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    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC:
     Do potential 911 GT2 or GT2 RS buyers want a NEW mid engined Porsche instead?

    That is probably the right question. I would speculate the answer is no...

    However, same logic as with PDK and the GT3, it might make sense to lose some GT2/GT2RS customers but to get more new customers (looking for an "exotic" mid-engine car for that kind of price tag…) Smiley


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    As far as I can see any potential GT2 or GT2RS is the new GT3 turned up to 11 on steroids. So it would be a further tuned Turbo S motor in essentially a GT3. Now the GT3 is already heavier than its predecessor so a  new GT2 with PDK, 4 wheel steering but minus 4WD is going to be not awfully far off a turbo in weight isn't it? Unless they replace   lots and lots of parts with even lighter versions-the scope of weight savings for which is limited by an already lighter 991 shell. So much as I love the idea of a GT2 /GT2RS it seems to be a major technical challenge to actually get it to be the fastest 911 in the real world and on the NBR. That's apart from the safety concerns of having huge turbo power going through 2 back tyres. Having said all that I'd love to see a GT2RS with Carbon replacing all the aluminium body parts and roof, magnesium replacing lots of aluminium, plastic windows, ridiculously tuned stupidly powerful Metzger engine, uncompromised chassis and the mother of all wings on the back. And a major health warning for reputation. The baddest with a worse attitude. Build 500 and I bet everyone would sell directly if it's special enough. Price probably wouldn't matter so much I guess :)


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC:
    noone1:

    Just stick another CGT V10 in there and give me a modern interior at $250K. I'm sold.

    This would be 350k, not 250k. Still in? Smiley

    Ok, chop off 2 cylinders then.

     


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    john999s:

    As far as I can see any potential GT2 or GT2RS is the new GT3 turned up to 11 on steroids. So it would be a further tuned Turbo S motor in essentially a GT3. Now the GT3 is already heavier than its predecessor so a  new GT2 with PDK, 4 wheel steering but minus 4WD is going to be not awfully far off a turbo in weight isn't it? Unless they replace   lots and lots of parts with even lighter versions-the scope of weight savings for which is limited by an already lighter 991 shell. So much as I love the idea of a GT2 /GT2RS it seems to be a major technical challenge to actually get it to be the fastest 911 in the real world and on the NBR. That's apart from the safety concerns of having huge turbo power going through 2 back tyres. Having said all that I'd love to see a GT2RS with Carbon replacing all the aluminium body parts and roof, magnesium replacing lots of aluminium, plastic windows, ridiculously tuned stupidly powerful Metzger engine, uncompromised chassis and the mother of all wings on the back. And a major health warning for reputation. The baddest with a worse attitude. Build 500 and I bet everyone would sell directly if it's special enough. Price probably wouldn't matter so much I guess :)

    I actually see the biggest challenge in the engine, this is why I can imagine a GT2 but not a GT2 RS. What engine would Porsche use in the GT2RS? This means they would need to either turbo charge the current GT3 engine or use the current Turbo S engine at it's power peak of around 600 hp but this wouldn't leave much for a facelift (GT2RS). Not that it would really be necessary.

    So maybe a GT2 makes more sense than a GT2RS, even if I heard differently but I can imagine a GT2 with 560 hp (same as Turbo S) with RWD and 100 kg less weight but not so much a GT2RS with 600 hp and 100 kg less weight. Unless of course Porsche doesn't care about a future facelift of the GT2RS or they offer the next gen 911 Turbo engine in the GT2RS facelift already. Not easy for them. What seems to be sure: No Mezger engine in a possible 991 GT2RS.

    If I would be Porsche, I would take a different approach to this: I would offer a 991 Turbo RS instead, still with AWD but with let's say 50 kg less weight, a special race chassis based on the GT3RS one and 590 or 600 hp (they could use the roof from the GT3RS and other weight saving measures, like getting rid of the active aerodynamics and replacing it with fixed spoilers/wings). This car would appeal to a broader audience, even if Porsche may loose some former RS customers in the process. At the same time, I would introduce the "960" to satisfy those customers who don't want a 911 or who want something more exotic.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC I think your comments make a lot of sense especially as you are better informed than me :)

    But what you said prompted me to think some more. For analogue guys like me what I said about a deranged lunatic GT2 might make some sense. But that isn't Porsche is it? Or at least only when they need to sell something to go racing! No, what would make sense would be to drop some weight as described, rip out the 4wd hardware and put in an electric motor and regenerative braking together with a lithium battery in the middle. Now that's something which would leverage 918 technology, allow greater efficiency and speed and also help the green lobbyists. So still 4wd, even more balance to the weight distribution and monster turbo power at the back :) 


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    john999s:

    RC I think your comments make a lot of sense especially as you are better informed than me :)

    But what you said prompted me to think some more. For analogue guys like me what I said about a deranged lunatic GT2 might make some sense. But that isn't Porsche is it? Or at least only when they need to sell something to go racing! No, what would make sense would be to drop some weight as described, rip out the 4wd hardware and put in an electric motor and regenerative braking together with a lithium battery in the middle. Now that's something which would leverage 918 technology, allow greater efficiency and speed and also help the green lobbyists. So still 4wd, even more balance to the weight distribution and monster turbo power at the back :) 

    Yes, integrating hybrid technology makes sense but as far as I heard, this won't happen until the next Turbo generation. I may be wrong though since Porsche has already some experience with the 918 and they could probably use the experience made for the 911 too. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Grant:
    Milanno:To me, only logical reason for not building GT2 could be future Porsche 960 with turbo-charged engine & RWD. 

    Hopefully, a Flat-8 motor too (in turbo and normally aspirated versions).

    This picture makes me want one so much... Imagine all the beauty of the 918... without the added complications and weight of that electric nonesense... small capacity supercharged/turbocharged high revving v8... oh yes.. finally able to take on the 458... 

    The 991 TT has become too powerful and expensive for its own good. Leave it in n/a with a Gt3 high performance level. And introduce a proper mid-engine gorgeous looking supercar to rival the 458, Mp4s, Hurracan & co... this is a car I would definitely want. After enjoying my 991 Gt3 of course :) 


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    I am sure that Porsche have plans to enter into 458/Mp4/Hurracan territory with proper car, but question is - when? Thats why I am so interested to see is 991 GT2 going into production or not. If we dont see GT2, I am sure 960 will be released very soon! If we get GT2, I assume 960 could be released for about 5-6 years.

    RC Correct if I am wrong with timing speculation Smiley


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    While it would be wonderful to see Porsche compete in the MP4C / F458 arena with the 960, I think this is still a big risk for the company.  I wonder if in fact pAG is holding off commitment on the core tech philosophy for a 960 until they see how the 918 does.  High acceptance of the 918 could mean the 960 would echo its hybrid tech in simpler form, but if the 918 does not sell out easily, the 960 could be steered towards more conventional drivetrains.  I feel that PAG really wants the 918 hybrid tech to trickle down to something to help justify its huge cost.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Any news if a 991 gt2 is still on the table? This year is the 40th anniversary of the turbo, so maybe they're preparing something special..yes


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Even RC is silent about future GT2 smiley and that is not good sign angry


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Milanno:

    Even RC is silent about future GT2 smiley and that is not good sign angry

    ...or it actually is Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Well maybe we'll hear more as recently as the gt3 RS is on the market... angry


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Let Porsche surprise you guys. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC:

    Let Porsche surprise you guys. 

     

    You mean there will be a GT9? Smiley


    --

     


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC:

    Let Porsche surprise you guys. 

    Wow, that's exciting news Christian! Smiley


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Sounds at least promising indecision


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC:

    Let Porsche surprise you guys. 

    You promised to be silent! Smiley

    See what you started now... Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC:

    Let Porsche surprise you guys. 

    Now this is what I count as reliable tip Smiley


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    I heard over and over that it will not come... with Porsche having claimed that the Turbo S is too fast... 

    Well that's not a reason to bring a super GT3 out with RWD and Turbo... So I've always thought it is coming at the end of the 991.1 series.. The last GT2 RS from 2010 had 620HP so this can easily be achieved now again leaving space to the Turbo S below it. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    I would be shocked if there wasn't a GT2 or GT2RS soon. Many videos have shown the TTS is fast but far from being too fast versus MP12 etc 


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    991 TTS is incredibly fast, but it is also heavy. I am not sure that Porsche wants to be seen through 991 TTS as their peak of 991 engineering. Only logical reason for banning GT2 from production would be Porsche 960  wink


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    bluelines:
    RC:

    Let Porsche surprise you guys. 

    You promised to be silent! Smiley

    See what you started now... Smiley

    I love to tease you guys...kind of my paybackSmiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Milanno:

    991 TTS is incredibly fast, but it is also heavy. I am not sure that Porsche wants to be seen through 991 TTS as their peak of 991 engineering. Only logical reason for banning GT2 from production would be Porsche 960  wink

    There is no real problem with the 991 Turbo S weight. Have you seen the Hockenheim Kleiner Ring time for the 991 TTS and the GT3?!

    The Turbo S has, in my opinion, one single issue: The engine is at it's power peak (almost) and the exhaust sound is loud, incl. that amazing "whoosh" sound but it isn't as emotional as a Ferrari or Lamborghini for example. Porsche still needs to learn a lesson or two about emotions.

    With the proper engine and power (around 600-620 hp at max), the Turbo S would be unstoppable. 

    Porsche could also shave off let's say 50-80 kg of weight if they use more lightweight material and structural improvements, which would add to the dynamics.

    Also, I wish Porsche would offer a different interior in the 911 top models and of course a slightly different look (headlights and backlights). Take the LED headlights for example: If you order the Carrera/S with the LED headlights, you get the same look, incl. the DRL.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC, read my previous post & than yours again smiley I pointed that TTS is fast, but Porsche needs lighter car as flagship. Than you are stating that TTS is fast blush After that you are talking about more power & less weight on TTS. Well, that was my point - more power & less weight is reserved for GT2, not luxury oriented TTS no


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Less weight shouldn't be a problem if we consider that Porsche did not used much carbon fiber on the 991 yet. 


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Milanno:

    RC, read my previous post & than yours again smiley I pointed that TTS is fast, but Porsche needs lighter car as flagship. Than you are stating that TTS is fast blush After that you are talking about more power & less weight on TTS. Well, that was my point - more power & less weight is reserved for GT2, not luxury oriented TTS no

    Maybe we misunderstood each other. The weight of the 991 Turbo S is not an issue, at all. Yes, they could, they should, they may, they might and so on but the weight is currently no issue at all. The only issue (for me) is the engine. The car drivers and feels as if it could easily take 50 horses more.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC, I agree - the TTS is so well engineered it could easily handle much more power. To the point it feels like Porsche held it back more than they should.


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    Either for a GT2 or for a much more powerful facelift model. 

     


    Re: Porsche 911 boss downplays the possibility of a new 911 GT2

    RC:
    Milanno:

    RC, read my previous post & than yours again smiley I pointed that TTS is fast, but Porsche needs lighter car as flagship. Than you are stating that TTS is fast blush After that you are talking about more power & less weight on TTS. Well, that was my point - more power & less weight is reserved for GT2, not luxury oriented TTS no

    Maybe we misunderstood each other. The weight of the 991 Turbo S is not an issue, at all. Yes, they could, they should, they may, they might and so on but the weight is currently no issue at all. The only issue (for me) is the engine. The car drivers and feels as if it could easily take 50 horses more.

    Taking 288lbs out of the car (to 3250lbs from 3538lbs and 560PS) is the equivalent of 50PS. I would rather they do that. It would be faster everywhere for it.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


     
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