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    the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    http://windingroad.com/article/2005_octo...Ferrari_F430_L3

    there is a link for the whole articale at the bottom
    One is fast and dangerously fun, the other fun and dangerously fast. Who's number one?

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Ferrari 430 is #1.

    Buy one of each.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    If only the market wasn't not demanding $50k over list, I would definitely consider one. In my book, the 430 gets my vote.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Ferrari 430 is #1.

    Buy one of each.



    Strad,

    I wonder how the 997TT will stack up against the F430. I wonder too about a 996TT comparo. vs. the F430-but they left that out of the Winding Road profiles.

    I take it you plan to keep your F-car (and are you replacing it with a 430 Coupe or Spider)? You should write a review for rennteam of F vs. P-TT (997) when the latter comes out.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    http://windingroad.com/article/2005_octo...Ferrari_F430_L3

    there is a link for the whole articale at the bottom
    One is fast and dangerously fun, the other fun and dangerously fast. Who's number one?



    Nice read, thanks. One glaring mistake is at the end: the 997 is a four passenger car not two.

    I just had to nitpick sorry

    Even though the author prefered the Ferrari, this quote was intersting:

    "While I find a lot to like in the F430, after time in the Carrera S I'm getting a little worried that the whole of the F430 is less than the sum of the parts. The Porsche is all of a piece, full of feedback and carefully considered"

    Thanks again Ocean,
    Kurt

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    It says a lot that a car costing half the price is so close . I guess when the turbo gets here it could take that #1 one spot and still be less money . It is not really fair to compare as they are really different animals . STRADALE has the right idea having both . It does seem that the 911 is much more practical for many reasons and if it is going to be your only car It is probably the better choice .

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    both.

    that's my PHILOSOPHY of LIFE~~!!



    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    The 997 Turbo is the only real benchmark to test the F430 against - though the fact that the 997 Carrera S can even be compared to the F430 is an amazing achievement!

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Ferrari 430 is #1.

    Buy one of each.



    Strad,

    I wonder how the 997TT will stack up against the F430. I wonder too about a 996TT comparo. vs. the F430-but they left that out of the Winding Road profiles.

    I take it you plan to keep your F-car (and are you replacing it with a 430 Coupe or Spider)? You should write a review for rennteam of F vs. P-TT (997) when the latter comes out.



    I think the performance will be very, very close.

    Replacing it with a 430 coupe.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    ...the benchmark is the gallardo. any 911 is a different type of sports car, heavily swayed more towards a ferrari mid engined..but with a hint of traditional 4 seat coupe:)

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    ...the benchmark is the gallardo. any 911 is a different type of sports car, heavily swayed more towards a ferrari mid engined..but with a hint of traditional 4 seat coupe:)



    Love the Gallardo but it's hardly the benchmark imo.
    Not nearly as fantastic looking and exciting to drive as the 430 and not nearly as useable as an everyday sports car like a 996 Turbo.
    Have to admit with the way the Gallardo PRE-owned prices have fallen I've been toying with the idea of buying one instead of a 997 Turbo to use everyday. This week on F-cat some guy offered his E-gear w/ a couple of thousand miles for $145k. Said he was offering at that price because that's what he is being offfered in trade. The Gallardo for the price of a Turbo S. If only the Gallardo Spider was already out and out long enough to buy cheaply.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Pics I took couple of months ago.
    My favorite Gallardo color

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    2

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    I personally think the Gallardo is a neat car but some of my friends who are Lambo guys look down upon the Gallardo as the "Boxster Lambo". They cite things such as size, wrong engine and wrong doors to be called a Lambo; I think that in time the car may be more accepted by its own peers in the Lambo community. The one thing I thought was cheesy though is how the interior is "bespoke AudiA$ interior!" very sad in $ 180k car.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Forgive my ignorance, but what is your guys overall opinion of the Lamborghini quality (or even Ferrari for that matter)?

    A huge part of my car purchase decisions are based on quality (or my personal perception thereof). I purchased my 997s because of past experience (first P-car was a Guards Red 964), and have never had a problem with either.

    I already know the basic information about Ferrari/Lamborghini (price, performance, the fact that the F430 is the most beautiful car I have ever seen), but was wondering about some of the intangibles (quality, maintenance, etc...).

    Thanks,

    Tim 'god I love my car' Pfannes

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    tpfannes said:
    Forgive my ignorance, but what is your guys overall opinion of the Lamborghini quality (or even Ferrari for that matter)?

    A huge part of my car purchase decisions are based on quality (or my personal perception thereof). I purchased my 997s because of past experience (first P-car was a Guards Red 964), and have never had a problem with either.

    I already know the basic information about Ferrari/Lamborghini (price, performance, the fact that the F430 is the most beautiful car I have ever seen), but was wondering about some of the intangibles (quality, maintenance, etc...).

    Thanks,

    Tim 'god I love my car' Pfannes



    Ferrari was aware of its poor quality image several years ago. They decided to fix the problem and with the 360, they vastly improved the quality. In the 430, it is even better. The 430 reeks of quality through and through.

    Maintenance is no worse than Porsche or Lambo.

    However, many putative potential buyers often rationalize themselves out of buying a Ferrari based on old and inaccurate quality maintenance issue. In my view, that is good for those of us who own and will buy future Ferrari's. The less people buying Ferrari's, the more available to those of us who appreciate the car.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    tpfannes said:
    Forgive my ignorance, but what is your guys overall opinion of the Lamborghini quality (or even Ferrari for that matter)?

    A huge part of my car purchase decisions are based on quality (or my personal perception thereof). I purchased my 997s because of past experience (first P-car was a Guards Red 964), and have never had a problem with either.

    I already know the basic information about Ferrari/Lamborghini (price, performance, the fact that the F430 is the most beautiful car I have ever seen), but was wondering about some of the intangibles (quality, maintenance, etc...).

    Thanks,

    Tim 'god I love my car' Pfannes



    Ferrari was aware of its poor quality image several years ago. They decided to fix the problem and with the 360, they vastly improved the quality. In the 430, it is even better. The 430 reeks of quality through and through.

    Maintenance is no worse than Porsche or Lambo.

    However, many putative potential buyers often rationalize themselves out of buying a Ferrari based on old and inaccurate quality maintenance issue. In my view, that is good for those of us who own and will buy future Ferrari's. The less people buying Ferrari's, the more available to those of us who appreciate the car.


    Maintenance maybe similar among all three, but that's only because Ferrari finally dropped the belt drive camshafts used on previous models....

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    However, many putative potential buyers often rationalize themselves out of buying a Ferrari based on old and inaccurate quality maintenance issue. In my view, that is good for those of us who own and will buy future Ferrari's. The less people buying Ferrari's, the more available to those of us who appreciate the car.



    Nick,

    Maybe I'll do my part to decrease the availability of a Ferrari to you with a future purchase of my own.

    One question, my disadvantage is the nearest dealer to me is 300 miles away. Others have pointed out that this is not as bad as it seems. Do you have experience or knowledge of Ferrari service in terms of distance from a shop, parts and routine maintenance difficulties? My work/family life is busy enough, so I have limited time for getting cars fixed (don't we all? ). Many thanks in advance.

    Al

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Ferrari was aware of its poor quality image several years ago. They decided to fix the problem and with the 360, they vastly improved the quality. In the 430, it is even better. The 430 reeks of quality through and through.

    Maintenance is no worse than Porsche or Lambo.

    However, many putative potential buyers often rationalize themselves out of buying a Ferrari based on old and inaccurate quality maintenance issue. In my view, that is good for those of us who own and will buy future Ferrari's. The less people buying Ferrari's, the more available to those of us who appreciate the car.



    This is very true. From what I hear Ferrari quality has been greatly improved since the 360.

    In regards to the comparison, the 997S is a great car, but it's just not on the same level as the 430 for me.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Al,

    I think that these days you wouldn't have any problems being 300 miles away from the nearest F dealer as far as maintenance is concerned. More problematic is going to be getting a new one to start with! I live 3 miles away from an F dealer, get their mailings, bought 2 cars from them: Range Raover, 911 and can't even dream of being allowed to order a new F430. I was just informed that someone backed out of soon to arrive f430 coupe and I can have it for $20K over MSRP if I want it, to which I say no thanks even though it is probably a good deal at this point.
    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    However, many putative potential buyers often rationalize themselves out of buying a Ferrari based on old and inaccurate quality maintenance issue. In my view, that is good for those of us who own and will buy future Ferrari's. The less people buying Ferrari's, the more available to those of us who appreciate the car.



    Nick,

    Maybe I'll do my part to decrease the availability of a Ferrari to you with a future purchase of my own.

    One question, my disadvantage is the nearest dealer to me is 300 miles away. Others have pointed out that this is not as bad as it seems. Do you have experience or knowledge of Ferrari service in terms of distance from a shop, parts and routine maintenance difficulties? My work/family life is busy enough, so I have limited time for getting cars fixed (don't we all? ). Many thanks in advance.

    Al


    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Fred,

    I am aware of that supply issue. It makes me wonder that maybe Ferrari should be cranking up the "MSRP" on those cars, not that I advocate it. . . .

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Fred,

    I am aware of that supply issue. It makes me wonder that maybe Ferrari should be cranking up the "MSRP" on those cars, not that I advocate it. . . .



    430 has some $50K in possible options....a level of optionality not seen on 360...this may be F's subtle approach to ratcheting-up ASP's and profit margins (along w/incr'g proportion of Spiders vs Coupes), while quoting a relatively modest base MSRP......
    It's brand suicide to ever have to reduce MSRP if US mkt for F's weakens again....allegedly, only 10 yrs ago, FoSF had multiple new red/tan 355Spiders sitting on the lot looking for a home....

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Sadly 10 years ago I couldn't have thought about buying an F car, now I can and they are not available! I think I'll just wait and see what happens to the market, F is producing more cars than ever; they produced a ton of 360s and one can find one with very low miles for reasonable money these days and maybe in a couple of years the 430s might be a little more readily available.
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Fred,

    I am aware of that supply issue. It makes me wonder that maybe Ferrari should be cranking up the "MSRP" on those cars, not that I advocate it. . . .



    430 has some $50K in possible options....a level of optionality not seen on 360...this may be F's subtle approach to ratcheting-up ASP's and profit margins (along w/incr'g proportion of Spiders vs Coupes), while quoting a relatively modest base MSRP......
    It's brand suicide to ever have to reduce MSRP if US mkt for F's weakens again....allegedly, only 10 yrs ago, FoSF had multiple new red/tan 355Spiders sitting on the lot looking for a home....


    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    bostonmini said:
    ...the benchmark is the gallardo. any 911 is a different type of sports car, heavily swayed more towards a ferrari mid engined..but with a hint of traditional 4 seat coupe:)



    Love the Gallardo but it's hardly the benchmark imo.
    Not nearly as fantastic looking and exciting to drive as the 430 and not nearly as useable as an everyday sports car like a 996 Turbo.
    Have to admit with the way the Gallardo PRE-owned prices have fallen I've been toying with the idea of buying one instead of a 997 Turbo to use everyday. This week on F-cat some guy offered his E-gear w/ a couple of thousand miles for $145k. Said he was offering at that price because that's what he is being offfered in trade. The Gallardo for the price of a Turbo S. If only the Gallardo Spider was already out and out long enough to buy cheaply.



    WHAT!? Not nearly as fantastic looking!??? Look, peoples opinions differ greatly but the the F430 looks positively pedestrian compared to a Gallardo!

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    66 pages of options in the order guide ... reminds me of Starbucks

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    VKSF said:

    430 has some $50K in possible options....a level of optionality not seen on 360...this may be F's subtle approach to ratcheting-up ASP's and profit margins (along w/incr'g proportion of Spiders vs Coupes), while quoting a relatively modest base MSRP......




    Yes,

    I jumped on the FNA website last night and noticed that their F430 options list looked "Porschesque." My local P-mechanic describes the Porsche option list as a reproduction of the Manhattan phone book. The F430 list might be starting to look like a San Fran phone book.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    "you can not be serious"

    Yes, I am.
    Like I said, peoples oppinions differ, so I'm not saying you have bad taste, but I've seen the cars, next to each other. And In MY OPPINION, the Lambo is much better looking.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Ocean said: 66 pages of options in the order guide ... reminds me of Starbucks.
    Close but the prices are higher at Starbucks!

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S


    Believe it or not, even if the Porsche Option book looks like the Manhattan phone book, 1/3 of Porsche buyers aren't happy with it and they have to go with the Exclusive Program !!!!

    No need to say, this is absolutely wonderful on a margin standpoint .....

    The average option take-up rate is between 10-12% for the Boxster to over 20% on the Cayenne with the 911 somewhere around 15-17% !!!

    Europeans are the ones that spec their Porsches the most. In North America buyers don't want to wait, therefore they buy cars from dealers lot that are "less loaded with expensive goodies".

    I'm sure that Ferrari has all figured it out as well.

    Re: the Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera S

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    Believe it or not, even if the Porsche Option book looks like the Manhattan phone book, 1/3 of Porsche buyers aren't happy with it and they have to go with the Exclusive Program !!!!

    No need to say, this is absolutely wonderful on a margin standpoint .....

    The average option take-up rate is between 10-12% for the Boxster to over 20% on the Cayenne with the 911 somewhere around 15-17% !!!

    Europeans are the ones that spec their Porsches the most. In North America buyers don't want to wait, therefore they buy cars from dealers lot that are "less loaded with expensive goodies".

    I'm sure that Ferrari has all figured it out as well.



    So true....
    Very rare to even see major P dealers in a mkt like SF that are familiar w/how to spec a 996TTS w/deviated stitching and other Exclusive options (PCNA still isn't offering many Exclusive options on 997S)....I figured out the P option scheme more effectively than my P salesman w/20 yrs of expce....and it was my first P....

    And my F salesguy has pointed out that until last 3-4 yrs FNA would push back on dealers ordering much except for red/tan w/deminimus customization (afraid of cars being rejected by dealers/custs who have no idea what schemes look like live).....now FNA is very comfortable w/expcd dealers and serial, more sophisticated buyers doing all kinds of interesting (and very profitable) bespoke touches.....

     
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