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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Red Bull isn't a privateer team. Your conspiracy machine is running full steam dude.

    Red Bull never started off with Renault engines, did you know that? They have ran Ford, Ferrari, Renault, and now Honda engines with their own chassis. <--- That's the classic definition of a privateer team, sourcing engine from someone else to run on their own chassis. Next year they will be a full constructor works team with their own branded engine on their own chassis. 

    Will VAG become a deep pocket team like Mercedes or Ferrari when they finally enters F1? Nah. We will never know, as there will be a cost cap for every team. But would they if there aren't a cap? Nah, they will still spend like a Renault, or else they could have joined F1 a while ago before there is a cap.

    You are free to believe in your own ideas, just that no one else will be. 

    Whoopsy, you are totally lost in budgets. Budget cap is made for teams (and only for chassis dev), not for engine development. Engine side has no caps. There will be the freeze until new engines come.

    For your info merc invests 40 mil euro in team (maybe a bit more). All other money are from sponsors and f1 itself. If you like autosport and want analyse, once again, my advice, read more serious literature, not motorsport and autosport. Or you can talk to Jacques, I am sure he can give you some insights. That would be the best 

    I wont comment other - I give you info, you give me motorsport.com articles. If I want motorsport.com "analytics" mixed with coffee and donuts, Ill go there, not to rennteam


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    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    thuggy:

    Severely doubt VAG would have been a heavy spender like Mercedes and Ferrari.   The core argument of introducing the budget cap in the first place was to attract new manufacturers (ie VAG) and retain existing (ie Renault) who would not (not could not) spend at the same levels as Mercedes and Ferrari.

    Interesting fact about 919. By the end of lifecycle in 2017 after the introduction of passive jet ignition they were able to achieve 44% thermal eff. Considering the fact they ran e20 - 20 ethanol regulated fuel (ethanol has much less BTU) their achievement was awesome. Also, I tend to believe that they measured it without the front mguk. That means that they are potentially surpassed merc with 50% (these guys measured eff with f1 fuel of course made for their engine and with mguk (which is built into engine)). These wec cars were trully awesome. Of course much less comp ratio 13 to 1 against 18 to 1, but the reason is reliability and lower revs. The lower the revs the harder to achieve the higher comp ratio because of detonation risk caused by longer time at high dead point


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    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:
    Whoopsy:

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Red Bull isn't a privateer team. Your conspiracy machine is running full steam dude.

    Red Bull never started off with Renault engines, did you know that? They have ran Ford, Ferrari, Renault, and now Honda engines with their own chassis. <--- That's the classic definition of a privateer team, sourcing engine from someone else to run on their own chassis. Next year they will be a full constructor works team with their own branded engine on their own chassis. 

    Will VAG become a deep pocket team like Mercedes or Ferrari when they finally enters F1? Nah. We will never know, as there will be a cost cap for every team. But would they if there aren't a cap? Nah, they will still spend like a Renault, or else they could have joined F1 a while ago before there is a cap.

    You are free to believe in your own ideas, just that no one else will be. 

    Whoopsy, you are totally lost in budgets. Budget cap is made for teams (and only for chassis dev), not for engine development. Engine side has no caps. There will be the freeze until new engines come.

    For your info merc invests 40 mil euro in team (maybe a bit more). All other money are from sponsors and f1 itself. If you like autosport and want analyse, once again, my advice, read more serious literature, not motorsport and autosport. Or you can talk to Jacques, I am sure he can give you some insights. That would be the best 

    I wont comment other - I give you info, you give me motorsport.com articles. If I want motorsport.com "analytics" mixed with coffee and donuts, Ill go there, not to rennteam


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    sportcars-history.com

     

     

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Renault spent nearly as much as Mercedes did on engines.

    With that kind of results, all those involved would have been sacked 10 times over. Renault has their own internal spending cap for engine developments, it's not a black hole for them to keep dumping money in. Renault-Nissan aren't the most profitable or successful car maker to start off with you know? 

    Oh, and whatever you sent me via pm, mostly junk, can't be bothered with. 


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    I understand your dissapointment, but you write the total mess. You totally dont understand the financial model the f1 teams work and you are totally out of technology there. Maybe your knowledge in this field is enough for basics on forums, but the deeper we go, the worse. Typical fan talk, 0 analysis.

    Ok, if you call junk racecar engineering, racer, automobil sport, josef katz books, motorfan, race tech, race engine technology journals, then there is nothing to discuss. Small hint - these journals are like Nature for scientists. 

    P.s. Of course, even the guys like Ludwigsen make the mistakes in books, f.e. he made some mistakes with the engine origin of Ferrari 212 montagna (its not a dino but 1512 sibling), but what he has written is substantial to understand motorsports and its roots.
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    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:
    kudryavchik:
    Whoopsy:

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Red Bull isn't a privateer team. Your conspiracy machine is running full steam dude.

    Red Bull never started off with Renault engines, did you know that? They have ran Ford, Ferrari, Renault, and now Honda engines with their own chassis. <--- That's the classic definition of a privateer team, sourcing engine from someone else to run on their own chassis. Next year they will be a full constructor works team with their own branded engine on their own chassis. 

    Will VAG become a deep pocket team like Mercedes or Ferrari when they finally enters F1? Nah. We will never know, as there will be a cost cap for every team. But would they if there aren't a cap? Nah, they will still spend like a Renault, or else they could have joined F1 a while ago before there is a cap.

    You are free to believe in your own ideas, just that no one else will be. 

    Whoopsy, you are totally lost in budgets. Budget cap is made for teams (and only for chassis dev), not for engine development. Engine side has no caps. There will be the freeze until new engines come.

    For your info merc invests 40 mil euro in team (maybe a bit more). All other money are from sponsors and f1 itself. If you like autosport and want analyse, once again, my advice, read more serious literature, not motorsport and autosport. Or you can talk to Jacques, I am sure he can give you some insights. That would be the best 

    I wont comment other - I give you info, you give me motorsport.com articles. If I want motorsport.com "analytics" mixed with coffee and donuts, Ill go there, not to rennteam


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    sportcars-history.com

     

     

    Keep trying to convince yourself that Renault spent nearly as much as Mercedes did on engines.

    With that kind of results, all those involved would have been sacked 10 times over. Renault has their own internal spending cap for engine developments, it's not a black hole for them to keep dumping money in. Renault-Nissan aren't the most profitable or successful car maker to start off with you know? 

    Oh, and whatever you sent me via pm, mostly junk, can't be bothered with. 

    "Keep trying to convince yourself that Renault spent nearly as much as Mercedes did on engines." - where have I written that Renault spent the same money as Mercedes? Total mess Whoopsy


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    sportcars-history.com


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    kudryavchik:

    Ok, if you call junk racecar engineering, racer, automobil sport, josef katz books, motorfan, race tech, race engine technology journals, then there is nothing to discuss. Small hint - these journals are like Nature 

    This doesn’t make any sense at all.


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    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    spudgun:
    kudryavchik:

    Ok, if you call junk racecar engineering, racer, automobil sport, josef katz books, motorfan, race tech, race engine technology journals, then there is nothing to discuss. Small hint - these journals are like Nature 

    This doesn’t make any sense at all.

    to you yes (i've previously sent Whoopsy the link to the part of my library, he says its junk - articles from Dieter Rencken, f.e., is junkSmiley its a jokeSmiley) Its the same, or even better, than to say Renault is a not deep pocket car makerSmiley

    If the experts there don't understand that the f1 team and engine department has a separate budget, and that the team budget consists of own team money (in case of merc this is some kind of separate structure and merc invests only 10-15%), sponsors&partners money, prize money and arranged FOM funds, then what we are talking about)) Engine dept money consists of manufacturer own budget and the money gained from the supply contracts. 
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    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Screen Shot 2022-01-07 at 5.47.09 PM.png

    Now why would I want to click on a link from a complete stranger off the internet, with stuff in Russian that I cannot understand 🤔


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    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Lol 😄


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    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Screen Shot 2022-01-07 at 5.47.09 PM.png

    Now why would I want to click on a link from a complete stranger off the internet, with stuff in Russian that I cannot understand 🤔

    First of all the post of private message in public is not very ethic. Second - you were under the link;)

    Ok, lets go back to our topic. Where I have written that Renault spent more than merc on engines? 


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    sportcars-history.com


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    spudgun:

    Lol 😄

    Tabaqui? Smiley


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    sportcars-history.com

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    If you find that unethical, here’s a tip: don’t talk about info here you only shared in DM’s. 👍🏼


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    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

     


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Talk is talk, screenshot of the private message is different. Moreover I was silent about the url I sent to whoopsy. It was in whoopsy message to tell I sent him junk. Before that I was only talking about the necessity to work with a more professional sources, like the journals mentioned above. So your comment, again, out of sense. 


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    sportcars-history.com


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    Yawn. You killed this thread. Congrats. 


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    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: [2021] Formula 1

    spudgun:

    Yawn. You killed this thread. Congrats. 

    What?! Lol


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    sportcars-history.com

     


     
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