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    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    SuzyF:
     

    That's a lie!! Then why do some paints not make it through the feasibility check!? Smiley They have a hyper modern paintfactory, worth half a billion and they are as flexible as concrete when it comes to colors! If someone wants a real paint-to-sample color on his or her car, the car has become an oldtimer,  the moment Porsche has approved the color!

    Very true Smiley It is even more ridiculous than that though. The factory apparently were pushing for more orders for Porsche Exclusive and requested that some importers insist that dealers start ordering showroom cars with a lot of PE options to show what the factory can do. I was at my dealer the day they ordered a couple of showroom display cars in PTS and I helped out spec'ing two of them. PTS on a Panamera is ridiculously expensive compared to the average sales price of a diesel model car here so was a non starter as a customer just will not pay an extra £5k for a different shade of metallic black etc. They did order a Cayman in PTS though which would have looked great. They then found out almost by accident last week that the factory has a huge backlog on PTS and that all cars ordered for dealer display models will now need to be reconfigured in a standard range colour as the factory catches up with customer ordered cars. What a complete fiasco Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    ISUK:
    SuzyF:
     

    That's a lie!! Then why do some paints not make it through the feasibility check!? Smiley They have a hyper modern paintfactory, worth half a billion and they are as flexible as concrete when it comes to colors! If someone wants a real paint-to-sample color on his or her car, the car has become an oldtimer,  the moment Porsche has approved the color!

    Very true Smiley It is even more ridiculous than that though. The factory apparently were pushing for more orders for Porsche Exclusive and requested that some importers insist that dealers start ordering showroom cars with a lot of PE options to show what the factory can do. I was at my dealer the day they ordered a couple of showroom display cars in PTS and I helped out spec'ing two of them. PTS on a Panamera is ridiculously expensive compared to the average sales price of a diesel model car here so was a non starter as a customer just will not pay an extra £5k for a different shade of metallic black etc. They did order a Cayman in PTS though which would have looked great. They then found out almost by accident last week that the factory has a huge backlog on PTS and that all cars ordered for dealer display models will now need to be reconfigured in a standard range colour as the factory catches up with customer ordered cars. What a complete fiasco Smiley

    That is very interesting Iain; many on RT have commented on the rapidly diminishing sense of "exclusivity" in owing a Porsche (of any model) due to the huge increase in overall volumes.   It sort of makes sense that the Exclusive or PTS options allow an owner, at a cost, to regain at least a bit of the exclusivity - but if so then Porsche needs to build the capacity to make this happen.  Because if these customers who would pay for the more exclusive options can't get them... many will jump to a manufacturer where they can get what they want more easily, eg. Ferrari which seems to be gradually easier for new owners to get into. 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    IMO there is nothing exclusive in owning any car nowadays. Maybe that was a characteristic of a buygone era which ended in the 80s. When at University in the UK, I  could even pull girlfriends just because I owned a car indecision

    Even in my country which obviously is not full of supercars,  a Ferrari or a Bentley or even a Lamborghini might be appreciated by those who know, but nothing beyond that. No one gives much credit to "exclusivity" or rarity. It is just a car. People are blase towards cars.

    Conclusion: buy just for yourself whatever pleases you for whatever reason, because in the society no one admires cars anymore. There are yachts, planes helicopters now if you want to be exclusive.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    This video shows the pontential Cayenne GTS Mk.2 with a quite decent sound and probably PDK gearbox.

    http://youtu.be/_7Ib2nAw8RI

    cheers


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Sounds a Triptonic to me...


    --

    1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S - 1995 BMW318ti


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Even more important: sounds like a V8.


    --

    911 S Cabrio (2013), Panamera GTS (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    RS 991:

    This video shows the pontential Cayenne GTS Mk.2 with a quite decent sound and probably PDK gearbox.

    http://youtu.be/_7Ib2nAw8RI

    cheers

    Why would there be PDK on the Cayenne facelift? Porsche just presented the Tiptronic version and I doubt there will be Tiptroninc and PDK, it doesn't make any sense.

    Also, the video clearly states Turbo S testing (which may not be accurate though), so how the heck have you concluded that this is the facelifted GTS? Smiley

    PDK for the Cayenne GTS only? You don't seem to know Porsche well. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Well, you're right RC. I wrote down what the Youtuber suspected at the beginning, later on he changed his observations.... Of course it doesn't make sense to adapt the PDK only to the Cayenne GTS. It would be a lot of specific testing just for one model.  So IMO it's a Turbo S.
     

    however it would be something special to differentiate the Cayenne GTS from the Cayenne S, but I guess it would be enough differentiation in the current line-up if they just keep the NA V8. Porsche never seemed to make a big step to the GTS version, so we should not expect to much. From a marketing point of view it's a win for Porsche. We as Porsche enthusiasts want to see more, of course, but customers do like the "improved package" as it is. Oh and I know Porsche quite well. broken heart


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Of course we want to see more from Porsche, this is why I'm actually disappointed with the products (so far) lately.

    There will be improvements with the 991 facelift and some new products in the pipeline along the way but for me, this is way too slow to outrun the competition or even annihilate it (something I always expected from Porsche but kind of gave up on angry). Maybe if Porsche would cut down a little bit on their margins, let's say by 5%, their products would be much better than the competition's. Oh well...shareholders and Piech expect more, not less.  Customers don't seem that important anymore. Luckily, alternatives are growing on almost every tree now and sooner or later, Porsche will regret not taking care of the competition in time. It just needs a "stupid momentum" in customer boredom and dissatisfaction and the 911 could experience the same fate it almost experienced back in the days of the 964/993. Yes, Porsche could live from the Cayenne/Panamera sales only but without the "legend" 911, their shiny star would sink pretty fast at some point.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    I know what you mean, well any new product from Porsche in the last years was more or less how we expected it to be and so nothing that we could argue about for weeks and months. The excitment got lost in some way.

    of course every product has become way better in its purpose. The 911 is bigger and more comfortable and we're still waiting for more hardcore 911, the enthusiasts at least. The last time I was really excited was when the 991 GT3 came out, because it has just become so much more modern technology. Don't get me wrong, Porsche produces great cars, IMO the perfection gets always better, but they miss a bit the excitment or a big step maybe because it's a steady evolution and we expect a revolution.  And Porsche should care more about the competition to keep up not only with its own marketing but to become benchmark in a visible way.

    porsche could also provide more informations about their technology, because on the paper the 991 turbo seems to not differentiate much from its predecessor but how RC posted once a nice comparison between these two cars the improvements are small but shiny details which are very interesting to know.

    However a 960 would be a great step forward to keep up with the mid-engine competiton.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    IMO and in the opinion of many others, Porsche make the best products model by model compared to the competition, in terms of driving pleasure and practicality at prices that are not exorbitant and with maintenance costs comparable to the premium rather than the exotic sector.

    I get the impression that some people want a Porsche performing like a McLaren but at BMW prices.

    The best test ground is the marketplace and fact is that Porsche products consistently sell well. Not only the SUVs that someone could argue that they sell mostly in the emerging markets (where people might not be demanding enough because they didn't know what a car was 25 years ago) but also the sportscars that sell predominantly in mature markets.

    The 911 since the 996, has been selling in numbers that manufacturers with roughly comparable models like Jaguar, BMW, Audi and Mercedes wouldn't even dream of registering at the Porsche asking prices. People who choose with their own money are not so stupid as to be taken for a ride by Porsche, as some critics like to say. The buyers just like and appreciate what is being offered to them and are willing to pay for it.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    I'm still not convinced the 991 is selling very well in the UK. On a 6 hour road-trip yesterday from Cornwall in the southwest UK to just north of London I saw just one. It's still a very rare sight. By contrast, three Macans, numerous Cayennes and a few Boxsters. I saw more 944s than I did 991.


    --

    991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Worldwide,  911 sales are steady, more or less.

    Amazing how many 944s and 928s have survived the UK weather and are still in service. Proof of quality!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    RS 991:
    Well, you're right RC. I wrote down what the Youtuber suspected at the beginning, later on he changed his observations.... 

    He changed his video title after my comment about its not the GTS. Smiley

    Btw Im new to this forum, but driving "heavy" Porsches from 2010. Smiley


    --

    '10 958 Turbo

    '14 Macan Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Agree with Reginos on Porsche consistently producing, and selling, products superior to competition...


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Welcome to RTSmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Porsche makes the best cars in its class as well IMO. It was about the internal development. Porsche has to raise their anual productivity each year by six percent.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Any idea when we might see a  facelifted Cayenne GTS?


    --

    2014 Porsche 991 C4S Black with Sports Design Package,  2013 Porsche Cayenne Dark Blue Metallic, 2015 Porsche MACAN S (May 2014 Delivery) New York


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    GrandTourer:
    RS 991:
    Well, you're right RC. I wrote down what the Youtuber suspected at the beginning, later on he changed his observations.... 

    He changed his video title after my comment about its not the GTS. Smiley

    Btw Im new to this forum, but driving "heavy" Porsches from 2010. Smiley

    Welcome to Rennteam mate! 


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    bobr:

    Any idea when we might see a  facelifted Cayenne GTS?

    When I placed the order for my 2015 Turbo, my dealer told me that the facelifted  GTS would be out in February.


    --

    991 Carrera S Cab, Mercedes SL550, Cayenne Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Thanks. I am looking to  purchase GTS next spring.


    --

    2014 Porsche 991 C4S Black with Sports Design Package,  2013 Porsche Cayenne Dark Blue Metallic, 2015 Porsche MACAN S (May 2014 Delivery) New York


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    RS 991:

    Welcome to RTSmiley

    Joost:

    Welcome to Rennteam mate!

    Thanks!  wink

    PS CA:

    When I placed the order for my 2015 Turbo, my dealer told me that the facelifted GTS would be out in February.

    So we should expect Sport Design pack for 958 by that time.


    --

    '10 958 Turbo

    '14 Macan Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Damn, don't know which Cayenne to get:  Hybrid, S, or Diesel.

    Do we know what the fuel economy is for the Hybrid yet?


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    The hybrid is only worth it if you plan to plug it often IMHO...


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    I would get the hybrid, it gives up nothing to the S or diesel in the power department. It's basically the same drivetrain as in the Panny S hybrid which i drove last year, and that car is astonishingly quick.

    If you are always stuck in LA traffic, the gas engine may not even fire up for a long time.

     

     


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    Seems like there is little downside to the hybrid, since it's similarly priced to the twin-turbo 6 Cayenne S.

    Dumb question:

    I assume that there is an "electric-mode only" and an "electric and gas mode".

    If so, does the fuel economy go down the tubes, when you don't make sure the vehicle is charged overnight for the "electric and gas mode"?  Meaning, that I always have to plug in the vehicle at night.

    Would be great to know the difference in fuel economy between the S and the Hybrid.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    To put it simply it will be like the modes in the 918, Porsche simplified that one to put in the Panny and Cayenne. So no hot lap mode haha. 

    It will starts off in electric mode, if you foot goes down past the 1st detent, the engine kicks in. Or if the ECU thinks the battery is low, the engine will comes on to charge it. 

    If you are really concern about the gas milage, then by all means plug it in every night. But the system is pretty efficient by itself, regen braking do a lot of the recharging, it also has the now standard mode of using engine power to recharge when it's not needed to drive the wheels. 

    Even if the engine runs, it's only a 3 litre little V6, how gas hogging can it be?

    Btw, the Cayenne will have a 10.8kWh battery, about 60% larger than the 6.8kWh one in the 918. For comparison, the Panny S e-hybrid has a 9.4kWh one. Since the Cayenne S e-hybrid will weight around 10% more than the Panny , maybe take 10% off the Panny S e-hybrid's fuel economy number? 


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    The issue with the hybrid is its astonishing complexity. This is one model that will never become a classic, because it will be unrepairable over time. If you look back in time, one of the finest qualities of early 911s was its elegance of design. With a simple air-cooled engine it was the world's best performing sports car. 

    Which manufacturer possesses such attribute today? It has got to be Tesla. With the simplicity of an electric motor, the Tesla can keep up with a 911 in performance, and of course beats it by hundred mile in gas mileage. Tesla also pioneered the button-less touch screen technology while Porsche went the other way around. 

    I don't understand why Porsche continues to chase after hybrid technology instead of going full electric. Many of their sports cars seem ideally suited for the technology given their light weight. The only explanation I can think of is that they want customers to keep back to their repair shops.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    CityRacer:

    The issue with the hybrid is its astonishing complexity. This is one model that will never become a classic, because it will be unrepairable over time. If you look back in time, one of the finest qualities of early 911s was its elegance of design. With a simple air-cooled engine it was the world's best performing sports car. 

    Which manufacturer possesses such attribute today? It has got to be Tesla. With the simplicity of an electric motor, the Tesla can keep up with a 911 in performance, and of course beats it by hundred mile in gas mileage. Tesla also pioneered the button-less touch screen technology while Porsche went the other way around. 

    I don't understand why Porsche continues to chase after hybrid technology instead of going full electric. Many of their sports cars seem ideally suited for the technology given their light weight. The only explanation I can think of is that they want customers to keep back to their repair shops.

    A very simple answer to that. In Europe (and probably other parts in the world as well), we don't have the infrastructure that is needed for fully electrc cars. Maybe only in some medium to large cities. And personally I think that infrstructure will never come either, but that's a different discussion.

    if fuel economy is your main concern, get a diesel. A lot more appropriate for an SUV as well IMHO. Hybrids are still pretty thirsty in the real world, because most of these hybrids (especially cars like the Cayenne or Panamera) are not used in a way that optimzes fuel consumption. These kind of hybrids are only sold, because they are subsidized heavily in some European countries. Definitely not because they are so fuel efficient!!


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic    [SOLD]
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: Cayenne (958) Facelift 2014

    SuzyF:
     These kind of hybrids are only sold, because they are subsidized heavily in some European countries. Definitely not because they are so fuel efficient!!

    True!


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


     
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