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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    2012 Porsche 911 Carrera vs 2012 Audi R8...

    Greatness Ain't Cheap, but It's Worth It...
     
    (19 December 2011)
     
    We already knew the 2012 Audi R8 and the 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S were great cars. Everyone knows they're great. Now comes the bizarre job of determining their relative greatness. And that can't be done by pumping the performance test results into a spreadsheet, applying some spiffy algorithms to the performance test results and then dividing by the as-tested prices. The objective tests are only a start.
     
    These are the two best everyday sports cars available today. They're not fragile like a Lamborghini or overly ostentatious like a Ferrari. You can get in and out of them without a crane; they have enough storage to hold a weekend's worth of luggage; you're not going to crack a vertebrae if you hit a bump in either; they won't skitter out of control at the first hint of rain; and they'll get up a steep driveway without knocking off body parts.
     
    Taken together, these two brothers under the VW corporate patio awning are the best argument possible for hoping Germany comes out of the Euro crisis strong. These are both real cars, and at the same time, dream cars. So they need to be evaluated as both.
     
    Driving the Dream
     
    The all-wheel-drive Audi R8 enters its sixth model year for 2012, but it's still one of the most visually stunning cars on any road. It's muscular but lithe-looking, exotic without being intimidating. Showing up in an R8 is an event. When we pulled into a Starbucks in Bakersfield, California, the heads of every patron inside swiveled and craned to get a look.
     
    The rear-drive 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S doesn't share a single body panel with the 2011 edition, but Porsche's customers want the 911 to look like, well, a 911. Because of that, all the advanced steel and aluminum materials and techniques used in constructing its shell are hidden under familiar styling. At that same Starbucks, no one even noticed it.
     
    But it's not only from afar that the R8 has the 911 covered dream carwise. Stand behind the R8 and you stare down through a glass hatch at the car's luscious, mid-mounted 4.2-liter 430-horsepower V8. It's a highly styled engine bay, but what you're seeing is mostly alloy castings and genuine mechanical components. That's not a plastic cover pretending to be an intake in there; it's the real alloy deal.
     
    In contrast, the only way to see the 911's rear-mounted 3.8-liter 394-hp flat-6 is to lift the car up on a hoist, get underneath it and stare up at the oil pan.
     
    If you open up the deck lid that used to provide access to the engine in previous 911s all you see are some engine covers and fluid fill points. In this 911, the mechanical pieces are all buried. And that sucks.
     
    The R8 is the sort of car most of us grew up dreaming about — bold, beautifully shaped, explicitly mechanical, exotic and interesting in every detail. Porsche has never built the 911 to be an exotic car, and the new one, beautiful though it is, isn't one either. It's a rational car; a car that CFOs, patent attorneys and thoracic surgeons fantasize about adding to their portfolios using the spreadsheets in their heads.
     
    The World of Awesomeness
     
    Reality bites into the dream of every car on the test track. But both the 2012 Audi R8 and new 2012 Porsche 911 bite back hard.
     
    Both cars have significant rearward weight biases. The 911 puts 61.2 percent of its 3,277 pounds over the rear wheels, while 54.3 percent of the R8's 3,621 pounds are built into the hindquarters. And that pays off in both cars with driving experiences that are unlike any conventional front-engine machine. That isn't to say, however, that these two deliver the same experience.
     
    Dump the clutch in the R8 at about 5,000 rpm and the Quattro all-wheel-drive system loads the engine down momentarily. Then, like a loaded spring, the car leaps forward with all four tires grabbing the pavement. The six-speed manual transmission uses an external aluminum gate, so gearchanges come easily. With the traction control turned off, zero to 60 mph takes 4.5 seconds (4.3 seconds with 1 foot of rollout). The quarter-mile is consumed in 12.9 seconds at 109.2 mph.
     
    In contrast, the manual-transmission 911 rocks back on launch, hazes the rear tires slightly, lifts its nose and rips — the driver easily finding whichever of the seven forward gears he needs. With the traction control turned off, the trip from zero to 60 takes 4.6 seconds (4.4 seconds with a foot of rollout). The high-end respiration of the Porsche's engine shows up in the car's 12.7-second elapsed time through the quarter-mile at 113.2 mph.
     
    Both cars are slalom monsters, but the Audi is the slightly meaner one. Both cars chomp into the pavement with the first steering input and then seem to get better as each gate passes. The R8's all-wheel drive makes it almost foolproof. With the traction control off, the speed was a stunning 72.3 mph. Even with the relatively unobtrusive traction control on, the R8 still motor-boated through at a world-class 70.9 mph.
     
    Using the Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) and Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) technologies to amazing effect, the 911 slaughtered the slalom with a 71.3-mph performance with the traction control off and 70.3 mph with it on. Considering that only the rear wheels are driven in the 911 and factoring in its more significant rear weight bias, the Porsche's performance counts as phenomenal.
     
    Beyond Mere Dreams
     
    But as astonishing as both cars' slalom runs were, it's on the skid pad where the real shocker came.
     
    Riding on 235/35R19 front and 295/30R19 rear Pirelli P Zeros, the R8 stuck to the pad all the way to 0.98g with the traction control turned on. At the limit the R8 would nose into understeer and it wasn't possible to nudge it into oversteer using the throttle. By any standard, the R8 had a great adhesive performance.
     
    The 911, however, was mind-boggling. Wearing 245/35ZR20 front and 295/30ZR20 rear Pirelli P Zeros, the 911 pulled a stunning 1.04g on the skid pad with the traction control turned off and an amazing 1.03g with it on. Either way, there's almost no body lean and the 911 sort of takes a gentle oversteering set (easily managed with throttle) and then pulls the driver's eyeballs out through his ears.
     
    More than a G from a car that is only the base upon which Turbos, GT2s and GT3s will be built in the near future. Wow.
     
    Halters
     
    Combine rearward weight biases with massive brakes and, no surprise, both these cars are mighty stoppers. Using medium to firm pedal application, both cars squat down over all four of their tires and flat eradicate forward motion. The R8 needed a scant 104 feet to haul itself down from 60 mph, while the Carrera S did the trick in an even scanter 102 feet. On a different surface, both these cars are likely capable of doing the 60-0 deed in under 100 feet.
     
    But beyond that, neither car exhibited any brake fade or any wheel shudders or shimmies.
     
    On the first lap around a road course, in either of these cars, drivers will find themselves braking later into each succeeding corner. On the second lap, every corner's apex will seem to have moved half-again deeper into the curve.
     
    Every R8 or 911 owner should extend the driveway into their estates a couple miles and add 13 or 14 corners between the front gate and the garage.
     
    Pitting the Cockpits
     
    Anyone who has driven an Acura NSX will feel at home in an R8. The cowl is low, the two seats are even lower and the instrumentation is in a pod directly in front of the driver. It's all very logical and a little cold.
     
    In contrast, and like previous 911s, the driver and shotgun passenger sit rather upright and tall in the newest version. The "Panamera Light" center console is taller than in any previous 911s, but it's neither off-putting nor particularly distracting. What is annoying is the small driver's footwell that seems optimized for two-pedal operation in PDK-equipped 911s. In the three-pedal manual transmission car, the driver's legs feel crammed over toward the centerline.
     
    The 911's rear seats are useless for human beings, but are useful for carrying sports bags, groceries or a Siberian Husky puppy. Surprisingly, it's a true everyday utility advantage over the R8.
     
    Both cockpits are covered in beautifully stitched leather and have perfectly shaped seats. But despite such sops to Porsche tradition as the left-mounted key and the five intersecting circles that contain the instrumentation, the 911 cockpit feels more 21st century than the R8's. And that's likely the century it's going to spend most of its time in.
     
    Choosing Between Brilliance and Brilliance
     
    Anyone rich enough to buy one of these cars can likely buy both. So buy both, and enjoy the variety.
     
    But of course that would be wasteful, so do yourself a favor and get the Porsche. The 911's interior is more flexible than the R8's, it's somewhat easier to get in and out of, and it rides a squishy bit better when chasing the horizon on long cruises. Plus, while it's initially fun to attract attention in the 2012 Audi R8, it grows tiresome about the fifth time a stranger comes up expecting a guided tour.
     
    Then, after all that, there's the simple fact that the 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S tested here runs about $125,000 as-tested while the R8 comes in at $128,715. Greatness is rarely cheap, but relatively speaking — and even well into six figures — the new 911 Carrera S is a great bargain.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

    Porsche 991 Carrera S vs Audi R8 -- Inside Line -- Article Link

    Porsche 991 Carrera S vs Audi R8 -- Inside Line -- Gallery Link

    Porsche 991 Carrera S vs Audi R8 -- Inside Line -- Video Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Nice comparative report - thanks for posting.  Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    The new issue of evo magazine has a comparison of the 991 Carrera S with the 997 GT3 by Chris Harris...

     

    Thanks for posting.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Amazing set of pics.

    J.Seven

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Walter Röhrl drives the Porsche 991 along the Col de Turini...
     
    "KING OF THE ROAD..."

    Christophorus - Porsche 991 - KING OF THE ROAD - 2.jpg

    Racing legend Walter Röhrl warms to the new 911 as he takes us along on the key stage of the Monte Carlo Rally. The Col de Turini gives driver and car a chance to shine.
     
    Christophorus - Porsche 991 - KING OF THE ROAD - 3.jpg
     
    Climb Mount Everest with Reinhold Messner, go to a red-carpet event with Karl Lagerfeld or Angelina Jolie, have dinner with Paul Bocuse, play 18 holes with Tiger Woods ... those scenarios all sound pretty special. But I can add one that’s even more exciting (i.e. faster): a trip up the Col de Turini in the new 911 with Walter Röhrl. The Col de Turini is a pass in the Massif du Mercantour in the French Maritime Alps. But it’s much more than just a geographical location—it elicits a wealth of associations for racing buffs.
     
    No one could tell more authentically about this special leg of the Monte Carlo Rally than Röhrl, who won the rally four times. “Up to 30,000 people would be waiting for us up at the top of the pass. You would come speeding up over the last hump toward the pass and suddenly you’d be blinded by a wall of camera flashes. And the next second, you’d go hurtling down the next side again on icy roads.” In the so-called Night of Turini—also known as the “Night of the Long Knives” due to the strong high-beam lights cutting through the night—in which race-car drivers have to navigate the Turini up to three times, the pressure on the lead driver is enormous. With his hungry opponents breathing down his neck, there are still around 700 or 800 kilometers (430 to 500 miles) between him and victory. “Starting into a curve a tiny fraction of a second too late or a little swerve causing your tail to hit one of the countless stone markers along the road was all it took to ruin your chances of winning,” says Röhrl.
     
    As if to illustrate the risky nature of the venture, he allows the tail of the new 911 to cut out, but never too far, in order to build traction for the next straight stretch ahead, which inevitably leads toward a knee-high wall of stone behind which mountainside takes a steep plunge, opening up stunning vistas of the landscape below.
     
    Christophorus - Porsche 991 - KING OF THE ROAD - 6.jpg
     
    Walter is calm and focused as he pilots the hurtling 911 and gives his expert assessment of its advantages. “As soon as you pick up a little speed, you feel the improved directional stability provided by the wider wheelbase. Those ten centimeters [3.93 inches] make a world of difference. We once extended the wheelbase of one of our race cars by one and one-half centimeters [0.6 inches], and everyone was amazed at how different the overall feeling was. It’s incredible. And to make sure that doesn’t lead to less agility in curves, the track has been widened. That means less understeering, and it actually hugs the curves even better—an enormous advantage, especially when it’s raining.” The switchback curves of the Col de Turini and the nearby Col de Braus are the ultimate test for a car’s cornering ability. And indeed, we note that despite the possibly record-breaking speeds at which we round the curves, the electronic chassis control of the 911 never comes into play once.
     
    For the record: “Let’s not kid ourselves: there are a lot of great sports cars out there today. They’re serious competition, but when you take the entire spectrum into consideration, that’s usually it. That’s where Porsche’s big strength lies—in the balancing act between super sports car and suitability for daily use. The new 911 has taken that even further. The car has become more comfortable and easier to handle and has become a lot faster, too, even on the racetrack. It’s just as much fun to drive with snow tires or when you have luggage in the back. I can take it out for a spin on the track one day, and I don’t even need to change the position of the seat when I make a run to the bakery to get fresh rolls the next morning.”
     
    It’s always a pleasure to watch Walter in action, his economical movements, the finesse with which he shifts the gears. He handles the 911 as skillfully as a jockey handling a thoroughbred horse. The car seems focused, responding with alacrity to each minute movement of the steering wheel, gas pedal, and brakes. “The car has also become stiffer, even though it’s 45 kilograms [99 pounds] lighter, which is a lot. The engineers managed to save a lot of weight thanks to the intelligent material mix featuring high-tensile steel combined with aluminum,” he says.
     
    We talk about the problems involved in moving in three dimensions. “It’s always easier to drive fast going uphill. If you make a mistake, the energy is dissipated more quickly. There’s a hell of a lot less room for error when you’re going downhill. And psychologically speaking, it’s just more difficult to drive downhill because you easily get sucked in by this hypnotic downward pull.”
     
    Christophorus - Porsche 991 - KING OF THE ROAD - 7.jpg
     
    When Walter Röhrl won, it wouldn’t be by just a few seconds: he used to leave his opponents in the dust. “There were certain things where I was dead set on being the best. One of them was the longest stage in the rally, because I knew that mentally I was by far the best prepared. The other was going downhill—because that’s what proves who has the best feel, regardless of engine performance. I even used to have people take interim times at the top of the pass, just for my own satisfaction. One time Sandro Munari reached the top in his Lancia forty-eight seconds before I did in my Fiat—and by the finish line I had a two-second lead over him.”
     
    I ask Walter what year he thinks our “civilian” Porsche 911 could have competed in the rally racing field (with minor modifications) with a realistic stab at winning. He ponders the question for a long time and excludes “pothole rallies” like the Acropolis Rally before saying that an asphalt rally in 1980 (the year he first won in Monte Carlo) would be a good match. “But riding to victory wasn’t nearly as comfortable then as driving a 911 today,” he says. And since we’re talking so openly, I ask him if he has anything to criticize about the new 911. “Well,” he says, “I really do miss the handbrake. For me, a handbrake is essential. But I guess the young engineers nowadays don’t see it that way.”
     
    Walter points out the window and we leave the world of Porsche for a moment as he shares his memories: “The first stage on the last night of the rally began right here, at Col de la Madone. I was always in the lead when we got here, and everyone would be talking about me winning— prematurely, of course. You just need to skid a few feet too far—and before you know it, it’s all over. I was always really wired at this point in the race. In 1982, for example, I was driving a rear-engine Opel, and Hannu Mikkola was behind me in his Audi Quattro. Ferdinand Piëch was there, and all day he had been talking about how Audi was going to increase the boost and really go in for the kill. And then I managed to get 27 seconds on Hannu in the stage. Afterwards he said to me, “I’m not going to launch any more attacks. There’s no point.”
     
    Gazing at a dip in the road, Walter goes on to recount another incident from his racing days. “In 1973 this was the last challenge we faced; it was dark and we were driving it in the opposite direction. After 7 kilometers [about 4.5 miles], in the switchback curve before you reach Sainte-Agnès, the half-axis of my Commodore gave out on me after 7,000 racing kilometers [4,350 miles]—12 kilometers [7.5 miles] before the finish line. That was not good at all.”
     
    Walter Röhrl has always been a perfectionist: “I would pay careful attention to what our ‘scouts’ reported on the driv- ing conditions further up and would always try to alternate between race driving and rally driving, depending on the nature of the road. I used to tell the scouts, ‘If you say there’s a stretch of asphalt 20 yards before the bend, then I’ll keep my foot on the gas pedal till the bitter end.’ And it always worked, too.”
     
    Before we pull up in front of the Trois Vallées, located at 1,600 meters (5,250 feet)—it’s one of the few hotel / restaurants near the summit—we ask Walter to give one final statement on the new Porsche 911. “It’s not just that the whole car is sleeker, more elegant, and more dynamic overall; it also has the technology to back up the impression. It’s more of a sports car than ever—it turns into the curves better; it’s more stable going straight ahead. The balancing act between the requirements of daily use and the requirements of a sports car has just become even more impressive. And the sound of the sports exhaust system! When you switch to Sport Mode, the electronic seven-speed direct shift gearbox will double-declutch when shifting down, producing a roar worthy of a race car.”
     
    What could we add to that? Looks like the new Porsche 911 has just opened a new chapter in the history of the Col de Turini.
     
    Christophorus - Porsche 991 - KING OF THE ROAD - 10b.jpg
     

    Porsche 991 on the Col de Turini with Walter Röhrl -- Christophorus pdf link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    WR Smiley


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    You gotta love this Porsche magazine! Such beautiful read all the way through it! Every single text!

    BC GTS, could you scan the bit with the future 918 engine? it's very interesting and informative...

    Cheers


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    0-300 km/h : 991 Carrera S VS 997 GT3 RS 4.0 (Motorsport)

    wink


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Outstanding report on WR driving the Col de Turini.  Wish I had 10% of his driving skill...  Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    dxpetrov:

    You gotta love this Porsche magazine! Such beautiful read all the way through it! Every single text!

    BC GTS, could you scan the bit with the future 918 engine? it's very interesting and informative...

    Cheers

    Article from official Porsche magazine "Christophorus" on the 918 Spyder engine...

    Porsche-918-Spyder-engine.jpg

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Thanks for the scan! So I guess the reveal date of the production car is Frankfurt 2013?


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Thanks for posting the 918 article.

    Is there more to this article?  There is no mention--as I can tell--of the hybrid battery system. 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    They made just a small hint ...

    918 tech.jpg


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Thanks Misha, I see it now...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Porsche 991 Carrera S video by AMS Sweden...

    Porsche-991-Carrera-S_Swedish-Stig.jpg

    Porsche 991 Carrera S -- AMS Sweden -- Video Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    We just published the english version of our first review of the car, and what a 911 it is ! Makes you wonder (and regret) why it took so long to Porsche to achieve such handling prowess. Side by side comparison with a 997 is shocking, almost comical. Very easy to figure out how Porsche can claim such agressive Nordschleife times. What is less comical is the weight trend. On real scales, the 991 is heavier than the 997, our test car came in at 1519kg with a full tank and nothing in it. Just like the 458, modern cars seem to be getting heavier in spite of the lower emissions they claim to achieve. Does not bode well for the next GT3 ...


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Interesting... Heavier..? I thought it was lighter..?

    Sure, a car that's 10 years on should be better - no surprises there.

    But I have no regrets at all having just bought my 997 - in fact the first 2 pictures above confirm that I have not only the prettier car, but also the more sporty looking one.
    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Very nice review!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Spyderidol:

    Very nice review!

    Is it?  

    Forgive me for sounding defensive (I'm really not - I have no doubt that I will get a 991 in 5,6, or maybe 10 years) but to suggest that the 997 is "comical" in comparison to the 991 is disingenuous to say the least.  

    Was the 993 comical in comparison to the 997? (I'm missing out the 996 to avoid confusion here.)

    Most people (even on this forum) wouldn't come close to being able to extract the most out of either car (i.e. a decent semi-pro driver could probably beat most of us around a track in a 964...) and most of us wouldn't actually care - we buy cars to enjoy the experience, not to see how fast we can go from A to B to the nearest second.

    Did you guys realise that the 997 was such a bad car - a "comical" car?Smiley  Should we all trade our 997s in for something less "comical", now that our knowledgeable hack has pointed out what a disaster it was?  (I wonder if one day he'll pronounce that the 991 is still comically rear-engined..?)  

    Comical is a silly word to use - and enough to make it a pretty dull article, considering that apart from the weight question (which has already been raised, as they point out themselves), they add nothing to what's already been said.


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    "Comical'' he used to compare it to 991, so who knows what would you find urself if being in same situation to drive both. It is a bit harsh but as same as with looks, it's all a matter of taste in a way. Enjoy ur GTS since it's just another Porsche so it can't be that ''bad''! ;)


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    You have to drive both cars back to back to realize the magnitude of the difference. We did so with two 997s, and three 997 owners (Carrera S, Carrera S Cab and GT3), and the verdict was unanimous. I have always been critical of the 996 and 997 handling (I've had three of those) and the 991 is a stellar demonstration that you do not have to accept such compromise to enjoy the other benefits of a 911.

    I don't think there is any reason to be defensive about it, it's a newer and much better car, as long as you consider that parting with the handling traits of older gen 911 is a good thing. Except for specialists who are able to work around the backpack idiosyncrasies on open roads, I believe that the vast majority of drivers and pilots will come to the same conclusion. The difference is ... comical.


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    I think comical is not a good word, the difference is big yes, makes the 997 chasis outdated, and as the picture of the two rear shows, also makes the 997 look outdated visually, but there is nothing comical about the 997, its still the same 997 we were all raving about until the 991. There are no flaws in the 997 its just that the 991 improved the 997 abilities, so much so that its an eye opening experience once you get into a 991, but the 997 is still just as fun and serious sportcar is was a month ago.
    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Budster:
    Spyderidol:

    Very nice review!

    Is it?  

    Forgive me for sounding defensive (I'm really not - I have no doubt that I will get a 991 in 5,6, or maybe 10 years) but to suggest that the 997 is "comical" in comparison to the 991 is disingenuous to say the least.  

    Was the 993 comical in comparison to the 997? (I'm missing out the 996 to avoid confusion here.)

    Most people (even on this forum) wouldn't come close to being able to extract the most out of either car (i.e. a decent semi-pro driver could probably beat most of us around a track in a 964...) and most of us wouldn't actually care - we buy cars to enjoy the experience, not to see how fast we can go from A to B to the nearest second.

    Did you guys realise that the 997 was such a bad car - a "comical" car?Smiley  Should we all trade our 997s in for something less "comical", now that our knowledgeable hack has pointed out what a disaster it was?  (I wonder if one day he'll pronounce that the 991 is still comically rear-engined..?)  

    Comical is a silly word to use - and enough to make it a pretty dull article, considering that apart from the weight question (which has already been raised, as they point out themselves), they add nothing to what's already been said.


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

    The writer engaged in a bit of hyperbole to better illustrate an opinion (ala Clarkson).  I understand that some 997 owners would get their knickers in a twist, but lets not gutter the whole review because of a "controversial" choice of a word. I enjoyed reading it, so for me, it was a nice review.

    I also learned that the increase in wheelbase was Motorsport driven, which for me is a good thing, considering the "difficulties" that the 997RSR was experiencing against its opposition. 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Hi zeshark . Nice to see you around.  I hope you can test the 7 speed manual soon, I would be interested to see a comparison.. My P dealer has mentioned to me that even the guys from Asphalte  have now switched to PDK and not ordered the manual 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Hi Gnil, nice to "see" you too !

    We *should* be able to test the manual before the end of January. The new PDK is indeed a big improvement over the 997.2, and one of us has indeed changed his mind (and his order for his new Cab S) as a result of this test. The 7 speed manual is a question mark by now, and the 997 Carrera gearbox with sport shift will be a tough benchmark to match. As for the GT3, I am not holding my breath. Late 2013 still sounds far away.


    --

    997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Would love to hear your impressions on the 991 manual, especially by someone with experience with the 997's to compare. Looking foward to it.
    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    For what it's worth "Autocar" have been one of the very few magazines to test a  7 speed manual 991.

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Porsche-911-3.8-Carrera-S-/260150/

    "The seven-speed manual is more of a technical than practical success. Perhaps the clue is in the fact that Porsche has seen fit to display the gear you are in at the centre of the instrument console; with seven gears to choose from you can both find yourself struggling to be confident with shifts and losing track of what gear you are in. Whisper it, but on a fast twisting road the slick shifting PDK is actually more fun, as its easier to snatch a gear on the corner exit or change down at the last moment, as well as delivering better fuel economy and emissions whatever the conditions."

    I'm sure some won't agree yes


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    reginos:

    PDK is actually more fun, as its easier to snatch a gear on the corner exit or change down at the last moment, 

    I never missed the manual in these moments, as it is true that PDK is as fun and involving ( with the paddles ) during fast driving  in twisties  or on a track like the Nordschleife . As you can play a lot more with the gears then with a manual and you are anyway busy with trying to have the best and fasted line and trying to be at the limits of your car.

    When on a ' straight' track with not much challenge, then the PDK gets boring and during normal driving it can also get boring .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    I'm of the opinion that this new 7spd manual isn't on same level as the old 6spd, hence doesn't provide same experience. Probably is its nature of being actually based on PDK itself or is it a lack of development. Maybe the FL will address its flaws..


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991... (LAUNCH thread)

    Zeshark,

    I am a HUGE fan of your website Asphalte!!! Congratulations, in depth reviews and most importantly, you weigh the cars that come from the dealership, not the presscars, so we get real weight figures from costumer cars.

    Yes the weight of the 991 fully equipped comes at a very disappointing 100 kgs over the quoted official figure, but having said that, improvements in chassis and gearbox make it a nicer drive it would seem than the 997.

    I do remember when you tested a 458 that it came also way over 100 kgs more, but you'd expect that from our Italian friends, Porsche is generally more conservative.

    I am looking forward to try a 991, in the meantime, thanks for you review, I read the french one some weeks ago and as all you reviews, it's simply excellent.

     


     
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