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    Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Here are the key results:

    NBR: 7.52
    HHR: 1.11,3
    0-200: 11.6s
    200-0: 133.9m
    Speed on Doettinger Hoehe: 288kph
    Weight of test car: 1590kg

    Obviously, the results are rather disappointing. Even more so as Sportauto tried 3 (!) different LP560-4. The first two had serious suspension issues (very instable setup), the last was better (changed suspension setup!). However, the car suffered from a poorly programmed ABS.

    In summary: a total disaster

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Why is it so heavy!!!!!!!!!

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    ouch

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Slower than a 997 FL with PDK and cups...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    ...and as fast as 997 Turbo with Cups.

    What is the problem with LP560-4? Apparently suspension setup. Also new engine is very powerfull and this is another problem for not-so-good chassis...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    ...and as fast as 997 Turbo with Cups.

    What is the problem with LP560-4? Apparently suspension setup. Also new engine is very powerfull and this is another problem for not-so-good chassis...



    IMO Lamborghini need a bit more Audi input on the suspension area!

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    ...and as fast as 997 Turbo with Cups.

    What is the problem with LP560-4? Apparently suspension setup. Also new engine is very powerfull and this is another problem for not-so-good chassis...



    100% true. Also, the ABS brake system seems to be flawed. The ABS setup seems to have massive problems with the Corsa tires...

    Biggest issue I have with this test: how can it be that Lamborghini gets three (!) chances to achieve a good test result and still the outcome is a nightmare? Who would buy a car with serious brake issues to start with

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    I don't know what the issue is with the brakes (are they carbon? )

    But I do know the suspension is completely new. As a matter of fact, the rear suspension and subframe is directly ported from the Audi R8. In addition all the suspension mounting points have new bushings.

    Hmmm, it had to be a tire issue. Amazing how these news cars are very very finicky about the kind of tires that are put on them.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Yes, suspension is partially taken from R8... Just not Magentic Ride for example. Also somehow new 5.2L engine like R8s longer wheel base more then shorter LP560-4 as you will see when Audi introduces R8 V10. It will be faster on any track then LP560-4.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    ...and as fast as 997 Turbo with Cups.

    What is the problem with LP560-4? Apparently suspension setup. Also new engine is very powerfull and this is another problem for not-so-good chassis...



    100% true. Also, the ABS brake system seems to be flawed. The ABS setup seems to have massive problems with the Corsa tires...

    Biggest issue I have with this test: how can it be that Lamborghini gets three (!) chances to achieve a good test result and still the outcome is a nightmare? Who would buy a car with serious brake issues to start with



    Totally agree. In the recent history, it is the biggest disappointment, even more than that of the 997tt.

    And as so judiciously pointed out they had 3 attempts!

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    And thanks to the Supertest to put on the spot the true hiearchy within the sports car world.

    Other tests may suggest the LP560-4 is on paar with the GT2 And 430 Scuderia, but it is not.
    These 2 remain the 2 ultimate sportscars one can acquire IMHO.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    Sportauto may have some credibility problems. Are we to believe they are they only ones that know how to drive and test a car?

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    I agree and have a hard time understanding this. I'd like to add some comments based on SA's test documentation to clarify the lap time:

    a. the newly-introduced bushings on the first and second press car caused, according to v. Saurma, a very instable car during load changes, the third car, equipped with the traditional elastomer bushings, was much more civilized in this regard

    b. for some reason, the ABS system did not perfectly operate with the Pirelli sport tires, obviously lacking appropriate adaption. The somewhat longer brake distances were seen as the main reason for the resulting Nurburgring laptime. According to SA, the car would have even beaten the Superleggera's 7.46 otherwise.

    c. the car's handling must have been more demanding than, as Kreso stated, on the R8 despite similiar suspension geometry.

    Still, I cannot see the complaints I have read above. After all, unlike the Scuderia or GT2, I would not view the LP560-4 as a track tool so, in my personal opinion, the Nurburgring performance is somewhat negligible to me. Unlike the other two, it is not especially aimned at that purpose.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Disappointing for sure, but it's still a nice looking machine. They will get it sorted out.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    I don't know what the issue is with the brakes (are they carbon? )

    But I do know the suspension is completely new. As a matter of fact, the rear suspension and subframe is directly ported from the Audi R8. In addition all the suspension mounting points have new bushings.

    Hmmm, it had to be a tire issue. Amazing how these news cars are very very finicky about the kind of tires that are put on them.



    In fact, the new suspension mounting points were the source of the problems with the first two cars. In the third car they used the older suspension mounting which seemed to work better.

    The problem with the brakes is the ABS setup.

    Tires worked well, BTW. It was just the rest of the car which was not OK

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    That indeed highlights why most of us don't give much about the various (and partly dubious) magazine tests. Look, for example, at the test results AUM posted in "Car of the Year" award. In this list the LP560-4 seems to perform well... Also, the GTR seems to perform well...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    Sportauto may have some credibility problems. Are we to believe they are they only ones that know how to drive and test a car?



    Yes, indeed. Their test results are the most relevant by far. This car seems to be flawed

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    I agree and have a hard time understanding this. I'd like to add some comments based on SA's test documentation to clarify the lap time:

    a. the newly-introduced bushings on the first and second press car caused, according to v. Saurma, a very instable car during load changes, the third car, equipped with the traditional elastomer bushings, was much more civilized in this regard

    b. for some reason, the ABS system did not perfectly operate with the Pirelli sport tires, obviously lacking appropriate adaption. The somewhat longer brake distances were seen as the main reason for the resulting Nurburgring laptime. According to SA, the car would have even beaten the Superleggera's 7.46 otherwise.

    c. the car's handling must have been more demanding than, as Kreso stated, on the R8 despite similiar suspension geometry.

    Still, I cannot see the complaints I have read above. After all, unlike the Scuderia or GT2, I would not view the LP560-4 as a track tool so, in my personal opinion, the Nurburgring performance is somewhat negligible to me. Unlike the other two, it is not especially aimned at that purpose.



    Two comments on your reasonable points above:

    1. Lamborghini should have not released a car that had not been developed fully and thoroughly tested in all areas. It is not a supermini but a supercar and even small details count.

    2. NBR may be officially a track but really it is the nearest to a demanding road route. So behaviour and performance is significant for any road car too. They even test SUVs there.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Yes, suspension is partially taken from R8... Just not Magentic Ride for example. Also somehow new 5.2L engine like R8s longer wheel base more then shorter LP560-4 as you will see when Audi introduces R8 V10. It will be faster on any track then LP560-4.



    I thought the new LP had Magna-Ride? No?
    And it's not surprising about the wheelbase thing - every designer knows as you increase HP, generally you have to lengthen wheelbase to help better manage the power.

    That was the fatal flaw with the early 911 Turbos and A/C Cobras. Wicked amounts of horsepower and torque on a short wheelbase = disasterous handling.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    So R8 V10...the CAR of 2009 Kreso?

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    Sportauto may have some credibility problems. Are we to believe they are they only ones that know how to drive and test a car?



    Yes, indeed. Their test results are the most relevant by far. This car seems to be flawed



    What I don't understand is we are led to believe that all car manufacturers take their cars to the Ring to tune them for high performance driving. Certainly you would think a German company would have had the LP560-4 tuned right for the Sportauto run. Yet VoS found two cars unstable and almost not drivable? WTF?

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    evo and Autocar have tested the car at the Isle of Man (very fast roads, no speed limits) and they haven't got any problem with its handling.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Could it be that SportAuto tested the standard (i.e. soft) suspension model?

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Here are the key results:

    NBR: 7.52
    HHR: 1.11,3
    0-200: 11.6s
    200-0: 133.9m
    Speed on Doettinger Hoehe: 288kph
    Weight of test car: 1590kg

    Obviously, the results are rather disappointing. Even more so as Sportauto tried 3 (!) different LP560-4. The first two had serious suspension issues (very instable setup), the last was better (changed suspension setup!). However, the car suffered from a poorly programmed ABS.

    In summary: a total disaster


    430 Scuderia
    Nurburgring Nordschleife in 7:39 mins
    Hockenheim short track in 1:10.3 mins
    0-200 km/h 11.4 s
    Speed on Doettinger Hoehe: 281kph
    kerb weight: 1402 kg


    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    Sportauto may have some credibility problems. Are we to believe they are they only ones that know how to drive and test a car?



    Yes, indeed. Their test results are the most relevant by far. This car seems to be flawed



    This result does put a question mark on SA credibility. And that is/was their major asset.

    Reason will soon dictate that a consensus of at least ten tests by reputable publications replace SA as the ultimate arbiter of performance. Obviously any one test can be skewed for a number of reasons.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    Sportauto may have some credibility problems. Are we to believe they are they only ones that know how to drive and test a car?



    Yes, indeed. Their test results are the most relevant by far. This car seems to be flawed



    This result does put a question mark on SA credibility. And that is/was their major asset.

    Reason will soon dictate that a consensus of at least ten tests by reputable publications replace SA as the ultimate arbiter of performance. Obviously any one test can be skewed for a number of reasons.



    A great writer, poet, philopher and car enthusiast used to say that he always has two watches or more when he wants to be accurate about timekeeping. The same applies for car mags I reckon.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:



    1. Lamborghini should have not released a car that had not been developed fully and thoroughly tested in all areas. It is not a supermini but a supercar and even small details count.











    Correct, I agree. How can Lambo release the LP-560 without implementing a serious development program at the Ring? Are they crazy? This is a Supercar!!

    Also, I must admit, a Longer wheel base provides a very stable platform for power delivery.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Here are some other test results of LP-560 vs 997 Turbo and 997 GT2

    It is prudent to pay more attention to the consensus than to any one mag. If only for the reason that a car may have a problem in one test. Not to mention a host of other variables.

    http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=47d02484a8b12&car2=4585844a79f19

    http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=47d02484a8b12&car2=46a06c22ab41a

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    I agree and have a hard time understanding this. I'd like to add some comments based on SA's test documentation to clarify the lap time:

    a. the newly-introduced bushings on the first and second press car caused, according to v. Saurma, a very instable car during load changes, the third car, equipped with the traditional elastomer bushings, was much more civilized in this regard

    b. for some reason, the ABS system did not perfectly operate with the Pirelli sport tires, obviously lacking appropriate adaption. The somewhat longer brake distances were seen as the main reason for the resulting Nurburgring laptime. According to SA, the car would have even beaten the Superleggera's 7.46 otherwise.

    c. the car's handling must have been more demanding than, as Kreso stated, on the R8 despite similiar suspension geometry.

    Still, I cannot see the complaints I have read above. After all, unlike the Scuderia or GT2, I would not view the LP560-4 as a track tool so, in my personal opinion, the Nurburgring performance is somewhat negligible to me. Unlike the other two, it is not especially aimned at that purpose.



    Two comments on your reasonable points above:

    1. Lamborghini should have not released a car that had not been developed fully and thoroughly tested in all areas. It is not a supermini but a supercar and even small details count.

    2. NBR may be officially a track but really it is the nearest to a demanding road route. So behaviour and performance is significant for any road car too. They even test SUVs there.



    Totally agree with your point 2.

     
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