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    Info from PCA

    What does everyone think on below info ? I got it off the Porsche Club America site............


    911 Turbo Engine

    performance specs for 2007 997 turbo
    Back to 911 Turbo

    Question

    I recently purchased the new 997 twin turbo, Tiptronic S. There is tremendous acceleration in excess of 3,000 rpm, but acceleration at lower rpm is very slow. Porsche states (per Philip Raby, article in July issue of Total 911, and confirmed directly with him) that the car accelerates from 50 mph to 75 mph in 3.5 seconds in 4th gear (without sports boost active), but after approximately 4 seconds the turbo has reached only about 57 mph. It feels like my Toyota Sequoia. My dealership states that the engine should wear in and provide better performance, but I doubt it will have anywhere near that much of an effect.

    I believe the professionals at my dealership do not have much direct exposure to the 997 turbo and understandably cannot provide the answer/solution until they have more experience. In the meantime can you provide some direction, or is there a branch of Porsche that deals with customer questions/issues with new vehicles/systems? I want my dealership to get feedback from Porsche, or let me do so directly.

    Answer

    When I first bought my 997TT I was thrilled and disappointed at the same time. All the hype of no lag, super fast low end and so on was not there. Given what I came out of I was not surprised by this however I was shocked how the car still had what I considered to be lag as compared to the 996TT. I know, one should not complain especially after the years I have spent in 930s. Heck, I still own one for that matter.

    After some testing several things became apparent. The first was the car does need to loosen up. Either the program is set to pull back or the motor is so tight that almost right at 1000 miles the car loosens up and makes more power. Companies are now getting wise and putting timed programs in to pull timing, TB parameters etc. I have not confirmed this but I have compared several 997TTs and they all do the same thing.

    The other interesting thing we found was the car carries an enormous amount of back pressure through the exhaust. The new variable turbos do not seems to like back pressure and want it less than the standard turbo. This is robbing the low end and creating what can almost be described as a stutter or drop off up top near read line in sport mode.

    The last thing is the there is already another software version with these cars. Whether or not the dealers know the cars have another mapping they are coming out with. This map seems to drastically help across the range.


    Stephen Kaspar - PCA WebSite - 1/1/2007

    Re: Info from PCA

    New software? Interesting. Notice the write-up is from Stephen from Imagine Auto, co-developers of the GIAC software my car runs to the tune of ~580-600hp

    Re: Info from PCA

    "Porsche states (per Philip Raby, article in July issue of Total 911, and confirmed directly with him) that the car accelerates from 50 mph to 75 mph in 3.5 seconds in 4th gear (without sports boost active), but after approximately 4 seconds the turbo has reached only about 57 mph. It feels like my Toyota Sequoia."


    Something sounds wrong. 4 seconds to go from 50 to 57mph?

    Re: Info from PCA

    Could it be related to this?
    http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75675

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    "Porsche states (per Philip Raby, article in July issue of Total 911, and confirmed directly with him) that the car accelerates from 50 mph to 75 mph in 3.5 seconds in 4th gear (without sports boost active), but after approximately 4 seconds the turbo has reached only about 57 mph. It feels like my Toyota Sequoia."


    Something sounds wrong. 4 seconds to go from 50 to 57mph?


    Re: Info from PCA

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Could it be related to this?
    http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75675

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    "Porsche states (per Philip Raby, article in July issue of Total 911, and confirmed directly with him) that the car accelerates from 50 mph to 75 mph in 3.5 seconds in 4th gear (without sports boost active), but after approximately 4 seconds the turbo has reached only about 57 mph. It feels like my Toyota Sequoia."


    Something sounds wrong. 4 seconds to go from 50 to 57mph?





    It must be. wow interesting stuff:


    "When comparing the 2 cars, the 6-speed car is making 15 PSI of boost about 820 RPMS sooner than the tiptronic car."

    "I noticed that the stock tip car and the EVT610 tip car had similar data logs and miss matched boost requests vs. actual boost and much more lag when compared to the respective 6-speed cars at similar RPMS"

    "OK, so why was this happening? Well after some more testing, sleepless nights and pondering the possible causes, I remember feeling a throttle step down switch on the tip cars @ WOT (Foot mashed to the floor). Typically automatic cars have these switches which when depressed, the engine would back down load to allow the auto transmission to downshift to prevent transmission and engine damage and allowing for a smoother shift. I then wondered if this could be causing the conflict between the TCU and the ECU when in manual mode and stomping on the throttle. I did some more testing and discovered that this was causing the boost delay and late spool up as compared to the 6-speed cars.


    I did some testing back and forth using the same car and data logging procedures. The only change that I made was the way I pressed the accelerator pedal. If I pressed the pedal to the throttle switch but not far enough to activate it, the car felt amazing. If I mashed the throttle and activated the switch, the engine/transmission felt conflicted until about 3800 RPMS where it had a slight hesitation and then continued its power sweep normally beyond 4000 RPMS.


    I confirmed this procedure many times on the road and could get it to repeat itself EVERY time. The data logs confirmed my hypothesis as well which lead me to the dyno testing. I wanted to test this procedure on the dyno to see how much power is being lost in manual mode with this switch activated vs. deactivated. I was amazed as to the outcome and now know why some customers were having sporadic inconsistent results with their tiptronic cars.


    The HP dyno below shows the same EVT610 Tiptronic car tested with and without the throttle step down switch activated compared to a stock 997TT tip with the throttle switch activated. At ~ 3247 RPMS both the stock (blue line) and the EVT610 (green line) are making ~ 170 AWHP at this point with the throttle switch activated. The (red line) is the same EVT610 Tip car in 3rd gear at WOT without the throttle switch activated. Power at 3247 RPMS is at 300 HP which is 130 more than the other 2 runs with the switch activated."

    "In conclusion, I am baffled as to how this could be occurring on this car and I am tempted to make a simple throttle step down defeat on/off switch to eliminate this problem from occurring. I would like to get input from tiptronic owners as if you have experienced this scenario and have felt this same thing under this type of driving. I do not own a tip car and do not know if most people drive this way. I was informed of a potential problem and was asked to get it solved. After figuring it out, I hope this information is useful and if we can make a simple fix for it, let me know and I will get it done. Sorry for the long post, but I felt it was necessary"
    __________________
    Todd - Founder - Evolution MotorSports

    Re: Info from PCA

    Occasionally I've seen posts from TT owners to the effect that somehow the 997 TT doesn't "feel fast." (In fact as a prospective owner, much more often than I would like to see.) Could it be these are tiptronic cars that don't feel fast precisely because they AREN'T fast? At least in certain situations? It would be nice to have feedbacks from tiptronic TT owners on this forum.

    I hope Porsche Germany is reading some of the excellent work by US tuners/modders, such as Todd of Evo MS here. My hat is off to these guys.

    BTW, in case you don't already know, a number of these pro's post on www.6speedonline.com, making it a very interesting forum.

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Could it be related to this?
    http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75675

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    "Porsche states (per Philip Raby, article in July issue of Total 911, and confirmed directly with him) that the car accelerates from 50 mph to 75 mph in 3.5 seconds in 4th gear (without sports boost active), but after approximately 4 seconds the turbo has reached only about 57 mph. It feels like my Toyota Sequoia."


    Something sounds wrong. 4 seconds to go from 50 to 57mph?





    It must be. wow interesting stuff:


    "When comparing the 2 cars, the 6-speed car is making 15 PSI of boost about 820 RPMS sooner than the tiptronic car."

    .......
    __________________
    Todd - Founder - Evolution MotorSports


     
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