Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Waxing on waxing - Page1

Aug 11, 2007 1:27:49 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004

Waxing on waxing

Waxed car with liquified Carnauba (Griot's Garage stuff). It occurred to me that "slathering" the wax on is probably better than letting it get drier and rubbing it in anyway.

IOW, it _seems_ better to let the solvents in the wax remain plentiful while waxing rather than "stretching" the wax and letting it get drier in order to cover a larger area.

I also have P21S but it was going on so dry that I imagined (incorrectly?) that it wasn't "soaking" into the paint.

I betcha "slathering" it on is especially important with polymer "waxes;"i.e. the one's that bond to the paint.

FWIW

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Aug 14, 2007 1:02:17 PM

Jim48: Senior; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 639, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Waxing on waxing

Quote:
MMD said:
Waxed car with liquified Carnauba (Griot's Garage stuff). It occurred to me that "slathering" the wax on is probably better than letting it get drier and rubbing it in anyway.

IOW, it _seems_ better to let the solvents in the wax remain plentiful while waxing rather than "stretching" the wax and letting it get drier in order to cover a larger area.

I also have P21S but it was going on so dry that I imagined (incorrectly?) that it wasn't "soaking" into the paint.

I betcha "slathering" it on is especially important with polymer "waxes;"i.e. the one's that bond to the paint.

FWIW

I guess I must be lazy, but I use Rejex. It's easier to apply and buff, and it's great in that "bug juice" is easier to remove. The downside is that; 1) I don't get as good a shine as you probably do; 2) I can't apply it in direct sunlight or when the temperature is above 85 degrees Fahrenheit,; and 3) it takes 12-24 hours to "cure."

Jim

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Aug 14, 2007 1:31:22 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Jim48

Re: Waxing on waxing

RejeX is great. I use it on front and back bumpers.

Though it's probably not advised by detailing extremists (God bless them), liquid carnauba (like Griot's) works for me.

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Aug 14, 2007 2:27:24 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Waxing on waxing

I think you're just wasting wax, because no matter how you apply it, the layer of wax left behind is basically the same. The only way to increase the thickness of your wax layer would be multiple applications, and quite honestly, that may have a serious factor of diminishing returns, because in the act of doing another coat, you're removing some of the coat that came before it.....

Whether slather it on, or stretch it thin, the lion's share is coming back off in your rag.... The act of waxing, as I understand it, is applying a microscopically-thin coating to your paint. In other words, even when you're stretching the application extremely THIN, you still wind up removing 90% of what you're applying... The measure of how much wax is the right amount for applying, is more a measure of maintaining an emollient and smooth vessel (pad) for spreading the product, than it is worrying about how much product gets left on the surface, as that's more of a constant than you'd imagine.

But that's just my "understanding" with zero references, just absorbed information from the past.

Seems to me that Griot's would be able to provide more info, BUT.... ALWAYS BE SLIGHTLY LEARY AND CYNICAL when a wax seller/manufacturer gives you advice on how much wax/poly to apply, and how many coats to apply, and how frequently to apply, and how many different steps and products to utilize each time you touch the car. THEY ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING AS MUCH SCHMUTZ AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE... Their advice will always tend toward major over-kill, major waste, and involve preps and steps and "special applicators" that are somehow different than the applicators you already have..

And the more hours and sweat you spend doing all these myriad of steps, and the more beer you drink in the process, the more you're deluded into thinking you got some special result for your efforts.

Me?? When I'm faced with the process of doing a multi-step system, or using a new product, I go straight to the middle of my hood, and do a couple test circles, roughly 10-12 inches in diameter, right next to each other. In one circle, I apply the new product and/or products (replicating all the steps if it's a system) of the new schmutz I'm trying. In the other circle, I lay down a quick application of my favorite combo-cleaner-wax. If I can see a noticeable difference, applying different lights, at different angles, if I can detect a tangible improvement of depth or clarity or haze/scratch removal, I'll go with the new stuff on the whole car... Often times it's a "push", but the application/removal of the new stuff is alot easier, so I'll give it a try. Then you go on to see how it lasts, and how it works day-to-day... After a month or two, you've decided if you've got a "keeper", or another bottle of schmutz to add to the wax grave-yard in your garage...

It usually comes down to what the condition of your paint is when you begin. The worse it is, the more steps and products it will take to restore it...

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Aug 14, 2007 2:47:24 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Yeah, I agree with your reasoning; it seems natural enough.

Then I start thinking that slathering it on results in "waste" but maybe the abundance of solvents in the slather helps the small amount of wax that doesn't get wasted adhere better?

Makes even more sense with polymer "waxes."

BTW, I do the testing like you describe by forming a line of blue or green 3M masking tape. Then I have a definite comparison area. Never had a problem with that line coming back later to haunt me.

"Wax grave-yard," LOL. One of many such "grave-yards" if your garage is like mine.

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Aug 14, 2007 5:00:16 PM

Puffy911: Pilot; Loc: Denver, Colorado, USA; Posts: 474, Gallery; Registered on: May 29, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Me?? When I'm faced with the process of doing a multi-step system, or using a new product, I go straight to the middle of my hood, and do a couple test circles, roughly 10-12 inches in diameter, right next to each other. In one circle, I apply the new product and/or products (replicating all the steps if it's a system) of the new schmutz I'm trying. In the other circle, I lay down a quick application of my favorite combo-cleaner-wax. If I can see a noticeable difference, applying different lights, at different angles, if I can detect a tangible improvement of depth or clarity or haze/scratch removal, I'll go with the new stuff on the whole car... Often times it's a "push", but the application/removal of the new stuff is alot easier, so I'll give it a try. Then you go on to see how it lasts, and how it works day-to-day... After a month or two, you've decided if you've got a "keeper", or another bottle of schmutz to add to the wax grave-yard in your garage...

Boss: If you were going to make a recommendation of a product or system to use on our P-cars what would it be? I've read your posts over the last year or so and I think you've won concours awards and what not. I am not asking for a concourse winning system, just a nice system to use on my 1 year old, never been waxed, 997 (w/ ~4000 miles).

Thanks!

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Aug 14, 2007 6:35:16 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Puffy911

Re: Waxing on waxing

If you're just looking for basic, accessible, reasonably priced products:

- For general periodic wax upkeep, I keep coming back to off-the-shelf Meguiar's Gold Class wax/polish, as it is so easy to use, and is not prone to chalkiness or white residue.. It makes life real easy, and I've never been able to detect more gloss or shine from anything else, side-by-side.

2. For the occassional machine-polish, to really get back to virgin pure paint, I recently picked up the Griot's adjustable-speed random oribital, with their set of 4 machine polishes, and love it... Very easy and effective. Prior to that, I was old-schooling it with Meguiar's and 3M commercial glazes and polishes. All fantastic products, but less straight-forward for using in concert with each other. The Griot's polishes work nicely, and come all bundled up and tied with a bow, so to speak.. It's all you really need...

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Aug 14, 2007 8:02:36 PM

KiwiCanuck: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 210, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Hello 69bossnine,

Related topic---have you 90deg-rotated the bushings on your rear wishbones yet, to remove the 'lurch'?

If anyone does not know about that on the 2005 997, then you are driving it too slowly in corners!

Cheers

KiwiCanuck

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Aug 14, 2007 8:50:37 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: KiwiCanuck

Re: Waxing on waxing

Ya know, I have been experiencing the "lurch", but I've yet to get around to fixing the damn thing... My car hasn't gotten alot of use this year I'm afraid, alot of sitting and looking pretty while other stuff is exercised..

I'll get it done

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Aug 14, 2007 9:48:34 PM

SimonWall: Junior; Loc: UK; Posts: 84, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 2, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Quote:
69bossnine said:
If you're just looking for basic, accessible, reasonably priced products:

- For general periodic wax upkeep, I keep coming back to off-the-shelf Meguiar's Gold Class wax/polish, as it is so easy to use, and is not prone to chalkiness or white residue.. It makes life real easy, and I've never been able to detect more gloss or shine from anything else, side-by-side.

2. For the occassional machine-polish, to really get back to virgin pure paint, I recently picked up the Griot's adjustable-speed random oribital, with their set of 4 machine polishes, and love it... Very easy and effective. Prior to that, I was old-schooling it with Meguiar's and 3M commercial glazes and polishes. All fantastic products, but less straight-forward for using in concert with each other. The Griot's polishes work nicely, and come all bundled up and tied with a bow, so to speak.. It's all you really need...

I am using Meguiars Gold Class on my Meteor Grey 997 and have had good results. Recommended.

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Aug 15, 2007 3:37:21 AM

Puffy911: Pilot; Loc: Denver, Colorado, USA; Posts: 474, Gallery; Registered on: May 29, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Boss: Is it safe to apply Meguiars gold class car/wax on the "clear bra" or should I be sure to avoid doing so and be extra careful along the edge where the plastic begins/ends?

One more thing, I just looked at their web site. They list a liquid and a paste. Which seems to give better results?

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Aug 15, 2007 1:20:56 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Puffy911

Re: Waxing on waxing

I've only used the liquid, not the paste... You can put it on the clearbra, you can power it into the side window trim to keep it from "cooking" dry... It won't turn things chalky..

Also, on your clearbra and flare guards always run your wax pad moving away from the film, OVER the edges, to the paint. Never run the pad moving from the paint INTO the edges and onto the film, if you get what I mean.

In the first scenario, the pad steps down from the film to the paint, with no wax cramming into the crevice of the edge.. In the latter scenario, wax just pounds into the edge seam, and you've got to run your towel down the seam to get it all out... Doing this repeatedly will compromise and domino-effect the edge over time.

In the event that you accidently do get a bunch of wax into the edges, I believe that gently running your fingernail along the edge, and then gently towel buffing, is the best way. When you go in there aggressively with the towel, the fibers will get stuck under the edge, and again, you've got a compromise that'll domino with time...

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Aug 15, 2007 1:58:40 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

I use a _soft_ toothbrush to get the gunk outta the raised edges of clear bra or rubber gasketing/weather strip on roof or around windows.

I never noticed any scratches. I guess that's because I do it very lightly and presumably use the accumulated extracted wax as a scratch-preventer (?). IOW, don't wipe/blow off wax dust until done.

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Aug 15, 2007 4:01:19 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Waxing on waxing

On a black car any toothbrushing would leap out and slap you in the face the moment you finished an inch.... The reason you're not seeing it is the forgiveness of silver and other light colors... They hide their owner's sins well...

It's not permanent damage, it just requires a light polish to work back out...

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Aug 15, 2007 9:46:31 PM

AndyM: Senior; Loc: Durham, NH (UNH); Posts: 731, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

I've had the best results with Griots Garage Best of Show wax, yet it's hard to get the extra oily residue left over. An easier wax, yet still gives a damn good shine, would be Zymol. That's what I use most of the time.

Another way I get out the residue, is after you're finished waxing and buffing it out, wet a rag and then ring it out most of the way, so that their's stil a little water left in it. Then wipe off the whole car in sections and dry it with another dry rag right after.
Perfect shine, every time!

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Aug 16, 2007 12:27:34 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Quote:
69bossnine said:
On a black car any toothbrushing would leap out and slap you in the face the moment you finished an inch.... The reason you're not seeing it is the forgiveness of silver and other light colors... They hide their owner's sins well...

It's not permanent damage, it just requires a light polish to work back out...

Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably like a piece of virgin plexiglass with the protective wrapping removed, rub it with your finger: it's scratched.

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Aug 16, 2007 1:21:07 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: AndyM

Re: Waxing on waxing

Quote:
AndyM said:
I've had the best results with Griots Garage Best of Show wax, yet it's hard to get the extra oily residue left over. An easier wax, yet still gives a damn good shine, would be Zymol. That's what I use most of the time.

Another way I get out the residue, is after you're finished waxing and buffing it out, wet a rag and then ring it out most of the way, so that their's stil a little water left in it. Then wipe off the whole car in sections and dry it with another dry rag right after.
Perfect shine, every time!

That is a good technique. Quick-detail spray also does the trick... This example however is another reason I like the Gold Class... It simply doesn't do that, not on pure black even... It comes straight off, even and consistant, no residues or filminess that seems to chase your tail when you dry-buff.

If you think Zymol is easier, you'll think Gold Class is ridiculous...

I have Zymol Carbon in my shop fridge... I like it for no other reason than it's also non-chalky, and does well when powered into matte moldings, vinyl graphics, and semi-gloss panels or components (alot of old muscle cars have spoilers and hood treatments and graphics that you want to protect and preserve and keep looking "rich", but you've gotta be careful what product you pound into it...), and it does leave a luxurious-feeling surface to the touch... The only down-side is it's more stubborn to come off, and also can tend toward being a bit greasy coming off, depending on the temp and humidity you're working in...

I break out the Zymol when I'm feeling froggy with a special car and a 6-pack of beer... On my drivers, I keep it as easy as possible with the Meguiar's...

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Aug 16, 2007 2:21:52 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6061, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

@ 69boss ,,

What do you use on the paintwork and alloys to remove tar spots before waxing ...

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Aug 16, 2007 3:06:03 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: throt

Re: Waxing on waxing

Whatever's handy, I've got various products in my shop and at home, all that do the job... R-M Pre-Kleeno, Stoner Tarminator, Stoner Xenit (citrus), Goo Gone (citrus)... All of them are safe and effective, all of them will strip off your wax along with the tar, so you've always got to skim on a quick coat of wax after using any tar remover...

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Aug 16, 2007 6:29:03 PM

throt: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 6061, Gallery; Registered on: May 9, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Thanks for the info , boss

..

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Aug 17, 2007 4:18:10 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8213, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Waxing on waxing

Quote:
69bossnine said:
If you're just looking for basic, accessible, reasonably priced products [...]

I am looking for a product that conserves the paint for a longer duration, have used Meguiar's products (including the application pads and microfibre towels) in the past and had good experiences in terms of application and gloss. I simply don't have the urge to repeat the process every second month. Any recommendations..?

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Aug 17, 2007 5:52:04 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Waxing on waxing

Poly products typically LAST longer, but I've had bad experiences on black with poly's twice in the Florida summer sun (Zaino, a weird reaction, cooked to an opaque-milky shell, practically took a hammer and chisel to remove, and the same exact problem with another Poly I bought at Wal Mart... please don't ask me to get into it, it snowballs into an enormous discussion...)

Anyhow, since I'm not a poly guy, I wouldn't know what to recommend...

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