on the total number of deaths there is no effect. 

    Don't worry, bluelines loves to combine fiction with reality, while discrediting those who come up with solid arguments, so it sounds more believable. Smiley Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Just adding this - it is the speed difference between cars which causes problems.  Someone going too slow will cause more accidents than someone flowing with traffic. Go too slow and you lose concentration. Ever watch Senna @ Monaco?  In the lead he slowed to conserve tires or something. Smacked the wall coming out of the tunnel - because he slowed down. 
    As a systems guy I totally understand the key is everyone following the rules. Especially using turn signals each time to be aware of the other lives being risked.  The fact is if everyone followed every instruction and rule other than speed then soled would not be a problem - provided you drive within your control and conditions. 
    In almost all accidents the cause of as a person not following the pattern or rules.  Speeding by itself is not as dangerous as ignoring rules and common courtesy. 
    I won’t mention Trump (miss him too a highway time I watch the elder abuse) but it is a fairly left wing approach to slow everyone else down and make them late for work or stuck crawling in traffic while speeding in a GT3. 
    To put it in another way - if you follow the other rules speed is soooo much safer.   I would trade steep tickets for all other violations in exchange for higher speed limits. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    This may be the dumbest argument ever discussed on RT. Intelligent people actually arguing the faster you go in a vehicle the safer you are. Now I understand the Trump attraction.surprise

    Maybe I have missed an argument, but I didn't see anyone making this claim. 

    The only argument I and several others have been trying to make is that imposing a general speed limit does NOT necessarily mean you will have less fatal accidents (at least based on the data that is readily available). There are simply too many other factors that come into play (e.g., not adjusting your driving style to weather conditions, not keeping safety distances, not adjusting your speed to general traffic conditions, etc.).

    BTW - this initiative by Volvo and Renault is a pure marketing plot. What difference does it make to the general public whether your car can drive 180 or 200kp/h? If they truely wanted to make a point they would impose a limit at 140-150. 

     

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Tim:
    nberry:

    This may be the dumbest argument ever discussed on RT. Intelligent people actually arguing the faster you go in a vehicle the safer you are. Now I understand the Trump attraction.surprise

    Maybe I have missed an argument, but I didn't see anyone making this claim. 

    The only argument I and several others have been trying to make is that imposing a general speed limit does NOT necessarily mean you will have less fatal accidents (at least based on the data that is readily available). There are simply too many other factors that come into play (e.g., not adjusting your driving style to weather conditions, not keeping safety distances, not adjusting your speed to general traffic conditions, etc.).

    BTW - this initiative by Volvo and Renault is a pure marketing plot. What difference does it make to the general public whether your car can drive 180 or 200kp/h? If they truely wanted to make a point they would impose a limit at 140-150. 

     

     

     

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Speed difference is probably the biggest danger. This weekend someone destroyed his Ferrari near RC’s hometown driving 300km/h when another car changed the lane in front of him. Of course the car shouldn’t change the lane when a car is approaching. But if I remember correctly even in Germany the courts sentence the fast driver to partial guilt if he drives significantly faster than average (130km/h=Richtgeschwindigkeit). The Ferrari driver survived without being injured (lucky man, he should celebrate his birthday twice a year in the future)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Speed limits are not just there to bring down casualties. On the highways they are there to monitor traffic . When the highways become saturated, driving at a slower pace will greatly reduce traffic jams because it avoids the sudden heavy braking , fast/slow,  that eventually, with it's repercussions on the cars behind, turns into jams. 

    So with traffic getting heavier and heavier , highways not being able to become larger and larger, imposing slower speed limits makes it possible to absorb the extra traffic.  

     


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Tim:
    nberry:

    This may be the dumbest argument ever discussed on RT. Intelligent people actually arguing the faster you go in a vehicle the safer you are. Now I understand the Trump attraction.surprise

    Maybe I have missed an argument, but I didn't see anyone making this claim. 

    The only argument I and several others have been trying to make is that imposing a general speed limit does NOT necessarily mean you will have less fatal accidents (at least based on the data that is readily available). There are simply too many other factors that come into play (e.g., not adjusting your driving style to weather conditions, not keeping safety distances, not adjusting your speed to general traffic conditions, etc.).

    BTW - this initiative by Volvo and Renault is a pure marketing plot. What difference does it make to the general public whether your car can drive 180 or 200kp/h? If they truely wanted to make a point they would impose a limit at 140-150. 

     

     

     

     

    A Volvo is much safer at 180km/hr than at 200km/hr. Farmer here and I were on the Autobahn in a Volvo rental, the car became light and felt dangerous at or above 200km/hr, once we slow down to ~180km/hr it is fine. 

    Fact.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Gnil:

    Speed limits are not just there to bring down casualties. On the highways they are there to monitor traffic . When the highways become saturated, driving at a slower pace will greatly reduce traffic jams because it avoids the sudden heavy braking , fast/slow,  that eventually, with it's repercussions on the cars behind, turns into jams. 

    So with traffic getting heavier and heavier , highways not being able to become larger and larger, imposing slower speed limits makes it possible to absorb the extra traffic.  

     


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

     

    That's called concertina effect. 

    Someone at the front inadvertently step on a brakes for one reason or another and those that follows starts the cascading effect and if someone is not paying attention to where they are going then something bad will happened. 

    Speed makes absolutely no difference as accidents will still happen if someone isn't looking at the road ahead. For someone travelling at 200-3000km/hr, if they keep theirs eyes up the road, they would have seen what is happening and slow down first. But if someone is not looking, they will still crash into the cars in front even travelling at 80 or 100km/hr. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Leawood made a very very good point, it's the difference in speed that's the danger. Most of the >1 car accidents that happened on the Autobahn, or any other highway for that matters, is someone moving to the passing lane without checking the mirrors to see if someone is coming up. 


    --

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Gnil:

    Speed limits are not just there to bring down casualties. On the highways they are there to monitor traffic . When the highways become saturated, driving at a slower pace will greatly reduce traffic jams because it avoids the sudden heavy braking , fast/slow,  that eventually, with it's repercussions on the cars behind, turns into jams. 

    So with traffic getting heavier and heavier , highways not being able to become larger and larger, imposing slower speed limits makes it possible to absorb the extra traffic.  

     


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

    That's the reason adaptive speed limits make sense - if there is a lot of traffic, bad weather or whatever, bring down the speed limit to increase capacity/ safety. On an empty Autobahn in perfect conditions, lift the limit. One can also use this to bring down the speed delta in situation where traffic is dense but you can still drive very fast in the left lane. 

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Carlos from Spain:

    The point is that accidents on highways are mostly not due to speed, but rather distractions and driving under the influence, so decreasing speed limits further does not have that big an impact as lay people think

    Introducing a speed limit on German highway stretches has halved the number of accidents on that stretch. There are multiple studies on this with official data and results. If 50% is not a big impact then I don’t know what you expect?

    Most of you seem to have limited experience or even exposure to operational risk management and confuse risk, impact, mitigation and residual risk. Hence the incorrect conclusion that reducing speed does not help.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Conspiracy from the speed limiter manufacturers? indecision


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    bluelines:
    Carlos from Spain:

    The point is that accidents on highways are mostly not due to speed, but rather distractions and driving under the influence, so decreasing speed limits further does not have that big an impact as lay people think

    Introducing a speed limit on German highway stretches has halved the number of accidents on that stretch. There are multiple studies on this with official data and results. If 50% is not a big impact then I don’t know what you expect?

    Most of you seem to have limited experience or even exposure to operational risk management and confuse risk, impact, mitigation and residual risk. Hence the incorrect conclusion that reducing speed does not help.

    Simplistic thinking, but humans aren't that simple, and ask yourself who made those studies... Guess you never heard of Montana? Like I said, not so simple. Just cutting down speed is not the solution, that is shortsighted.

    https://www.motorists.org/press/montana-no-speed-limit-safety-paradox/


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Carlos, Christian, Nick and the rest of you, if you believe what you posted here, I assume you told your children of driving age that it is safer to drive at high speeds. 


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Carlos, Christian, Nick and the rest of you, if you believe what you posted here, I assume you told your children of driving age that it is safer to drive at high speeds. 

    Don't think you understand what we are saying. Let me put it to you another way, the reasons behind lowering speed limits had nothing to do with decreasing accidents, that is just the excuse for those that don't know better, the real reasons are varied that range from pressure from environmental groups to infrastructure investment saving, you know what has clearly shown a decrease in accidents? investing on improving roads, but it's easier to just post a lower limit on the road and put a speed trap, win-win. It's not that lowering a the died limit under certain circumstances can decrease accidents but in others or won't and will always have negative consecuentes, there point is there are other interventions that will lower accidents and also fatalities (not the same thing, look at germany'sv autobahn accident medical assistance infrastructure and think why fatality per accident is so much higher in the US with lower limits) but those aren't being addressed, it's easier just to arbitrarily lower limits.

    BTW driving faster than the traffic is safer than driving with the traffic.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Carlos, Christian, Nick and the rest of you, if you believe what you posted here, I assume you told your children of driving age that it is safer to drive at high speeds. 

    And I assume you just don't want to understand.
    It's overly simplistic to say that less speed is automatically safer. Modern cars are so accomplished that driving at 130kp/h for most is a very boring task. That's the reason people get distracted and start fiddling with their cell phones, eat food or whatever. It's just human nature. So while the risk of dying in a car accident of course is less likely at lower speeds (that's just physics), the risk of actually having a car accident might be higher because you are not as focused, don't keep proper safety distances... . So yes driving faster /or more precisely focused driving) can actually be safer than slower driving.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    bluelines:
    Carlos from Spain:

    The point is that accidents on highways are mostly not due to speed, but rather distractions and driving under the influence, so decreasing speed limits further does not have that big an impact as lay people think

    Introducing a speed limit on German highway stretches has halved the number of accidents on that stretch. There are multiple studies on this with official data and results. If 50% is not a big impact then I don’t know what you expect?

    Most of you seem to have limited experience or even exposure to operational risk management and confuse risk, impact, mitigation and residual risk. Hence the incorrect conclusion that reducing speed does not help.

    That's what people say when they know they are running out of arguments. Smiley


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    I was going to mention Montana. There are certainly places in this world where raising the speed limits would be totally safe and save lives - and also a precious little thing called time which some need to earn money and enjoy life.  
    There are many more important laws and driving habits than just speed.  I’m willing to let someone who follows all the rules set the speed limit, as this person would understand what is really important.  Other than that though I prefer to drive at a safe speed of my choosing -  thank you Mike!!!!!!  Saved me two tickets last week alone. Hundreds over many many years of proud Valentine ownership.  The only accessory I ever add to all my cars. I protect it like my Rolex. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Carlos, Christian, Nick and the rest of you, if you believe what you posted here, I assume you told your children of driving age that it is safer to drive at high speeds. 

     

    And I told my driving age son that PAYING ATTENTION to where he is going IS THE MOST IMPORTANT!!! Staying alert and check surroundings is the most important factor for safe driving. 

    It does not matter the speed, how fast or slow he is going, if he is not paying attention he is a dangerous driver.

    He pays enough attention when driving that he already knows where the traffic cop likes to hide or can spot them early and slow down for the idiots. 

    Oh, and he already knows to keep appropriate speed for the driving conditions. In snow conditions, he is travelling even below the speed limits. 

    And to directly answer your question, I didn't have to tell my son, he told me himself that driving around the city at city speed is so much more dangerous and stressful than driving on highway at highway speed. There aren't any cyclists weaving through traffic nor pedestrians jumping out suddenly. Nor parked cars that don't check mirrors and just drive out, or people running red lights, or drivers doing left turns across moving traffic. All of the above is HIS comments back to me, he's only been driving for about 2 years. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Nick, paying attention is good advice if your traveling at speeds which allow the car and driver to react.

    Tim, your argument about boredom doesn’t make sense. If you’re bored, it’s more dangerous to drive at high speeds because your not paying attention. Read my response to Carlos. 

    Carlos, you have a warped opinion of government. You think there is evil intent of most government actions. However, I do agree that travel at slower speeds will bring more traffic around you. But with more traffic a driver becomes more aware. 

    We all want to defend our precious high performance sport cars. They are fun and provide us an escape from the mundane. But let’s not fool ourselves. The escape we seek has everything to do with risk. To attempt to justify the risk by claiming it’s not risk but safety is like playing Russian Roulette but telling yourself the car is empty. When it isn’t. enlightened


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    I am all in favor of higher speed limits. I love driving fast. But let's stay real here. Higher speeds are more dangerous.Try to crash at 200 km/h and let's see if you are as safe as crashing at 100 km/h. 

     


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Whoopsy:

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

     

    That's called concertina effect. 

    Someone at the front inadvertently step on a brakes for one reason or another and those that follows starts the cascading effect and if someone is not paying attention to where they are going then something bad will happened. 

    Speed makes absolutely no difference as accidents will still happen if someone isn't looking at the road ahead. For someone travelling at 200-3000km/hr, if they keep theirs eyes up the road, they would have seen what is happening and slow down first. But if someone is not looking, they will still crash into the cars in front even travelling at 80 or 100km/hr. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Leawood made a very very good point, it's the difference in speed that's the danger. Most of the >1 car accidents that happened on the Autobahn, or any other highway for that matters, is someone moving to the passing lane without checking the mirrors to see if someone is coming up. 

    The speed will make a difference. People stay much more regular at a speed of 80 km/h then at 130 km/h. If there is braking for some reason, the difference of speed will be fast less when driving 80 so the '' concertina'' effect is also reduced. we have congested highways in my area. Studies have been made to see what is the best speed to lessen the traffic jams. Sadly, lowering the speed does lessen the jams. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Gnil:

    I am all in favor of higher speed limits. I love driving fast. But let's stay real here. Higher speeds are more dangerous.Try to crash at 200 km/h and let's see if you are as safe as crashing at 100 km/h. 

     

    Why would you crash at 200 kph? Smiley Or at 100 kph for that matter? Smiley

    This is why we have something called anticipatory driving. Good drivers do that. It comes with experience and age (aka wisdom Smiley). Of course shit happens but when it happens, it usually happens when we expect it the least.

    I am much more concerned about technical defects and issues than the driving speed/style itself. This is why I do not "experiment" with brakes, tires and stuff like that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Nick, paying attention is good advice if your traveling at speeds which allow the car and driver to react.

    Tim, your argument about boredom doesn’t make sense. If you’re bored, it’s more dangerous to drive at high speeds because your not paying attention. Read my response to Carlos. 

    Carlos, you have a warped opinion of government. You think there is evil intent of most government actions. However, I do agree that travel at slower speeds will bring more traffic around you. But with more traffic a driver becomes more aware. 

    We all want to defend our precious high performance sport cars. They are fun and provide us an escape from the mundane. But let’s not fool ourselves. The escape we seek has everything to do with risk. To attempt to justify the risk by claiming it’s not risk but safety is like playing Russian Roulette but telling yourself the car is empty. When it isn’t. enlightened

    It makes total sense. If you travel at higher speeds, you become more alert. Google Yerkes-Dodson law - I think it's very intuitive. I can certainly attest that I'm a worse driver when not fully paying attention at lower speeds.
    Also to be fully clear - I'm not saying that driving faster is generally better/ safer, all I'm saying is that the notion of lower speeds = less fatalities is too simplistic. The official data from Germany certainly seems to support this.   
    Anyway, I think we are going in circles. I don't think we have enough data to really bring this debate to a proper conclusion. 


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    586579 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    359350 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
    87139 1085
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 5/12/21 3:30 PM
    WhoopsyM
    45570 344
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    35715 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    33583 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 5/11/21 3:34 PM
    watt
    17035 344
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4750 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    566893 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    408681 3586
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/25/21 4:04 PM
    Topspeed
    359039 3916
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 4/29/21 7:24 AM
    GnilM
    356646 3494
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    318373 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    310353 2646
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    219330 1542
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    197538 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    161457 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138368 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 5/18/21 11:19 PM
    xpto
    123333 2376
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    107017 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77421 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 5/18/21 6:01 PM
    WhoopsyM
    71585 1164
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    65244 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    64306 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    57755 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    43594 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/21 3:42 PM
    RCA
    36782 476
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    34279 615
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 5/19/21 3:20 AM
    mcdelaug
    31570 487
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    28878 385
    273 items found, displaying 1 to 30.