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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    It is like mpg. There is the mpg on the sticker which the epa rated then there is how you and I drive. We are talking about the static one.  Of course when I am driving I am also watching my miles per kw, less at very high speeds and more when in town.  It is all about time and distance.  And no, idle fees are not time based charging. It is time based sitting around. You not charging at all when idle fees are charged.  Every single charger should know when the charge is done and be able to do this when just plugged in and finished. There is no need for a network or anything. 
    Anyway thank you for the complete information. I don’t think there is any third party charger for my car which will do better than the 60amps - 48 amps used. 
    Battery math is complicated. Don’t see how governments can mandate shit into existence- lol. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Time based billing works the same as idle fee as that deters people from just living their car plugged in and taking up a spot.

    Current max for just about any EV's on the market right now is 48A, 11.5kW. There must have been a warehouse sale of 48A chargers. 

    The only cars I can know that can have higher charge rate would be Taycan/Audi e-Tron GT, Audi e-Tron, and Ford Lightning. 

    Since 2021, the e-Tron can be ordered with a dual 11kW chargers onboard to be able to charge at 22kW. But it would seems that dual charger option requires 3 phase AC input. Think it also requires the full CCS plug instead of just the J connector.

    Audi also advertise the 22kW option for the Audi e-Tron GT. That however could be wrong, as the Porsche listed their optional AC charger at 19.2kW, which is 80A at 240V, and still uses the J connector only. That part is unicorn however, I didn't order it when I spec my car as I didn't think I was going to find a 80A home charger. When I inquire about retrofitting, it would seems the charger has no ETA. 

    Ford Lightning paired with the Charger Pro will deliver full 19.2kW to the car, but that charger uses the full CCS plug. 

    Lucid Air is supposed to come with 19.2kW onboard, but don't think anyone can verify that yet.

    There was 'some' Tesla Model S and Model X that was shipped with dual onboard chargers, they could have gone all the way up to 64A 15.4kW. But looks like those are unicorns and Tesla is back to shipping only 48A chargers to match their Wall Chargers.


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Something more about 'miles per hour' charging. It would seems Tesla based theirs solely on the EPA number, it doesn't change based on real world driving condition or experiences, in another words, it is basically useless unless someone drives exactly like the robot doing the EPA testing. 

    On another news, I was talking to a Porsche club buddy today, he works at a Ford dealership. He mentioned he just had a Mustang Mach E arrived but the order got canceled. My impulse buying strikes again. Probably gonna go pick it up some time next week. 

    Can't resist a black car. Don't know what I am gonna use it for however. But I was really impressed with the build quality, material usage on it and the styling when I saw one last week during charging.

    IMG_0889.JPG

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    You can’t stop coming up with nonsense reasons for why you don’t like miles per hour. Do you not see that there are two  metrics which work together?  One is a static number based on EPA ratings for when you don’t yet know where you are going or how fast.  This is like your miles per gallon number given by the EPA. Familiar? Then there is range based on where you are actually navigating to. For this Tesla takes into account not only terrain but also temperatures and wind direction. Highly accurate and just refreshed via over the air update. 
    Obviously the miles per hour stat also takes into account the cars economy such as battery and motor efficiency. Something you wish to avoid at all costs. I get that.  No matter how much you try some will realize this is all about time and distance. Not to mention performance. Clearly areas which 800 volts can’t overcome but we are amused by the word salad. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:

    Something more about 'miles per hour' charging. It would seems Tesla based theirs solely on the EPA number, it doesn't change based on real world driving condition or experiences, in another words, it is basically useless unless someone drives exactly like the robot doing the EPA testing. 

    On another news, I was talking to a Porsche club buddy today, he works at a Ford dealership. He mentioned he just had a Mustang Mach E arrived but the order got canceled. My impulse buying strikes again. Probably gonna go pick it up some time next week. 

    Can't resist a black car. Don't know what I am gonna use it for however. But I was really impressed with the build quality, material usage on it and the styling when I saw one last week during charging.

    IMG_0889.JPG

     

     

    At this rate you are going to own every EV model... except a Tesla Smiley


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    At first glance I thought it was a BMW....


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Wouldn't it be easier just to take the car for a demo drive and be done with it ? smiley


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    You can’t stop coming up with nonsense reasons for why you don’t like miles per hour. Do you not see that there are two  metrics which work together?  One is a static number based on EPA ratings for when you don’t yet know where you are going or how fast.  This is like your miles per gallon number given by the EPA. Familiar? Then there is range based on where you are actually navigating to. For this Tesla takes into account not only terrain but also temperatures and wind direction. Highly accurate and just refreshed via over the air update. 
    Obviously the miles per hour stat also takes into account the cars economy such as battery and motor efficiency. Something you wish to avoid at all costs. I get that.  No matter how much you try some will realize this is all about time and distance. Not to mention performance. Clearly areas which 800 volts can’t overcome but we are amused by the word salad. 

     

    You would think Tesla will do the calculation based on real world conditions right? It's only logical. But no they don't, they solely based that displayed miles per hour charge off their EPA number. 

    It's been reported many times, quite a few Youtube videos also confirmed that. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Carlos from Spain:
    Whoopsy:

    Something more about 'miles per hour' charging. It would seems Tesla based theirs solely on the EPA number, it doesn't change based on real world driving condition or experiences, in another words, it is basically useless unless someone drives exactly like the robot doing the EPA testing. 

    On another news, I was talking to a Porsche club buddy today, he works at a Ford dealership. He mentioned he just had a Mustang Mach E arrived but the order got canceled. My impulse buying strikes again. Probably gonna go pick it up some time next week. 

    Can't resist a black car. Don't know what I am gonna use it for however. But I was really impressed with the build quality, material usage on it and the styling when I saw one last week during charging.

    IMG_0889.JPG

     

     

    At this rate you are going to own every EV model... except a Tesla Smiley

     

    I drove a Model 3 before. Smiley I know wha that car is like. That's why I am not buying one.

    But never say never, eventually they might put out a product good enough that I wanted and willing to pay them money for. They seriously need to improve the interior and also the driver car experience however before getting consideration, also material usage and build quality. 

    I also never expected I would 'want' a Hyundai ever. But their IONIQ 5 is a seriously good EV, and I actually wanted one but I just can't get my hands on one. IONIQ 5 is THE BEST EV right now on the market.


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Gnil:

    Wouldn't it be easier just to take the car for a demo drive and be done with it ? smiley

     

    Haha. I had placed an order for a Ford Lightning with the same dealer, so I am paying them eventually, I just use that money to get a Mach E in between. With out tax system, I will have beneficial tax credits when I trade it in as the Lightning is in a higher tax bracket. I am not going to lose much in the current car market on the Mach E as there aren't any supply. Here in Vancouver, literally the only EV one can walk into a dealer and come out with a car is the Chevy Bolt and Tesla. Everything else on like a 2 year wait list. Elon is still flooding our city with transports after transports of cars, used to be like one a week, now it's like at least 2 transports a week. 

    CAD$2.30 a litre of fuel. Inching ever closer to European prices. That will change the public's car buying habit quickly.


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    You can’t stop coming up with nonsense reasons for why you don’t like miles per hour. Do you not see that there are two  metrics which work together?  One is a static number based on EPA ratings for when you don’t yet know where you are going or how fast.  This is like your miles per gallon number given by the EPA. Familiar? Then there is range based on where you are actually navigating to. For this Tesla takes into account not only terrain but also temperatures and wind direction. Highly accurate and just refreshed via over the air update. 
    Obviously the miles per hour stat also takes into account the cars economy such as battery and motor efficiency. Something you wish to avoid at all costs. I get that.  No matter how much you try some will realize this is all about time and distance. Not to mention performance. Clearly areas which 800 volts can’t overcome but we are amused by the word salad. 

     

    You would think Tesla will do the calculation based on real world conditions right? It's only logical. But no they don't, they solely based that displayed miles per hour charge off their EPA number. 

    It's been reported many times, quite a few Youtube videos also confirmed that. 

    The navigation miles - when you put in a destination- takes everything I mentioned into account. Terrain and even wind speed. Of course when just charging without a destination the standard epa number is used just like with gas cars because there is. I destination. Hello. . Both have a valid place.  Time and distance as accurate as possible with or without a destination. Again - we all understand your reluctance. Miles per hour exposes poor motor and battery efficiency. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I can confirm as I am at US/ CANADA border many times a week, that there is a truck or two every day with Teslas coming into the Vancouver area. I think we have the highest precentage of EV cars in NA, could be wrong though.

    AJ


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    We do, last figure was 17% of all new car sales are EV. Should be touching 20% soon.

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    You can’t stop coming up with nonsense reasons for why you don’t like miles per hour. Do you not see that there are two  metrics which work together?  One is a static number based on EPA ratings for when you don’t yet know where you are going or how fast.  This is like your miles per gallon number given by the EPA. Familiar? Then there is range based on where you are actually navigating to. For this Tesla takes into account not only terrain but also temperatures and wind direction. Highly accurate and just refreshed via over the air update. 
    Obviously the miles per hour stat also takes into account the cars economy such as battery and motor efficiency. Something you wish to avoid at all costs. I get that.  No matter how much you try some will realize this is all about time and distance. Not to mention performance. Clearly areas which 800 volts can’t overcome but we are amused by the word salad. 

     

    You would think Tesla will do the calculation based on real world conditions right? It's only logical. But no they don't, they solely based that displayed miles per hour charge off their EPA number. 

    It's been reported many times, quite a few Youtube videos also confirmed that. 

    The navigation miles - when you put in a destination- takes everything I mentioned into account. Terrain and even wind speed. Of course when just charging without a destination the standard epa number is used just like with gas cars because there is. I destination. Hello. . Both have a valid place.  Time and distance as accurate as possible with or without a destination. Again - we all understand your reluctance. Miles per hour exposes poor motor and battery efficiency. 

     

    Every car does that, nothing new.

    The charging miles however do not reflect real world conditions. It is solely based on the theoretical EPA number. If someone is doing a mountain pass, whatever number spits out is irrelevant for miles per hours charged. Or if it's a cold raining night where maximum battery draw is happening. 

    Modern EV cars are so good, battery size and efficiency makes no difference anymore, they all can do at least 400km in one go, so what if one EV uses more kWh to go a certain distance but it can be charged up much faster? And no current EV can do a typical road trip in one go, all have to stop at least once if not twice, neutralizing efficiency advantage. Charging speed advantage is huge, the 2 stops could be faster than a single stop.  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Mike buddy!

    Got some new information I just discovered about why chargers are doing per minute instead of per kW billing.

    It would seems some of the states banned charging by kW as that is considered reselling electricity and is not allowed.

    Your nice very functional Congress at work.

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    1657682983432IMG_0922.JPG
    1657682983441IMG_0924.JPG

    Pick up day!

    After just about 23 years, I have another Ford. 

    Dealership is a couple cities over, 30km away, but it's like an hour's drive inside greater Vancouver region. 

    First impressions. 2 cars comes to mind as comparison, my old Audi e-Tron and a Model Y.

    Every single touch surface feels nice, premium. Doesn't matter if it's just plastic made to look and feel like something else. It feels nice! At least on par, if not better than inside a VW. Definitely better than a Honda or a Toyota. Night and day better than any Tesla for sure. Fit and finish is perfect, I don't see any defects or miss matched panels whatsoever. 

    Now quite fair to compare it to my Taycan Cross Turismo as the Taycan is more than double the price, heck even the e-Tron was an extra 25% more. But it's centre screen definitely beats the Taycan's 3 screen layout, or even e-Tron's dual screen. It's bright and clear. Tesla's have similar sized screens, but this one provides more information on one single page, so much more useful. Plus, it has a volume knob at the bottom!

    The giant volume knob. So nice to see such a thing. Even when it feels cheap, plasticky, which it is plastic. Still miles better than any touch control volume knob. 

    Cabin feels very roomy, reminds me of the e-Tron. Think about the same size too, front and back. Trunk space feels a tad smaller than the e-Tron, not much, but still smaller, but bigger than a Model Y's.

    Seat feels nice. Not as good as the Germans, but definitely better than the Model 3 seats. It has, how do I put it, American seat feel to them.

    Spent a great deal of time with the delivery girl on setting up the car, setting up the phone app, pairing the phone as a key and whatever settings there are. It's a nice novelty to use the phone as a key, first time for me, even when I think Tesla's been doing it for a while. 

    Doors. Door handles. Unconventional on how to open it. At least to me for the first time or any other adults. But when I got home, my gf and her son is in the driveway. her 8 yr old had no problem figuring it out on his very first try. He walked up to the rear door, see the little button, pushed, door pops open and he grabbed it and swing open in one swift motion. Guess Ford's 'market research' was right all along, they claimed it's what kids do to open car doors, they don't use handles.  

    Exterior styling. When I got home, my gf said it is a nice looking car! She had ever seen Youtube videos and pictures of it, not the real thing. She mentioned the styling of the Mach e fits me, whatever that means. 

    The ride. Definitely a minus to the car. It's body control is very un-refined. Not as bad as a Tesla, but close. Over speed bumps, the suspension definitely cannot control the body, unlike say any German cars. Or Japanese for that matters. And it's not even softly sprung. The kindest words I can use would be "American Sporty'. Very different than normal sporty or European sporty feel. The Polestar 2 rides stiffer but has more body control over bumps. There is still much to learn by American car makers for proper suspension tuning. Makes it stiff doesn't make it a good suspension. It's all about controlling the oscillations AFTER the bump, which is all about shocks tuning, something Americans seems can't get a hold of. In the Taycan or even the e-Tron, or the Polestar, it's ONE bump, from the speed bump, and then nothing. One and done. 

    Power. Ah. Something it's definitely lacking as compared to Tesla. It's lacking, or shall I say it is adequate. Like how e-Tron's power is adequate. 350hp in this car vs 400hp in the e-Tron. Nothing to be proud of but it's enough to keep up with traffic. I only bought the Mach e Premium AWD, and of course the GT Performance model will have much more hp, but then again I am not buying this car to do stop light drag racing. The car is horribly under tire-ed anyways, 225s, so 350hp is fine.

    Technology............it has SiriusXM, Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, FM and FM HD also AM. very good enough. it's rare to see AM tuners anymore. The car come standard with BlueCruise, Ford's version of Autopilot or something. The delivery girl was gonna help me set it up but I stopped her, told her I don't even want to know about it, I will never use it, and can I give it back to Ford for some refund. That last part was a fail, they won't take it back. So now I am stuck with a useless function that cost me extra weight in the car. And money. Net time on the list, Lane Keep Assist. I had 3 questions, is it on? How do I turn it off? Does it stay off forever? Yes, there, and Yes.

    Only 'driver aid' I kept on was automatic braking, as that will net me insurance savings if it is turned on. 

    I can drive. Properly. I don't need no freaking computer to help. All those functions are for people that can't drive and con their way to a driver's license. Call me old school. Don't care.

    Driving. Well 'one pedal driving'. This car has such a mode. It uses regen for the first part, then it cuts off and engages the friction brake for the very last bit. Initial reviews last year says there is a dead spot on the switchover, where the car is freewheeling and not slowing down. With all the updates, my car doesn't have that. But the application of the friction brakes at the end of the slowing down period is still too 'sudden', that's the word I would use. Jarring would be another word. I could also called it panic braking, as if the car realize it's gonna crash without regen braking and thus it nailed the brake pedal for me. Don't have a g-meter handy so can't say how many Gs it is slowing down with regen. It felt STRONGER than what I experienced in a Tesla however. Brake pedal braking however is a blended one, it uses regen first, then blends in friction brakes for the last bit. It's definitely not as good at blending as Audi or Porsche. I can feel the change over, in the VAG cars the crossover is undetectable. I would;t call it great feeling pedal, or even good. Good enough would be the word I'd used. Teslas definitely has better feeling brakes, but then again the Tesla pedal is pure mechanical without blending, until the very end when the ecu tries to add back the regen bit, without much effect. 

    Range. I am literally still on the very first tank of electrons, but using today's data, it works out to be 17.5kW/100km. a good 4kW better than my Taycan CT, which in turn is about 10% better than my old Taycan sedan and almost 8kW better than the e-Tron. When I first started the car up at the dealer lot, it's showing 450+km range at 1005 charge, good enough, very very good enough. Especially for a city car.

    What else is there........

    Comparison to the e-Tron. The e-Tron cost 25% more, but it isn't 25% better. The Mach e works out to be better per dollar. I don't feel like I am giving up anything jumping from an e-Tron to the Mach e. Maybe the Audi badge vs the Ford badge. So extra metal looking plastic, or actually are metal, trims inside. I think The Ford doesn't uses real leather, while the Audi does, but it has stitching, and the leather or fake leather inside feels real enough. I am however missing the passenger charge port on the Mach e. It is actually very useful to have it on both side for charging flexibility. 

    Comparison to Model Y. Now WHY would anyone buy the Tesla over this for the same price is beyond me. Outside of more power, and fart sound, nothing on the Tesla is better than a Mach e. Fanboys would harp about Autopilot or FSD on the Tesla. Cool dude, useless function. And how much again I am paying for a non-functional beta again? Charging network......where I live, with so many Teslas being sold, I have better luck finding a empty CCS charger than finding a empty Tesla charger, advantage of a better charging network instantly neutralized. Don't have actually data, but from all the Youtube videos, a Mach e charges just as fast as a Tesla, a Tesla have a higher peak but the Mach e can sustain better, no advantage there. Home charging will be a moot point too, a charge overnight will finish up either car, or any EV for that matters. 

    Comparison to Hyundai Ioniq 5/KIA EV6/Genesis GV whatever.  The Hyundai trio is night and day better than anything else on the road. a Taycan turbo S is much faster, but the price is also much higher. Teslas have longer range but for most people doing road trips, extra range is moot point as the Hyundai trios can charge much much faster. Their prices also under cut Tesla and the Ford, at least for the Ioniq 5/EV6 cousins. Fit and finish are on par with the Ford, I think the material usage is better with the Koreans. Tech are about the same as the Ford, Interior space is also the same, roughly, but the Koreans have a smaller foot print on the ground vs the Ford. Mach e has a marginally bigger trunk. The Koreans also rides and drives a tad better. Bad thing is, no one can get one of those Korean cars. I am still trying to secure a Ioniq 5 without success. 

    Guess that's the long/short of it for the time being.

     

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Lol.  If I had said anything positive about my car after 40 k miles of ownership I would be accused of being an uninformed fan boy. Of course in one afternoon, never having owned a Tesla, you find the Mustang superior in just about every regard - except for those you don’t care about.  Speed, range, safety and resale value and anything Tesla. 
    Nice write up though. Good use of words. Maybe a bit bias against Tesla. Ya think. Rotflmao. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Nice review Nick, specially the comparison with other EVs, thanks. I've actually seen a couple on the road here already.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    Lol.  If I had said anything positive about my car after 40 k miles of ownership I would be accused of being an uninformed fan boy. Of course in one afternoon, never having owned a Tesla, you find the Mustang superior in just about every regard - except for those you don’t care about.  Speed, range, safety and resale value and anything Tesla. 
    Nice write up though. Good use of words. Maybe a bit bias against Tesla. Ya think. Rotflmao. 

    The things is, there is no absolute right or wrong, you both can be right depending on what your personal preferences are, no need to discredit his personal experience and opinion just because it doesn't favor Teslas, there can be other views and if anything, he has more experience with EVs than anybody else in this forum to be able to actually compare them.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    All true. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    Lol.  If I had said anything positive about my car after 40 k miles of ownership I would be accused of being an uninformed fan boy. Of course in one afternoon, never having owned a Tesla, you find the Mustang superior in just about every regard - except for those you don’t care about.  Speed, range, safety and resale value and anything Tesla. 
    Nice write up though. Good use of words. Maybe a bit bias against Tesla. Ya think. Rotflmao. 

     

    And I said the Hyundai trio beats them all. So, am I biased for the Mustang just because I have bought one?

    Also, resale value of ANY car is great right now with car shortage, even my Mach e. I can flip it right now immediately for a profit, but I am not doing that.

    Face it, Tesla WAS the standard for EV, there is no question about it. It blow the previous mainstream EV, the Leaf, clean out of the water. double/triple the range? Faster. Roomier. Higher tech even. 

    All incoming EVs are qualified against a Tesla. But a Tesla isn't the perfect EV, nor a perfect car. There is no such a thing. Every car is a compromise of some sort, the buyer decide what they can live without. 

    All modern EVs can do at least 400km, so Tesla's range advantage is a moot point, Elon said just as much when asked about Lucid's extra range over his cars. 

    The Hyundai trio can do fast charging, like 5-80% in 18 mins. A comparable Tesla needed over 30 mins. That's a great advantage when doing road trips. Just about all modern EVs can do that quicker than a Tesla now btw. Tesla may advertise their great 250kW power, but others can sustain a higher throughput over a period, which is what matters.

    The highly 'advanced' Autopilot and FSD. Is everyone looking for such a feature? Not everyone, some do, and those will lean more towards a Tesla purchase. Others will just consider it fluff.

    But a car is much more than those. Some people look for styling, some look for quality, some going for luxury, others for seat comfort and more still value handling more. Price is also a factor. Each buyer have a different priority and will come to their own conclusion on what their own needs are, and this is the beauty of competition. Not everyone is forced to buy one single brand. 

    There aren't many 'big' roomy EV SUV right, e-Tron is one, Jaguar I-Pace is another, also the Model Y, Model X. The Mach e undercut the pricing of the Audi and Jaguar, and also the Model X. Model Y is a comparable competitor, so it's up to the buyer to decide what they value the most on their purchase, it's an additional choice for people looking for such a car. It's not even a month when I turn in the e-Tron after my lease, I thought I don't quite needed an SUV, thinking the Taycan CT can take it's place. I was wrong. I needed the room at times. I could have gone for a Model Y, but I just can't stand the cheap interior, I can forgive the odd exterior styling as I don't see it much, but I have to look at the interior even time I am in the car. As a stuff mover, I don't need 'fast', adequate power is enough. Handling also take a back stage as a stuff mover.  As it happens, a Mach e fell on my lap and I grabbed it. 

    Why not a normal SUV instead of an EV SUV? HOV lane sticker. Great help when in traffic. That sticker alone prioritized over anything else. 

    I am not a convert to EV, I will still buy normal cars. Or hybrids for that matters. 

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Hyundai is doing well. 
    I am just amused at times at the lengths you seem to need to go through to nail what you perceive to be Tesla weaknesses. As Carlos points out so well - these are weaknesses you perceive and others may not. Same with your preferences in terms of interior trim or dislikes like driving aids. Some may prefer many of these things you don’t like. Some would even pay more.  If I were to be as positive about my 40k miles of driving my Tesla as you are after a few days with the Mustang you know what would happen. That said you have certainly gone and had a very good view of all of them which I obviously have not.  But I do know enough to warn those thinking about an EV to not base their judgement just on your opinion of Tesla or the Mustang for that matter.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    As I have pointed out many times, it's about buyers' preferences for features. Everyone has their own value standard. My first impressions of the Mach e isn't a glowing one either, it's just, observations. 

    This is the beauty of free market with competitions, people can choose whatever they want, they aren't force to buy one particular car. it was before, when Teslas are the only game in town, if one wants a nice EV, they had to buy a Tesla, doesn't matter if one is middle class or super rich, if they want an EV, it's just Tesla. Now someone can pick from Hyundai or Ford for the low end, and Mercedes and Porsches on the upper end, so many choices now, and there aren't bad choices, every single offering is a competent product. 

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Most are ICE cars with batteries and electric motors. If not for Tesla most of them would not exist. It is still a flip phone to iphone comparison from what I am able to discern so far.  But I welcome your opinion. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    https://www.motor1.com/news/597948/audi-porsche-bentley-evs-delayed/

    The link above is certainly no surprise to me after living with my 2020 Taycan Turbo.  The software/telematics are really poorly done compared to the 992 GT3 Touring I just received.

    I wonder if German car companies rely way too much on outside vendors for their hardware/software systems.  They seem like the hardware is insufficient to support the software that "mission creep" may have caused.  Buggy and infuriatingly (really intolerably) slow.


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    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:

    Most are ICE cars with batteries and electric motors. If not for Tesla most of them would not exist. It is still a flip phone to iphone comparison from what I am able to discern so far.  But I welcome your opinion. 

     

    Btw Samsung and others are going back to the flip phone in case you haven't noticed. My son is using one right now, he loved it much more than his iPhone 13Pro. Smiley

    Hmm, Tesla is Motorola, not Apple. Like cell phones, the market was ALL Motorolas, quasi monopoly, until competition arrived. At first Moto still have the edge, people still buy them over others. But over time the competition got better while Moto stayed relatively flat. That's the end of Moto. Almost like right now, Tesla had the quasi monopoly, everyone else can't quite match them in the beginning, but they more or less caught up and passes Tesla now, Tesla still has a chance to stay in front if they up their game, but seems like they have been dragging their feet, refusing to acknowledge where the future goes. 

    EV's Apple hasn't appeared yet. To call Tesla as EV's iPhone is an embarrassment to Apple. What is iPhone known for? Premium material and premium quality, and premium user experience, none of which Tesla possesses. 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    W8MM:

    https://www.motor1.com/news/597948/audi-porsche-bentley-evs-delayed/

    The link above is certainly no surprise to me after living with my 2020 Taycan Turbo.  The software/telematics are really poorly done compared to the 992 GT3 Touring I just received.

    I wonder if German car companies rely way too much on outside vendors for their hardware/software systems.  They seem like the hardware is insufficient to support the software that "mission creep" may have caused.  Buggy and infuriatingly (really intolerably) slow.


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    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T

     

    More like they tried to copy Tesla's formula and rely too much on software doing all the things. Software in Tesla aren't perfect, far from it, and they have a boat load of programmers working full time doing nothing but programming cars, yet they still don't work. VAG has no chance.

    Maybe they should go back to the simple things, they don't have to reinvent the wheel, why write a ton of code to control a window or a mirror or an air vent when a simple switch will do? They are creating a solution to a problem no one even asked for. Like why do I have to go 10 layer deep into the menu to do simple things when a small physical switch can do the job 10 times better? 


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Teslas work just fine. You just don’t understand how they work.  You still think the touch screen is what people use and that there are complicated menus.  Maybe read what Mike wrote about Porsche. It was not about Tesla. 
    You would buy a flip phone to prove some Tesla point. 
    You are pretty much down to charging speeds and fit and finish. You have passed on safety, speed, self driving, over the air updates. Anything the competition can’t match is not important to you.  Hilariously actual efficiency does not matter to you at all. 
    This mental masturbation is getting old.  I’m done folks. Enjoy your forum and the four or five posters remaining. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Hmm what about safety? I purposely did not mention that as it would make Tesla especially bad. No other car have ever crashed into emergency vehicles while on cruise control. And all pretty much earned top marks from crash tests.

    Speed was mentioned before, the other cars have adequate power, and if someone wants the extra speed they could consider a Tesla, or a turbo S.

    Why is OTA important? If something is properly designed, tested, there is no need to update.

    Actual efficiency of course isn't important anymore, all can do a min of 400km, do people buy normal cars only based on 'efficiency'? Then everyone would have been driving a Smart car, or whatever is most fuel efficient. Electricity is extra cheap, and as you like to point out, EVs can be charged at home, and full again the next morning, who drives more than 400km every day? And What if a Tesla cost 12 cents less to charge at home? Do people even care about saving that extra 12 cents?

     

     


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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Why?  https://youtu.be/uNdg3pTEIjY This campaign makes little sense. 


     
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