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    Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Check out 4car.co.uk

    I don't know if i believe we will see it late this year or that it will ever get the rumoured 300bhp

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    As far as I heard, official presentation will be in Geneva next year. There is a rumor that a style study will be available at the Paris Autoshow this year.
    The Boxster Coupe looks very nice (I saw a picture...yes, the final thing) but I'm afraid around 280 HP are the last word regarding power. A more powerful model can't be excluded later on but right now all rumors indicate max. 280 HP on the new Boxster.

    I think Porsche has to set their priorities straight, they can't sell "underpowered" cars anymore.
    If they think they can charge for Boxster S (280 HP version) customers almost the same money as Mercedes charges for a V8 SLK55 AMG, they're wrong.

    MORE POWER for the Boxster and the 911 is needed if Porsche wants to stay competitive. The rumored 320-350 HP on the new 997 are...ridiculous.
    The new 997 has to have minium 360 HP, the "S" version minimum 400 HP. People want power, especially since most of them never heard of a power/weight ratio. Power sells, Mercedes proved that very well.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    I'm not only afraid that the 997 will get only 320-350 HP but also that on top of it, it may gain some weight too, which would be even worse. Any rumors on the 997's weight compared to the 996?

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    I'm not only afraid that the 997 will get only 320-350 HP but also that on top of it, it may gain some weight too, which would be even worse. Any rumors on the 997's weight compared to the 996?



    I've been assured that there won't be any weight gain on the 997. Well, of course this doesn't mean it won't happen.
    You, me and others may care about weight but trust me, most people look at power figures. And if product A has 500 HP and product B only 400 HP, people choose product A. No matter if the power/weight ratio is the same.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    And if product A has 500 HP and product B only 400 HP, people choose product A. No matter if the power/weight ratio is the same.


    These people are not right, but it's true though unfortunately.
    HP sells unlike chassis finesse, brakes, overall homogeneity, sad but true. The SL really is a cow to drive, 500 or 55AMG, but it sells for sure.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    RC said:

    I think Porsche has to set their priorities straight, they can't sell "underpowered" cars anymore.


    People want power, especially since most of them never heard of a power/weight ratio. Power sells, Mercedes proved that very well.



    RC,

    Do you, as a Porsche fan, think it is really such a bad thing that people who could not appreciate a Porsche's qualities do not buy one?

    fritz

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    The SL really is a cow to drive, 500 or 55AMG, but it sells for sure.



    Fanch,

    You should be ashamed of yourself!

    Do you have no respect for Bilal's feelings?

    fritz

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    Do you have no respect for Bilal's feelings?




    Ermm.... No
    Easy now guys, just teasing.
    The SL is fantastic at what it's supposed to do, cruising. And for the AMG version, add drag racing to that, but what a heavy fat mama!!!!

    PS: Pic is really lame, but the SL does exactly what it's supposed to do, make me look good!
    /uploads/28308-DSC_0048.jpg

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Oh boy, almost a year of Mac ownership and I still don't know how to resize a pic, what a loser! That pic is ridiculous, so small!!!!

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    RC said:most people look at power figures. And if product A has 500 HP and product B only 400 HP, people choose product A. No matter if the power/weight ratio is the same.



    Sad but so true, RC

    On one side the 996 in its introduction was actually a few pounds (very few) lighter than the previous 993, however the 996 in the 2002 re-style gained some pounds back, and this 997 being "based" on the 996 I don't know what to think. But I am confident Porsche knows how important weight is in the 911 "following".

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Do you, as a Porsche fan, think it is really such a bad thing that people who could not appreciate a Porsche's qualities do not buy one?

    fritz



    To be honest: I wish only real enthusiasts would buy a Porsche and those posers, wannabees, etc. would buy something else. But of course this isn't possible.
    Porsche has to stay alive and they need to earn money. The Cayenne is a first step in the right direction and I bought one because it is a very nice product (but of course no sports car). I'm just afraid that a lot of people out there don't care about how a car feels but how it looks and how much power it has. Porsche has a certain reputation, this is why people buy a Porsche, not necessarily that they believe it is the best sports car in the world. Look at the Lamborghini Gallardo: as much as I hate to admit it but if I had to choose between the Gallardo and the current 996 Turbo, I'd go for the Lamborghini.
    But maybe this is a bad example because the Gallardo is really a good sports car and very fast.
    And what Fanch said about the SL might be true...or not. I know several people who bought a SL (SL500 and SL55) and they didn't buy a Porsche for three reasons: a Porsche is too "flashy", too stiff and hasn't enough power (SL55 buyers).
    Well, I can't say I don't agree but the bottom line is: what customers does Porsche want? Right, ALL customers because they want to earn money. So the only choice to attract all kind of customers is to build something for the posers, wannabees but something for the real Porsche enthusiasts too. And not every Porsche enthusiast can afford buying a GT2 or even the Carrera GT.
    So my point is: Porsche should put as much power into their cars as technically possible without making them really dangerous or undriveable. Then, they should offer different versions of their cars, the rumored 997 "S" version is a good start if it really is sportier and more powerful than the base model. Finally, HP figures sell much better than weight/ratio figures (honestly: what specs do you look up first on a sports car?) and Porsche HAS to learn that.
    Look at the new BMW M5. From 0-125 mph, it easily outruns the 996 Turbo. So if the M5 is faster than the traditional 911 (type 997) sports car, where does Porsche's reputation go to? Right, right down the drain.
    I don't expect Porsche to build a 997 which does 0-125 mph in 10 seconds but at least to be able to cope with sporty limousines like the M5 and E55. Of course we might get a speed limit sooner or later in Germany and maybe top speeds and 0-125 mph acceleration times count less than now.
    But I can't help it: if a limousine is faster than a sports car, it is somehow not right, no matter if the sports car beats the limousine in the next curve.
    And last but not least: Porsche's most important market is the US. In the US, power figures sell, much more than in any other country. Americans are used to high power engines, in the 80s when our sports cars drove around with 250 HP, some of their "muscle cars" had much more than 300 HP. I don't say that HP figures are the most important thing but they sell cars. The Boxster lost a lot of support in the US because it is underpowered and people probably had the feeling that they're not getting enought for their money. They expected a little 911, not an entry level Porsche.
    When my wife wanted to buy a new car and we had to decide between the SLK 32 AMG and the Boxster S, I was surprised to learn that the Boxster S was almost the same money as the SLK 32 AMG. Especially since my Porsche dealer doesn't want to give rebate and my Mercedes dealer gave me 9%.
    Now let's compare the straight line acceleration and the retractable hard top and honestly, I think the SLK 32 is the better value. Of course Porsche is also about emotions and passion but where the hell is the passion in an underpowered car if any limousine outruns you? I haven't been to the track for a long time and with the exception of the Leipzig event, I usually drive on the Autobahn or some country roads.
    Yes, the Boxster S is more fun than the SLK 32 but is it enough to overlook the "weak" engine?
    I bet the new Boxster will have a tough time versus the new SLK, especially since the SLK 350 has almost 280 HP (ring any bells why...?). Not to speak about the SLK 55.

    Porsche shouldn't say I didn't warn them: if they loose a reputation and a market (especially the US market), it is very difficult to gain trust (and customers) again.
    The new Boxster and the 997 will decide Porsche's fate in the future because it can't go on like that with the Cayenne forever. As soon as the new ML and the new X5 show up, Cayenne sales will drop. This is nothing special, it is pretty normal. And I'm not sure if the 4th model will be able to "compensate" for possible Cayenne, Boxster and 911 losses.
    Porsche has to take a decision for the future: YES, we build THE sports car icon, the 911. YES, we give customers what they want. YES, the Boxster isn't only an entry level Porsche for "poor" people but a real Porsche with real power.

    I hope I'm wrong but I think the next 3-5 years will be a tough time for Porsche. Especially since I can't hide the feeling that Mercedes started to target Porsche's main competition fields. It is no secret that the CL65 AMG has 612 HP for one reason and it is no secret that Mercedes has the technical capability to put a lot of pressure on Porsche.
    I'm also afraid that BMW tries to conquer Porsche's traditional product segment by building some highly interesting sports cars in the future.
    I wish Porsche well and after the Leipzig event I'm sure they have the potential to survive the competition but it needs more than an image or 280 HP on a Boxster.
    Give people what they want and everybody is happy.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    "To be honest: I wish only real enthusiasts would buy a Porsche and those posers, wannabees, etc. would buy something else. But of course this isn't possible."


    RC actually its possible :-), especially if Porsche profits reinvested in market education :-)

    With all my respect to you, you are talking from your point of view, without having marketing research who is buying Porsche, what values driving the brand and what are the key reasons behind the buying decision and the most important - ROI. I say most of Porsche buyers see the ROI that they buy a real car with unmatched real (as you said power weight distribution will be one of them) characteristics. But again this is my perspective. working in the marketing I have to tell you without the numbers and deep market research all this discussion is useless. Your point may be right, but in short term and vice versa.

    Why Corvette sales dont grow like crazy and capture 100% of the market share?

    My point of view is that I hope and pray that Porsche will stick with what it did until now and that means building real sport cars without compromising to satisfy "fake" value that is currently in fashion on the market such as horse power.

    Last wortd about Cayenne - I think Porsche did a great job and created the best car, if you wish the best sport car in the category of SUV - which is sport (yes sport) utility. It just happen to be that Porsche redefined this category and created a real sport utility :-) since all others (and I had some of them) are well fake again comapring to Cayenne :-)

    Enjoy your Cayenne, you just helped Porsche to survive few more hours :-)

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Btw I am thinking for some time to add Boxter to 2 of my Porsche. Probably 2003 S...I have one more space in my garage to fill :-)

    RC, you said you saw the final pic of new Boxter coming next year. So I wanted to ask what are the major differencies? Does the car look still try to follow the 50's speedster lines or its more small 997 type of car?

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    lev said:
    With all my respect to you, you are talking from your point of view, without having marketing research who is buying Porsche, what values driving the brand and what are the key reasons behind the buying decision and the most important - ROI. I say most of Porsche buyers see the ROI that they buy a real car with unmatched real (as you said power weight distribution will be one of them) characteristics. But again this is my perspective. working in the marketing I have to tell you without the numbers and deep market research all this discussion is useless. Your point may be right, but in short term and vice versa.




    I don't have to do any market research to know that if Porsche sales drop further, the company will be in trouble sooner or later. The Cayenne saved them for the past 12 months but how long can a company survive who's tradition and reputation is based on sports cars, not SUVs?!
    Right now Porsche's strategy for the near future seems actually only to be based on a stronger US Dollar and a strengthening US economy. I'm not sure if this strategy is good enough to survive.
    The 997 and the Boxster won't be revolutionary but evolutionary products. The Boxster actually profits more from the model change than the 911. But it doesn't look spectacular. The Boxster Coupe is a nice product but some people could mistaken it for a cheap 911.
    The 997 and the 987 are very nice products but they aren't as different from the 996 and 986 as the 993 was different from the 996.
    Porsche faces a tough competition from all sides and enthusiasts like me and you aren't enough to keep them alive.
    If Porsche wants to survive, they have to adapt to markets.
    I'm really curious to see what happens over the next few years because it will be highly interesting.

    Right now I just think that Porsche has to do EVERYTHING to provide customers with the most fantastic product they can get for their money. And I'm afraid this won't happen...

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Interesting to know if this is the first time of such "crysis" in Porsche history. I was looking at Porsche balance recently and its very much strong balance sheet in my view - best profits in car industry, cash position etc. Btw I think cheap usd and expensive Euro actually hurts Porsche sales (and this is for the last year and half), since the cars being made in Europe and so they cost more for US consumer.

    Dont worry RC , you are doing a great job to run this board and as a result make more Porsche sales :-)

    Seriously after this Leipzig report, I am thinking...how much insurance for CGT it would be :-) just thinking

    Take care

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Hey RC,

    When I posted my one-liner, I didn't dream you'd respond by writing a book!

    Do I get to share in the royalties for providing the inspiration?

    I hear and understand everything you're saying. Without in any way wanting to say that Porsche should be complacent, I do think that a part of the situation with sportscar sales will be down to the fact that it is generally known that some model changes are coming up. (Thanks in part to Rennteam!).

    When the fog clears and the speculation about new models stops, we'll all be in a better position to judge the underlying situation.
    Up to a point I agree with a sentiment expressed (I think) by Lev: If it's all about cheap straight-line performance, why hasn't the Corvette already cleaned up?

    fritz

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    I was thinking the same thing about the Corvette, and with those certain customers more interested in power than sophistication, the Corvette has been the answer. The Corvette has done very well with that customer. For those that believe power is everything, the Dodge Viper does very well. In the entire history of the 911 you have always been able to buy more power for less money. Of course Porsche can't disregard what others are doing with horsepower but that will never be their sole approach.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    I was thinking the same thing about the Corvette, and with those certain customers more interested in power than sophistication, the Corvette has been the answer. The Corvette has done very well with that customer. For those that believe power is everything, the Dodge Viper does very well. In the entire history of the 911 you have always been able to buy more power for less money. Of course Porsche can't disregard what others are doing with horsepower but that will never be their sole approach.



    But the previous generation Z06 was a great match for even the 996 Turbo, at less than half the price. We'll see how the new C6 performs alongside the new 997 and then judge. These are not just straight line cars anymore. And they are a bargain.

    I agree with many of RCs points. I think the key if Porsche can truly differentiate the lines (say with the "S" models) and charge a bit more (no, not GT2-level more!) for that performance, then there will be enough to make everyone happy.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    ''But the previous generation Z06 was a great match for even the 996 Turbo, at less than half the price. We'll see how the new C6 performs alongside the new 997 and then judge. These are not just straight line cars anymore. And they are a bargain."

    On a straigh line may be, though I doubt it. You see there are cars that beat Porsche on accelaration but lose on handling and there are cars that beat Porsche on handling but lose on accelaration :-)

    But if you are into drag racing this is a great car :-) though there are MazdaRX7 that make 0-100 in 3 secs (after market power package) and cost still half of Z06 for that matter.

    You should really talk to some Z06 owners who will tell you stories about rear part of the car becames uncontrolable once you start driving little faster while turning. Calls slalom. The car is a junk hard to believe we even talk about it here as Viper or Mustang SVT to this matter.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    The SL really is a cow to drive, 500 or 55AMG, but it sells for sure.



    Fanch,

    You should be ashamed of yourself!

    Do you have no respect for Bilal's feelings?

    fritz




    Thank you Fritz, even though they may be a slight hint of a sarcastic joke there....but still, you remembered

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Lev, I don't know the driving skills of those who say the Z06 is uncontrollable in a slalom, but down in my area, the Z06's pretty much set fastest stock time of the day in most autocrosses, and I very rarely see one out of control. Unfortunately one rarely sees a newer Porsche other than a Boxster at events in my area so one can not know which would be faster for sure, but the Corvettes at least seem quite fast and controllable. I feel that the difference between the Porsches and the Corvettes is in the more subjective "feel" department rather than actual performance. I did test drive a Corvette before I purchased my last Viper, and even the Viper felt better assembled than the Corvette I tested.

    Re: Boxster Coupe Spy Shot Update (4car UK)

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    When the fog clears and the speculation about new models stops, we'll all be in a better position to judge the underlying situation.





    You sound like somebody who works for Porsche.
    I don't know about the 997 but the Boxster will have a hard time against the new SLK.
    And I know from a pretty reliable source that Mercedes plans to enter the typical 911 market too in the near future.
    Not to speak about BMW's new M3 (or M4) with 400 HP and a V8 engine.
    The most important market is the US. If Americans don't want the 997, Porsche is in trouble. As far as how the 997 looks alike, I think it has good chances to sell well. But the interior could be more classy. On the other hand I like the fact that Porsche didn't go for a radical design change because it would make the 996 look outdated.

    The next 3 years will be pretty interesting.

     
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