Crown

Board: Motor Sports Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: [2020] Formula 1


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Gauss:

    If Bottas hadn't been so unlucky he could have challenged Hamilton at the end... with fresher tires and the gap nullified by the safety car...

    Nope as LH had new tyres due to the SC pit stop as well Smiley


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Shaich:

    In life you need more than just talent and brain.. you need also luck. Hamilton has it all, but he was anyway faster than Bottas so why take it away from him that he again delivered? He is already WDC for the 7th time, and unfortunately nothing and nobody can challenge it. Ham is a way better driver than Bot overall, he’s got the same material but has no chance, IMO the potion difference is way to big, 

    +1 nothing more to add


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    MB aced the test when the hybrid era begins, and they took full advantage. Not their fault that the other teams can't figure out the rules for so long. 

    I really don't understand the hate towards them, I mean if they want to hate, how about hating the team they cheered for for not doing a good job decoding the engine formula and sucked for so long?

    As fro the race, man what a mistake by Russell. Might even be worse than Grojean one a few year ago. 

    Did Stroll really don't want Perez to have more success than his son? 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    MB aced the test when the hybrid era begins, and they took full advantage. Not their fault that the other teams can't figure out the rules for so long. 

    I really don't understand the hate towards them, I mean if they want to hate, how about hating the team they cheered for for not doing a good job decoding the engine formula and sucked for so long?

    I think the main reason for the hate towards LH/Mercedes is: the car is not red.

    I would say, probably 80% of F1 fans cheer for Ferrari. I'm a Mercedes/McLaren fan and I don't remember tifosis being mad when Schumacher/Jean Todt were winning championships, 20 years ago.

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Topspeed:
    Whoopsy:

    MB aced the test when the hybrid era begins, and they took full advantage. Not their fault that the other teams can't figure out the rules for so long. 

    I really don't understand the hate towards them, I mean if they want to hate, how about hating the team they cheered for for not doing a good job decoding the engine formula and sucked for so long?

    I think the main reason for the hate towards LH/Mercedes is: the car is not red.

    I would say, probably 80% of F1 fans cheer for Ferrari. I'm a Mercedes/McLaren fan and I don't remember tifosis being mad when Schumacher/Jean Todt were winning championships, 20 years ago.

     

    I think that MB are doing a great job and everybody who brings hate (I think hate is a very hard wrd and I would not use it personally) is only frustrated that thei team cant deliver. Histroy has shown, in every period there was a team that was dominating casue tehy understood how to get the maximum at that time, thats F1. I think MB deserves a lot of respect especailly after they parted with McLaren... nobody but really noboy had seen that coming, including me Smiley. I was sure that Hamilton was doing a big mistke... but there you have it he proved all that they were wrong. Still I would love to see a three team fight, but this will be maybe possible starting from 2022 until then lets hope for some internal fight atleast. I would love to see BOttas a bit more aggresiv live Nico was. Smiley


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Another interesting storyline would be while Mercedes is in agreement for an engine freeze to help out Red Bull for next season, Renault and Ferrari aren't onboard. 

    I can certainly see the reasons why, Ferrari is just being Ferrari, while Renault wanted to move forward new engine rules instead, they probably believe their work on the next set of engines will be quite competitive and wanted a reset to start fresh. 

    Lewis and Toto haven't sign new deals, wonder if they are both waiting on each other. Pretty sure Lewis wanted championship #8 to take sole possession of the record. And get to more than 100 GP wins before he retires. 

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    i think that the whole engine development cap is a mistake.. this is what F1 is about. I understand that there should be a money cap this si OK IMO. This development restrictions create also this situation that the competition wich is behind can do basically almost noting. it kills the sport!

    About Lewis yes I am sure hw will continue.. he need to mark himself and he wants his 8th WDC.. and the chances are very good that he will get it next year


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Man F1 is really screwed soon. Salary cap for drivers.

    I can see Vettel, Hamilton leaving by 2023. Max would be the one getting shafted. Leclerc same thing. 

    But there won't be incentive for Norris, Ocon, Russell and the likes of up and comers anymore. Their earning potential will be capped. 

    While 30 mil is a 'generous' limit, it is not for absolute top tier drivers. 


    --

     

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    interesting when you take machinery out of the equation

    https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Thx Carlos

    an interesting read   kiss


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Man F1 is really screwed soon. Salary cap for drivers.

    I can see Vettel, Hamilton leaving by 2023. Max would be the one getting shafted. Leclerc same thing. 

    But there won't be incentive for Norris, Ocon, Russell and the likes of up and comers anymore. Their earning potential will be capped. 

    While 30 mil is a 'generous' limit, it is not for absolute top tier drivers. 

    The second band of drivers you listed currently earn little or nothing compared to the likes of Hamilton and Vettel. The disparity in earnings has been looming for too long. Smiley


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:

    Man F1 is really screwed soon. Salary cap for drivers.

    I can see Vettel, Hamilton leaving by 2023. Max would be the one getting shafted. Leclerc same thing. 

    But there won't be incentive for Norris, Ocon, Russell and the likes of up and comers anymore. Their earning potential will be capped. 

    While 30 mil is a 'generous' limit, it is not for absolute top tier drivers. 

    I dont agree with you on that... the cap is not really low and evrey racing driver want to end up in F1 as this is the highest achievemnt possible! I do not understand this desion personally about the salary cap as it does not interfear with cars but it is as it is, and F1 drivers earn anyway enough... there are so many addition incomes for them like endorsements and whatever. The next question is, where should they go? who pays more than F1???


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    DJM48:

    Thx Carlos

    an interesting read   kiss

    +1

    very informative Smiley


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    There really shouldn’t be a salary cap when you are risking your life for someone else’s entertainment.


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    And I don’t see team owners and FIA executives capping their salaries any time soon...


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    At this day and age it’s not much of a risk IMO. The safety regulations are so strong that it’s basically more dangerous to cross the street 😬😝. Jokes aside, racing really became very safe since Senna died, sure it’s still dangerous but way way less than it used to be thankfully.  It again a cap for salary is nothing bad, it does exist also in the NBA for example... and still they are making tons of money. I am more worried about the cap for development... that is what makes F1 to F1. If Hamilton makes 40 million a year or 30 million will not change he’s driving abilities wink


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    It’s more philosophical for me. Talent should go to the highest bidder, not be limited by collusive employers.


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    It will still go to the highest bidder, or why do you think that will change. The only thing that will change is that there will be a cap, and this will be still extremely high... so that only three or four teams will be able to afford it. 


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Shaich:
    Whoopsy:

    Man F1 is really screwed soon. Salary cap for drivers.

    I can see Vettel, Hamilton leaving by 2023. Max would be the one getting shafted. Leclerc same thing. 

    But there won't be incentive for Norris, Ocon, Russell and the likes of up and comers anymore. Their earning potential will be capped. 

    While 30 mil is a 'generous' limit, it is not for absolute top tier drivers. 

    I dont agree with you on that... the cap is not really low and evrey racing driver want to end up in F1 as this is the highest achievemnt possible! I do not understand this desion personally about the salary cap as it does not interfear with cars but it is as it is, and F1 drivers earn anyway enough... there are so many addition incomes for them like endorsements and whatever. The next question is, where should they go? who pays more than F1???

    https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/30/how-much-are-f1-drivers-earning-in-2020-and-should-their-fees-be-capped/

    Endorsements and sponsorships are gravy on top, those shouldn't be counted. 

    This site has a rough estimate, but also educated 'guess' on their salary atm.

    Like I said, worse come to worse, Hamilton and Vettel can just retire and be done with it, but a cap will not be fair to the rest of the pack. Max is already on 25 mil, and if he wins a championship or two after Hamilton retires, surely he will be worth comfortably over 30mil a year. But with a 30 mil cap, Red Bull will have their hands tied and can't pay him much more than the 25 mil that Max is currently earning as they would need a competitive 2nd driver, unless of course they can find a young kid from their junior program that only takes a mil a year. Perez at 8 mil a year will be out of the question.

    Ricciardo is already at 20 mil, he is switching team next year, say he keep his pay at 20mil, while Norris will be looking at a new contract starting 2023, the start of the cap. How much more can McLaren afford to give him a pay raise? Especially if Norris matures more and are getting results in the next couple years?

    At Renault, 20 mil off the books for Ricciardo, but majority of that if not more will be taken up by Alonso. Can they afford to re-sign Ocon and stay under 30 mil?

    If the cap happens, I can see the 'star driver', #1 driver in each team to be capped at around 25 mil a year just to leave decent room for a 2nd driver. This would be completely unfair to the incoming drivers, especially Max. He is a great driver, while he hasn't won a championship yet, he still deserves to be paid more simply for his potential.


    --

     

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Ferrari agrees with the salary cap. They are burning about 45-60 million dollars on Vettel every year and he rarely gets points. smiley


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Maybe things got also a bit out of propotion? Don't you think? 25 Mil is a lot of money... Sure its not the 40 Mil that Ham makes at the moment... but even your list shows, at the moment only two temas would have problems keeping their drivers with that cap. IMO its better to cap driver salary to 30 Mil than make cuts on development. I love F1 and in order to keep the nature of this sport you should not cap the development, as this is what makes the sport so fascinating... I also dont understand the Engine dev. regulations.. Tokken BS, just let them develop... I miss many things from tha past, the refueling for example... or the old quali mode run as much as you want! Why limit tyers??? I wish the drivers wouldt have to look after their tyres so much and could just push! I thing now I am fading way from the topic Smiley...  


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Of course 25M is a lot of money. 2.5M is a lot of money. That’s not the point. This rule change benefits the teams at the expense of the drivers. I understand that FIA believes this will help less well capitalized teams compete, but I disagree with the concept of limiting their ability to earn for such a purpose.


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Shaich:

    Maybe things got also a bit out of propotion? Don't you think? 25 Mil is a lot of money... Sure its not the 40 Mil that Ham makes at the moment... but even your list shows, at the moment only two temas would have problems keeping their drivers with that cap. IMO its better to cap driver salary to 30 Mil than make cuts on development. I love F1 and in order to keep the nature of this sport you should not cap the development, as this is what makes the sport so fascinating... I also dont understand the Engine dev. regulations.. Tokken BS, just let them develop... I miss many things from tha past, the refueling for example... or the old quali mode run as much as you want! Why limit tyers??? I wish the drivers wouldt have to look after their tyres so much and could just push! I thing now I am fading way from the topic Smiley...  

     

    I think you are missing the point.

    Hamilton is the standard, and other drivers on the grid are looking up to him as a benchmark. Even Max.

    While Max probably thinks he is just as fast as Hamilton, he is also dreaming of one day getting paid the same. Maybe not 40 mil as he isn't a 6 time coming up 7 time world champion, but 30 mil isn't unrealistic considering his potential. Under the new rule he absolutely cannot get 30 mil and he is almost already at the limit at where teams can pay him. 

    Same can be said of Leclerc, who is also believing that Ferrari can turn things around and fight for a title. 

    These young guns are the future of F1, F1 needs them. Putting a cap on their salary isn't fair to them.

    There are many things wrong with F1, but driver salary isn't close to being at the top of the list. 

    Without refuelling, limiting tire life is an artificial to make cars stop and get the pit crew involved. Token systems is for preventing more well off teams from spending loads more money developing updates. 

    The major thing that's wrong with F1 right now is the rigid regulation. They needed to open the regulation to encourage creativity. Develop an engine formula that can let teams race from a 4 cylinder to a V12, let them have creative aero packages, etc. 

    They wanted to look 'green', hence the hybrid formula, but that doesn't mean they have to be this rigid in the guidelines where when an engine manufacturer didn't nail the solution like Mercedes did, they are screwed. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    mcdelaug:

    There really shouldn’t be a salary cap when you are risking your life for someone else’s entertainment.

    for argument sake, doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers that are "saving someone's life" are way underpaid compared to these "entertainers".   

    (mcdelaug- this is not an argument against you at all, I'm just venting at how little I am making)...  Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster
     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Targa Tim:
    mcdelaug:

    There really shouldn’t be a salary cap when you are risking your life for someone else’s entertainment.

    for argument sake, doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers that are "saving someone's life" are way underpaid compared to these "entertainers".   

    (mcdelaug- this is not an argument against you at all, I'm just venting at how little I am making)...  Smiley

    +1 Smiley


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Whoopsy:
    Shaich:

    Maybe things got also a bit out of propotion? Don't you think? 25 Mil is a lot of money... Sure its not the 40 Mil that Ham makes at the moment... but even your list shows, at the moment only two temas would have problems keeping their drivers with that cap. IMO its better to cap driver salary to 30 Mil than make cuts on development. I love F1 and in order to keep the nature of this sport you should not cap the development, as this is what makes the sport so fascinating... I also dont understand the Engine dev. regulations.. Tokken BS, just let them develop... I miss many things from tha past, the refueling for example... or the old quali mode run as much as you want! Why limit tyers??? I wish the drivers wouldt have to look after their tyres so much and could just push! I thing now I am fading way from the topic Smiley...  

     

    I think you are missing the point.

    Hamilton is the standard, and other drivers on the grid are looking up to him as a benchmark. Even Max.

    While Max probably thinks he is just as fast as Hamilton, he is also dreaming of one day getting paid the same. Maybe not 40 mil as he isn't a 6 time coming up 7 time world champion, but 30 mil isn't unrealistic considering his potential. Under the new rule he absolutely cannot get 30 mil and he is almost already at the limit at where teams can pay him. 

    Same can be said of Leclerc, who is also believing that Ferrari can turn things around and fight for a title. 

    These young guns are the future of F1, F1 needs them. Putting a cap on their salary isn't fair to them.

    There are many things wrong with F1, but driver salary isn't close to being at the top of the list. 

    Without refuelling, limiting tire life is an artificial to make cars stop and get the pit crew involved. Token systems is for preventing more well off teams from spending loads more money developing updates. 

    The major thing that's wrong with F1 right now is the rigid regulation. They needed to open the regulation to encourage creativity. Develop an engine formula that can let teams race from a 4 cylinder to a V12, let them have creative aero packages, etc. 

    They wanted to look 'green', hence the hybrid formula, but that doesn't mean they have to be this rigid in the guidelines where when an engine manufacturer didn't nail the solution like Mercedes did, they are screwed. 

     

     I totaly get your point... but I just dont really agree on that, f.e. RB pays way less than Ferrari or Mercedes.. at any given time it was with Vettel, he started to get paid so much only when he swtiched to Ferrari. Max is IMO at the most he can get from RB, as they never pay more than that, they see him like a 3 time chapion and also pay him that way. The only way he can earn more is if he goes to Ferrari, or Mercedes after Lewis retires (wich I think he will after his 8th title...) To take Lewis salary as a comparison is not fair, as he is out of reach... what he achieved is out of the ordinary... then comes Vettel... I think 25Mil should be the standard for a 1-3. time Champion... any not many will get there.

    On all other things I totaly agree with you... Green and F1 Smiley hypocracy... LET THEM RACE I SAY 


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    Targa Tim:
    mcdelaug:

    There really shouldn’t be a salary cap when you are risking your life for someone else’s entertainment.

    for argument sake, doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers that are "saving someone's life" are way underpaid compared to these "entertainers".   

    (mcdelaug- this is not an argument against you at all, I'm just venting at how little I am making)...  Smiley

    As a physician myself, I appreciate your sentiment!


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    mcdelaug:
    Targa Tim:
    mcdelaug:

    There really shouldn’t be a salary cap when you are risking your life for someone else’s entertainment.

    for argument sake, doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers that are "saving someone's life" are way underpaid compared to these "entertainers".   

    (mcdelaug- this is not an argument against you at all, I'm just venting at how little I am making)...  Smiley

    As a physician myself, I appreciate your sentiment!

     

    Since our government pays for healthcare, they capped the number of appointments for doctors, literally Tim's earning is capped every year by the government. Doesn't matter how many patients he sees. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: [2020] Formula 1

    I understand, for us the market is set by the US government and large insurance companies. They control payment rates for everything we do, and sometimes direct patients to certain providers and venues. On its face it’s a capitalist system, and to an extent that’s true, but it’s not truly a free market. Basically, there is only a token change in payment for quality, efficiency, cost reduction or accuracy in diagnosis.


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    747813 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 8/11/21 2:00 PM
    throt
     
     
     
     
     
    439056 1287
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 7/4/21 12:06 PM
    nberry
    165654 1094
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 8/31/21 9:35 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    65123 379
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 9/15/21 11:21 PM
    Targa Tim
    53655 507
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    46321 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    42801 380
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    11900 29
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    463899 3586
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 6/25/21 2:56 PM
    the-missile
    384518 3506
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 8/12/21 4:57 PM
    Topspeed
    380966 3918
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    346748 3252
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    333981 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    316860 2646
    Porsche 992 GT3 9/16/21 12:32 AM
    Jean
    261299 2968
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 7/20/21 3:10 PM
    Topspeed
    249380 1567
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    167307 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    143123 792
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    117744 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/30/21 4:07 PM
    WhoopsyM
    101204 735
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 7/5/21 4:30 PM
    BjoernB
    91870 1221
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    81936 209
    Lambo Aventador and SV 8/27/21 2:33 PM
    Topspeed
    71134 698
    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
    70999 824
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    50450 596
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 9/14/21 1:11 PM
    BjoernB
    47100 1165
    Others Bugatti Chiron 7/22/21 6:55 PM
    Topspeed
    41858 480
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/24/21 6:30 PM
    Porker
    39647 531
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    38362 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    30363 394
    268 items found, displaying 1 to 30.