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    Re: Tesla

    Enmanuel:

    Some of the people involved in these online Tesla argument really need to calm down. Maybe pour a glass of wine and spread some cheese on a cracker. 

    Did you read the linked article?  


    Re: Tesla

    Yes. And I still think they need to calm down a little. 


    Re: Tesla

    Hmmm.  Much as expected. 
     

    Swedish Test Offers Compelling Evidence That Buttons Are Less Distracting Than Touchscreen Infotainment

    Touchscreen Distracting Buttons Topshot

    It’s often claimed that touchscreen infotainment systems are less safe than traditional buttons and knobs, and thanks to Swedish automotive outlet Vi Bilägare, we finally have some promising data. The outlet rounded up a whole host of modern vehicles including a Tesla Model 3, a Hyundai Ioniq 5, and a Subaru Outback, then put their cabin controls to a distraction test.

    As a baseline vehicle without touchscreen infotainment, Vi Bilägare gave a 2005 Volvo V70 some time off from schlepping furniture and strollers. While the V70’s center stack is essentially an anvil compared to modern cars’ touchscreens, it’s still a fairly busy traditional dashboard with plenty of buttons and knobs.

    Vi Bilgare V70 Buttons

    Photo credit: Glenn Lindberg/Vi Bilägare

    The team at Vi Bilägare chose a litany of fairly simple tests for drivers to perform. The first was an obvious winter morning routine of turning on the heated seat, bumping up HVAC temperature by two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit), and activating the rear defroster. The second was as common as can be, to power on the radio and set the channel to Sweden’s P1 talk channel. The third was to simply reset the trip computer, and the fourth was to dim the interior lights and turn the center display off. While that last test sounds a bit strange, low dashboard illumination really helps night visibility.

    To equalize the playing field a bit, Vi Bilägare says that drivers were given the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the controls in each vehicle before testing began. After all, anyone who owns a modern car has probably familiarized themselves with the controls, so it only makes sense to minimize unfamiliarity. Each car was then driven at 110 km/h (68 mph) while time required to make adjustments was measured. At 110 km/h, a car travels around 100 feet per second (30.556 meters per second), so easy-to-use controls can really be the difference between a smooth drive and having a massive crash. Anyone care to predict what the results were?

    Tesla Model 3 touchscreen

    Photo credit: Courtesy of Tesla, Inc.

    While the full list of results can be found on Vi Bilägare’s website, here are some key notes on vehicles offered in the U.S. market. In first place, it’s the Volvo V70, in which the driver required just ten seconds to complete every task. The Volvo C40 wasn’t far behind at 13.7 seconds, but testing quickly took a turn for the worse. There’s a 5.7-second delta between the Volvo C40 and the next-best Subaru Outback, which means that the tasks in the Outback took almost twice as long as in the V70. The Mercedes-Benz GLB was hot on the heels of the Outback at 20.2 seconds, while the Tesla Model 3 driver required 23.5 seconds to complete the tasks.

    Completing tasks in the Volkswagen ID.3 took 25.7 seconds, and although the ID.3 isn’t sold in America, the ID.4 shares an infotainment family with the ID.3 and enjoys fair popularity in the states. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 driver needed 26.7 seconds to complete the tasks, and I can totally see why. Its touchscreen infotainment system doesn’t feature a permanent hard key for home, instead requiring owners to set a programmable button as a hard home key. Bringing up the rear for cars familiar to Americans is the BMW iX, requiring a massive 30.4 seconds of attention. While BMW’s certainly changed since the 2000s, it sounds like iDrive is as distracting as ever.

    BMW iX iDrive 8 touchscreen

    Photo credit: BMW

    In addition to the rather shocking test results, Vi Bilägare brought up several grips with infotainment systems that are all completely valid, from too much complexity to maddening cost-cutting.

    BMW iX also offers a touchscreen, but not as big as Tesla’s, and also more physical buttons. But that’s no guarantee for a system which is easy to use. The BMW’s infotainment system has lots of features, but it also has one of the most complex and complicated user interfaces ever designed.

    Another sin is committed by Volkswagen and Seat. In order to save money, the touch-sensitive climate controls below the screen in the ID.3 and Leon are not backlit which make them completely invisible at night.

    In addition, Vi Bilägare decided to conduct all tests through touchscreens and physical controls, foregoing voice controls with the following justification.

    The carmakers are keen to point out that many features now can be activated by voice. But the voice control systems are not always easy to use, they can’t control every function and they don’t always work as advertised, which is why the voice control systems were not tested in this experiment.

    While factoring out voice control systems may seem like it could tilt the tables a touch, personal experience with just about every voice control system on the market says that they’re incredibly sluggish even when they take commands perfectly, and some level of concentration is required when timing voice commands. Plus, Vi Bilägare is definitely right that voice controls can be iffy. They just don’t work when you have the windows open or have passengers on board.

    325i Interior

    Photo credit: Thomas Hundal

    While one study with one set of drivers in one set of cars likely isn’t enough data to draw absolute industry-wide conclusions from, Vi Bilägare’s testing holds some serious promise. I’m excited to see other tests of modern infotainment systems against trust buttons and knobs. In any case, it’s nice having some data to back up claims that traditional controls are less distracting than touchscreen infotainment.

    Lead photo credit: Hyundai


    Re: Tesla

    Wishing for the day governments around the world start banning touch screens in automobiles. They have no place in a moving car. Well they can exist, for the back seat passengers. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Try using a touch screen in flight in turbulent air for simple tasks like changing ATC frequencies or transponder codes! Smiley


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    If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS :)


    Re: Tesla

    Absolute human factors disaster.  I’m surprised a maker hasn’t added voice commands for some of the a/c control.  That  could prove very interesting and dangerous simultaneously.  


    Re: Tesla

    Except that all of those tasks can be performed by the Teslas steering wheel or stalk controls. The rest can all be voice controlled.  Ignorance or deliberate narrative?  You decide.  None of those tasks would take me more than a second. 
    I will now let you all return to the mental masturbation this thread has become. 


    Re: Tesla

    Pilot:

    Try using a touch screen in flight in turbulent air for simple tasks like changing ATC frequencies or transponder codes! Smiley

     

    I am waiting for the day when all flight controls are moved to a touchscreens since some think touchscreens are such a 'great idea' Smiley 

    Or, in the words of someone, voice control!!

    "Hey plane, give me 15 degrees left rudder."

    "I am sorry I don't quite understand that'

    "LEFT RUDDER 15 DEGREES"

    "Ok, emptying left fuel tank and gear down for landing"

     

     

    At least on some of the screens in a cockpit there are hard buttons surrounding those multifunction displays? Those buttons at least doesn't move around. 

    Putting touch screens in stuff that moves is like nah we don't want round wheels, we have a much better idea with triangle wheels. Smiley


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    Re: Tesla

    Concorde would of needed quite a few touch screens indecision

    af476e0e-e6be-4b24-b359-d997a45b5cbf.JPG


    Re: Tesla

    Haha,

    But everything is exactly where they are supposed to be, an experienced crew could have operated everything without even looking at the switches, just extend the hand down, and find the switch needed by feel and touch. 

     

    Imagine they put the gear shift of manual cars on a touch screen, and one needed to use a finger to follow a slot on screen to change gear...................AND put the clutch pedal also on a touch screen operated by the foot............


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    Re: Tesla

    Like I said. Mental masturbation. Do you guys even read the crap you write?  At this point it is clearly not to inform, since  it does not even make sense. It is just hate filled garbage meant to piss off friends. Weird 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Haha,

    But everything is exactly where they are supposed to be, an experienced crew could have operated everything without even looking at the switches, just extend the hand down, and find the switch needed by feel and touch. 

     

    Imagine they put the gear shift of manual cars on a touch screen, and one needed to use a finger to follow a slot on screen to change gear...................AND put the clutch pedal also on a touch screen operated by the foot............

    You guys just don't get it, there is no reason to spend money and know-how on a functional and ergonomic physical controled interior instead of just slapping a cheap square screen in the middle of the dash because cars will be full self driving soon in 2013 according to Musk... oh wait...


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Like I said. Mental masturbation. Do you guys even read the crap you write?  At this point it is clearly not to inform, since  it does not even make sense. It is just hate filled garbage meant to piss off friends. Weird 

     

    It's not even straight targeting Tesla products, other manufacturers are guilty of putting touchscreens in cars🤷🏻‍♂️ Porsches, Mercedes, BMWs, Fords, you name it all abused this 'feature'. But at least in some cases they put in either hard buttons or multi-function buttons outside of the screen for ease of access. 

    You are welcome to state counter points on why touchscreen isn't a safety hazard. 

    Carlos already stated why Tesla put them in, Elon had envisioned his cars will all be driving themselves so the drivers can be distracted by operating the screen. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:
    Whoopsy:

    Haha,

    But everything is exactly where they are supposed to be, an experienced crew could have operated everything without even looking at the switches, just extend the hand down, and find the switch needed by feel and touch. 

     

    Imagine they put the gear shift of manual cars on a touch screen, and one needed to use a finger to follow a slot on screen to change gear...................AND put the clutch pedal also on a touch screen operated by the foot............

    You guys just don't get it, there is no reason to spend money and know-how on a functional and ergonomic physical controled interior instead of just slapping a cheap square screen in the middle of the dash because cars will be full self driving soon in 2013 according to Musk... oh wait...

    I recall reading when Musk stated he was taking a FSD Model S cross country with his family during the Christmas holiday break.  That was 9 girlfriends, 4 children, and one sex change away from today.  


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Like I said. Mental masturbation. Do you guys even read the crap you write?  At this point it is clearly not to inform, since  it does not even make sense. It is just hate filled garbage meant to piss off friends. Weird 

     

    It's not even straight targeting Tesla products, other manufacturers are guilty of putting touchscreens in cars🤷🏻‍♂️ Porsches, Mercedes, BMWs, Fords, you name it all abused this 'feature'. But at least in some cases they put in either hard buttons or multi-function buttons outside of the screen for ease of access. 

    You are welcome to state counter points on why touchscreen isn't a safety hazard. 

    Carlos already stated why Tesla put them in, Elon had envisioned his cars will all be driving themselves so the drivers can be distracted by operating the screen. 

     

    All you have to do with a Tesla is twiddle a couple of small balls.  It was posted above. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    ... That was 9 girlfriends, 4 children, and one sex change away from today.  

    That sounds like an intense roadtrip crew Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Like I said. Mental masturbation. Do you guys even read the crap you write?  At this point it is clearly not to inform, since  it does not even make sense. It is just hate filled garbage meant to piss off friends. Weird 

     

    It's not even straight targeting Tesla products, other manufacturers are guilty of putting touchscreens in cars🤷🏻‍♂️ Porsches, Mercedes, BMWs, Fords, you name it all abused this 'feature'. But at least in some cases they put in either hard buttons or multi-function buttons outside of the screen for ease of access. 

    You are welcome to state counter points on why touchscreen isn't a safety hazard. 

    Carlos already stated why Tesla put them in, Elon had envisioned his cars will all be driving themselves so the drivers can be distracted by operating the screen. 

     

    What I did was point out that you don’t need to use the touch screen at all. Conventional buttons, stalks and pedals along with a wheel are all there for anyone who wants to use them.  For the other 100 plus things the car can do something is needed to control those features else the car would look like that 747 or worse.  To just ignore the fact that the screen does not need to be used and to rant on and on while not thinking about all the stuff the touch screen is needed for is just plain … fill in the blank.  And if you don’t like the touch screen you can use voice control which is amazing. I can say defrost the car and I don’t hit the rear window defrost button by mistake. In fact I can have all frost cleared using my phone long before I get to the car. I can tell it to have it cleared at 7 pm so I don’t forget.  
    If I am being really daring and use the touch screen I have autopilot to watch out while I peek at the screen. 
    Imagine what use your phone would be if you only had buttons and no touch screen.  What is the harm in a touch screen if every function you need while driving has a conventional control?  Do you guys just like to hear grand ma complain she does not understand a guid menu system or are you that grandma?   It is like you are complaining about closed doors without realizing there is a door handle practically in your hand. 
    Does the fact that all the conventional controls are available in my Model3 impact your argument at all?  I bet all those other cars also have the controls you need right at hand.  If not then I would of course agree. 


    Re: Tesla

    You must have not used a Blackberry before.

    That little thing has the best keyboard bar none. Physical keys for all the alphabets, no mistyping on screen smiley

    What conventional control in the Model 3? Separate volume knob? Separate temperature control buttons? Wiper stalk? Media short cut buttons, hard buttons? 

    I don't mind multifunction displays, but surround them with context sensitive hard physical buttons, something one can feel and use, and not needed the eye to look? Don't matter if a car has advance cruise control or not, if a button needed eye tracking in order to use, that means taking eyes off the road ahead, that's dangerous. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    And if you really think touchscreen is that great, why aren't you wishing for putting steering, gas pedal and brake pedal on the touch screen also? Window switches and turn signals even. 

    it's simply a cost cutting measure to put everything on a touch screen, all those switches cost money.

    Before the current crop of cars, all cars have full buttons inside, they aren't looking like a 747 cockpit at all. And for those with multifunction displays, there is a iDrive or equivalent controller near the hand for navigation. The BMW first gen iDrive is especially useful, one knob has 11 functions, it can be used without looking at the screen. Much safer than touch screens. 

    Do you also know quite a few car makers locked out their touchscreens while the car is moving? That tells you have dangerous a touchscreen is inside a moving car. Lexus, Honda comes to mind, even Porsche locks out the touchscreen keyboard if the car is moving. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

     You are arguing a point all on your own.   Hence my many references to mental masturbation. I am not defending touch screen for ordinary driving functions. I am pointing out that you still don’t get that that all conventional controls are there if you care to learn that they are there. The touch screen is there for everything else which you would never be able to use without it. Stop being obtuse.  Is it really that hard to understand?  Really??????  At some point I must assume you simply can not read.  No excited about your next non sense reply describing how you can’t operate a car due to the touch screen. What a load of crap. Arguing for the sake of arguing just to piss off friends.  I will never understand the need to do that.  
     


    Re: Tesla

    And you are missing the point. I already stated that I am not targeting Tesla, it's everyone doing it too, putting dangerous. touch screen in cars. But oh no, you wanted to make it personal and only about Tesla.

    There is simply no good reason to put a touchscreen inside a moving car to start off with, other than 'looks good'. All the stuff that a touchscreen is used for can be replaced with a multifunction display with a controller somewhere near where the right hand naturally falls to. Ergonomics. No need to reach up and out to touch a screen.

    What is it that a touchscreen can do that no other method cannot achieve? Nothing. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Wow. I’m done here. 
    You are welcome to your point of view. There is not enough time to go back and forth and explain anything to you. You are just fine the way you are. Don’t change a thing. 


    Re: Tesla

    As usual, you Tesla way or the highway. Nothing new here.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    It really is a sickness with some of them.  YouTube pulls video of Tesla drivers using children to demonstrate FSD.  https://insideevs.com/news/605951/tesla-fsd-children-videos-youtube-removed/


    Re: Tesla

    Mercedes-Benz level 3 nearly autonomous driving system: https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/mercedes-level-3-autonomous-l3-adas-drive-pilot-review-driving-autopilot. No one is rushing out to place children in front of their cars with this system. 


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    As usual, you Tesla way or the highway. Nothing new here.

     

    You are the one making it about Tesla. I am pointing out you could not use things like your smart phone without a touch screen. You also refuse to understand or comprehend that the touch screen in any of these cars is not vital while driving.      Perhaps reading comprehension is an issue?


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    It really is a sickness with some of them.  YouTube pulls video of Tesla drivers using children to demonstrate FSD.  https://insideevs.com/news/605951/tesla-fsd-children-videos-youtube-removed/

    so someone posts a video which debunks Tesla FUD totally and it is banned. What does that tell you in light of 1000s of kids on YouTube constantly doing far more dangerous things to make money.   The real story is censored information which does not fit the narrative that Tesla is evil and dangerous.  It is not amazing that you are so deep into the bullshit that you actually post a Mercedes’ level 3 story immediately after.  How funny. Look into the mirror and try not to laugh out loud.  The people who believe the stuff deserve to drive every other EV out there.  
    Meanwhile the owners are the most happy and satisfied bunch of car owners ever. The only people I have ever met who don’t like or understand Tesla are those who do not own one. Period.  Do you guys ever listen to the owners or just the sour competition with nothing to compete with ?  Hmmmm.  I know I usually read reviews from people who use and try the product not from those who have no clue.  
    For what it is worth I can assure you it is far better than anyone here imagines.  But by all means, listen to your ‘friends’ steering you the other directions.  


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    It really is a sickness with some of them.  YouTube pulls video of Tesla drivers using children to demonstrate FSD.  https://insideevs.com/news/605951/tesla-fsd-children-videos-youtube-removed/

    so someone posts a video which debunks Tesla FUD totally and it is banned. What does that tell you in light of 1000s of kids on YouTube constantly doing far more dangerous things to make money.   The real story is censored information which does not fit the narrative that Tesla is evil and dangerous.  It is not amazing that you are so deep into the bullshit that you actually post a Mercedes’ level 3 story immediately after.  How funny. Look into the mirror and try not to laugh out loud.  The people who believe the stuff deserve to drive every other EV out there.  
    Meanwhile the owners are the most happy and satisfied bunch of car owners ever. The only people I have ever met who don’t like or understand Tesla are those who do not own one. Period.  Do you guys ever listen to the owners or just the sour competition with nothing to compete with ?  Hmmmm.  I know I usually read reviews from people who use and try the product not from those who have no clue.  
    For what it is worth I can assure you it is far better than anyone here imagines.  But by all means, listen to your ‘friends’ steering you the other directions.  

    Leawood, with all due respect, if only you re-read what you just wrote from an objective perspective....

    they removed the videos because it's grown-ups putting minors at risk, not minors doing stupid stuff, but all you see is an anti-tesla censorship crusade... that's your rationalization, really?

    you say that those who don't like Tesla are those that don't own one, because in your mind your rationalize that the only reason to explain someone not liking a Tesla, not having a clue, when in fact it's the other way around, the reason they don't own a Tesla because they don't like them, that's how it usually work in real life.

    Nick is one of the members here with more first hand knowledge and experience with EVs in the forum, and certainly much more than you and I, so he doesn't own one because he has no clue, on the contrary and he doesn't like them, but this is something you can't get your head around for some reason.

    As to Tesla owners being the happiest bunch, cult members will say the same thing about their religion so that doesn't say much smiley cool


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    As usual, you Tesla way or the highway. Nothing new here.

     

    You are the one making it about Tesla. I am pointing out you could not use things like your smart phone without a touch screen. You also refuse to understand or comprehend that the touch screen in any of these cars is not vital while driving.      Perhaps reading comprehension is an issue?

    Hence why it's so dangerous to use a smartphone while drive, because it uses a touch screen. And while some of the functions are also accessed via buttons and stalks, the fact is people will use the touch screen while driving, specially if the one thing in the dash is a big touch screen, and that is a distraction which can lead to unnecessary accidents.

    Imagine if Tesla sent out a software OTA that caused the touchscreen to lock when the car was moving and see what happens with the owners... I bet they won't be saying "no big deal, I have everything I need to drive in the buttons and stalks on the wheels, never used the touchscreen while driving anyway"... 

    See the point, and it's not just Tesla, other manufacturers are at fault as well, is just that Tesla is the biggest offender inn this respect, just like allowing drivers to not having to pay attention to the controls while using autopilot but not implementing hard to bypass measures that force the driver to pay attention, like other manufacturers do, same thing.


    Re: Tesla

    There's a general tendency for Tesla owners to believe that the other automakers are significantly behind in the rush to automate driving.  The following link is from Porsche Engineering where Issue 01/2022 illuminates Porsche's work in vehicle driving automation systems and the issues facing development.  https://www.porscheengineering.com/peg/en/about/magazine/ 


     
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