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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    RC:

    Tesla puts together a stripped out tuned track mule with semi slicks to beat a regular production sport sedan with street tires, and the headlines just say the Model S beat the Taycan. Heck there isn't even a real lap time and already all the headlines talk about the seconds difference. Tesla 1, Porsche 0 in fake news social media...

    Oh, here comes the classic Carlos exaggerations that we have seen for a while now.

     Actually, Carlos has a good point here because this is how it is going to be...very likely.

     

    And who knows, Tesla will maybe launch an even faster car in a year than the production mule they play around with right now...

     

     

     

    I see you believe everything the supreme leader tweets, suuuure, the production version will be even faster than a stripped out, track tuned shell with semi slicks, and you say I exaggerate??

    I just hope the 919's NRB record isn't in danger now...

    Seriously, all I see is lots of maybes and wishful thinking... unfortunately, reality had a bad habit of getting in the way eventually


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    The story so far:

    • Tesla sent one or more S model test cars to NBR in response to Porsche's record run for a 5 seat EV car.
    • The Tesla test car that was used for challenging the record run,  reportedly (as per the German Auto Motor & Sport magazine) beat Taycan's 7:42 time by 20 secs.
    • The model S that was used had the Plaid spec and 3 motors drivetrain and some other aero and rubber improvements. No one can go to a Tesla showroom and order an identical car.
    • Tesla haven't officially revealed a laptime.
    • Musk tweeted that: the car on NBR had 7 seats (implying that it was not stripped) and that the upcoming production model S in a year's time will include modifications and it will improve on the test car's (unknown) laptime.

    This is what is known so far.

     

     

     

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Wow .... Porsche did the record with Turbo ... not with Turbo S ..... very interesting : Turbo instead of Turbo S

    .. but why? .. maybe theory 2 is correct :  Turbo faster than Turbo S 

     

    most likely: Porsche plays chess with Tesla Smiley


    --

     

    -----------------------------------

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    ....or the Turbo S might run out of power earlier compared to the Turbo and not last this 20 km lap on maximum push


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Sidney:

    Wow .... Porsche did the record with Turbo ... not with Turbo S ..... very interesting : Turbo instead of Turbo S

    .. but why? .. maybe theory 2 is correct :  Turbo faster than Turbo S 

     

    most likely: Porsche plays chess with Tesla Smiley

    I have a third theory...

    Porsche playing chess with themselves  Smiley
    Taycan can probably run faster on the ring than 7:42, but Porsche will not want the Taycan to beat Panamera Turbo S (7:38) nor be too close to 992 Turbo/Turbo S times when they are revealed. Just imagine a 992 Turbo S having a similar ring time as their 4-door EV? Smiley

    They are to some extent "handicapped" by their ICE cars and don't want to lower sales on their money making machines (which Taycan clearly isn't at this point). They probably didn't expect Tesla to be on the ring with that Plaid car this soon either.


    This is really entertaining and I must say that I love it. Competition is good for everyone! Bring it on Smiley 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:


    This is really entertaining and I must say that I love it. Competition is good for everyone! Bring it on Smiley 

    Smiley I knew we would agree on something! Smiley Smiley 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:
    lukestern:


    This is really entertaining and I must say that I love it. Competition is good for everyone! Bring it on Smiley 

    Smiley I knew we would agree on something! Smiley Smiley 

    SmileySmiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    RC:

    Tesla puts together a stripped out tuned track mule with semi slicks to beat a regular production sport sedan with street tires, and the headlines just say the Model S beat the Taycan. Heck there isn't even a real lap time and already all the headlines talk about the seconds difference. Tesla 1, Porsche 0 in fake news social media...

    Oh, here comes the classic Carlos exaggerations that we have seen for a while now.

     Actually, Carlos has a good point here because this is how it is going to be...very likely.

    And who knows, Tesla will maybe launch an even faster car in a year than the production mule they play around with right now...

    Let‘s say: you are the only person here who believes in „scenarios“ like this. The rest thinks that Tesla is bullshitting the public one more time. As they did in the past. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    Tesla puts together a stripped out tuned track mule with semi slicks to beat a regular production sport sedan with street tires, and the headlines just say the Model S beat the Taycan. Heck there isn't even a real lap time and already all the headlines talk about the seconds difference. Tesla 1, Porsche 0 in fake news social media...

    Oh, here comes the classic Carlos exaggerations that we have seen for a while now.

     Actually, Carlos has a good point here because this is how it is going to be...very likely.

    And who knows, Tesla will maybe launch an even faster car in a year than the production mule they play around with right now...

    Let‘s say: you are the only person here who believes in „scenarios“ like this. The rest thinks that Tesla is bullshitting the public one more time. As they did in the past. 


    I wrote "And who knows" + "maybe". That's called elaborating, but maybe in a black and white world it is hard to grasp the meaning of those words.

    I absolutely believe there is a possibility that Tesla can pull off a production Model S end of next year that beat the Taycan Turbo S on all measurable performance metrics. I honestly also think there are more than a bunch of others in here who believe  this as well even though they keep silent. Time will tell Smiley

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    MKSGR:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    Tesla puts together a stripped out tuned track mule with semi slicks to beat a regular production sport sedan with street tires, and the headlines just say the Model S beat the Taycan. Heck there isn't even a real lap time and already all the headlines talk about the seconds difference. Tesla 1, Porsche 0 in fake news social media...

    Oh, here comes the classic Carlos exaggerations that we have seen for a while now.

     Actually, Carlos has a good point here because this is how it is going to be...very likely.

    And who knows, Tesla will maybe launch an even faster car in a year than the production mule they play around with right now...

    Let‘s say: you are the only person here who believes in „scenarios“ like this. The rest thinks that Tesla is bullshitting the public one more time. As they did in the past. 


    I wrote "And who knows" + "maybe". That's called elaborating, but maybe in a black and white world it is hard to grasp the meaning of those words.

    I absolutely believe there is a possibility that Tesla can pull off a production Model S end of next year that beat the Taycan Turbo S on all measurable performance metrics. I honestly also think there are more than a bunch of others in here who believe  this as well even though they keep silent. Time will tell Smiley

     

    Time will tell Smiley But if we had not you we would not have a post about this possibility Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    Nick, had Porsche indicated early in the development of the Taycan that the market segment they were targeting was substantially over $100,000 (not give a price) how many deposits do you think they would have received? FWIW, I'm not the only one who thought they were targeting the Tesla segment and Porsche never indicated otherwise. Classic bait and switch.cool

     

    They never said any words one which part of the EV segment they are targeting to begin with.

    They just said they are going into on the EV segment period. And they said the car will be a Porsche, with Porsche DNA.

    Porsches were never a bargain to begin with, for that people flock to the Corvettes and Vipers anyways. 

    It was the American internet people and journalists that put words in Porsche mouth that they are targeting the Tesla segment. They all assumed a Tesla is considered a 'performance' car, which washer first mistake, and then think since Porsche is also doing a 4 door EV sedan, it has to be a direct Model S competitor, that's the 2nd mistake. 

    A performance car means it has all-around attributes, not just a one dimensional drag racing machine, and Porsches were never one dimensional machines, they are always all-arounders. 

    For the rest of the world that don't rely on American press, there was never any doubt about the Taycan not being a Model S competitor.

    Nick, you missed my point. Porsche went along with the various predictions about cost knowing that they had plan to charge substantially more. They collected the deposits with dirty hands  because they were well aware that the saps were place a deposit on a car they had been led to believe was competing against Tesla and it’s price point.Smiley

    cGX car point you would do much better by being less pedantically showing off you education and saying what you mean in simple clear language.  You have much to offer but your communication skills need “work “.

     


    --

     

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.

     

     

    Nick, you misunderstood one thing. Porsche doesn't collect the deposits, they don't get paid until the dealers pay for the car. Those deposit money doesn't get to them until the finished car is billed to the dealer. 

    The deposits collected were for the dealers. They are the one taking in the money and park them at a bank collecting interest payments. If you want to use the word dirty hands, it's the dealers, which is no surprise, as they will do/say anything to get money. As a matter of fact, dealers got the notice for how much the car will cost late May, early June. I saw the actual PDF, specs and everything else. It was a NDA item though. I posted about the Taycan pricing will be slightly less than a equivalent Panamera I believe just before summer. 

    Porsche people are awkward people to say the least, they planed something and they will stick to their plans, and it's almost like they don't even read social media as they never react to those. They are like.........shall I say mindless robots. 

    They planned the car, announced the car and done. They are oblivious to whatever is said or mentioned. They never commented on whether the American journalists are right or wrong as to if the Taycan is a competitor to the Model S as they don't think they need to. 

    At the end of the day, Porsche had planned all along to have the Taycan sits at the top of the EV segment food chain, dealers knows that too, they can't disclose much peer NDA but they could have still skirt around it like I did but they didn't because of their greed. Dealers, not Porsche, is the one to blame if you want to blame the Porsche side and not the journalists side. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    How can he even claim it's a 7 seater, when it's completely stripped with a rollcage.


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Nick, I know the dealers get it. But you're right about Porsche. Often the stick their head in the sand and shout forward. They knew damn well that all those deposit were coming in because people believed the pricing will be in the Tesla segment. They choose not to moderate expectations but rather continue to talk up the car.

    I also understand that some people on the Blog would happily paid well over $200,000 for the car because it is a Porsche. The Porsche draw on some is inexplicable.Smiley


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Nick, I know the dealers get it. But you're right about Porsche. Often the stick their head in the sand and shout forward. They knew damn well that all those deposit were coming in because people believed the pricing will be in the Tesla segment. They choose not to moderate expectations but rather continue to talk up the car.

    I also understand that some people on the Blog would happily paid well over $200,000 for the car because it is a Porsche. The Porsche draw on some is inexplicable.Smiley

    Time to get off your high moral horse.  The first two Taycan variants are the most expensive.  Other variants, including a base model, priced closer to $80,000, following the Panamera pricing in the States, will eventually be offered.  There is no bait-and-switch by Porsche as you keep alluding.  Porsche decided to introduce its highest performing, and consequently, most expensive Taycan versions first.  It is the company'e prerogative, not yours, to rollout its products as it feels necessary to successfulyl launch a new model.  

    Returning to a more mundane, and appropriate subject for this thread, the two Tesla Model S cars on the Nürburgring are definitely test platforms for the upcoming Roadster 2.0.  Tesla, as usually, is being reactionary instead of proactive in its move to attempt a record run at this legendary track.  Tesla, as a company, should concentrate on maintaining its first-mover advantage as it attempts to become sustainably profitable.  This is merely the first mild phase of the EV onslaught over the next decade.  


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Just had a meeting with the guy with Taycan #1 from the biggest dealer in Toronto. As one of the first cars the dealer wanted certain options and the car was going to end up north of $250k. He told them do that to someone else, he'll take the 100th car that they bring in. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Mithras:

    Just had a meeting with the guy with Taycan #1 from the biggest dealer in Toronto. As one of the first cars the dealer wanted certain options and the car was going to end up north of $250k. He told them do that to someone else, he'll take the 100th car that they bring in. 

    Dealer markup on high demand new vehicles, while odious, is nothing new.  However, it is interest that the guy is willing to wait for more reasonable pricing than taking his business to Tesla.  

    On a related EV note, one was pleasantly surprised that Volkswagen has scheduled to release its North America-focuses ID.4 crossover at the Chicago Auto Show next February.   The Chicago show, while one of the largest in terms of attendance, is a dealer-sponsored show that typically does not draw major introductions.  This may have changed since Detroit is trying to reestablish itself as an international auto show with a move to June instead of January timeframe.  The Audi e-tron sportback is rumored for a November 2019 introduction.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Nick, I know the dealers get it. But you're right about Porsche. Often the stick their head in the sand and shout forward. They knew damn well that all those deposit were coming in because people believed the pricing will be in the Tesla segment. They choose not to moderate expectations but rather continue to talk up the car.

    I also understand that some people on the Blog would happily paid well over $200,000 for the car because it is a Porsche. The Porsche draw on some is inexplicable.Smiley

     

    It is not their job to clean up the mess made by the American journalists/internet blogger, period.

    Dealers all knew what the price will be for trims down to the base model, it's all written in the earlier PDF. It will still be expensive, but Porsche is selling a upmarket car with contents to match, those are never cheap and it's not Porsche's job to mark down their cars to the inferior Tesla level. Just like you don't see Rolls Royce put a 4 banger in their Ghost and cut prices to compete with a Mercedes S600.

    Tesla however, would do well to mark down theirs to match it's competitors, Acura, Lexus, Cadillac, etc, those are the same premium segment cars, or at least add content to justify their high price.


    --

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Tesla is an unprofitable niche player in the global auto market even with the mass production Model 3 and forthcoming Model Y.  It should concentrate on becoming sustaining profitably at the expensive of growth.  The other automakers have significant strengths that Tesla, and its investors can only dream about, in production and distribution.  It needs focus, not the current chaotic approach to growth.  

    I do agree that Tesla, if it becomes focused, can be an alternate to Cadillac, Acura and Infiniti.  Lexus, on the other hand, is too tightly aligned with Toyota for Tesla to challenge directly, but it can nibble away at the edges of Lexus' product line as some of its hybrid models aren't class leading.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    So, they apparently got rid of that diesel generator and replaced it with Superchargers that according to Tesla will be permanent at the ring for all Teslas to charge. That went pretty fast.

    1568841209635tesla.png


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Am I missing something here? Did someone think that Porsche was going to sell 670HP vehicle for 100k? Seriously?

    Also, there are going to be something like 5-6 different models of the Taycan for all the different needs and budgets, so it is only logical that only part of those 30,000 deposits are going to be for the Turbo/S, many will wait untill their desired model becomes available.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:

    Am I missing something here? Did someone think that Porsche was going to sell 670HP vehicle for 100k? Seriously?

    Also, there are going to be something like 5-6 different models of the Taycan for all the different needs and budgets, so it is only logical that only part of those 30,000 deposits are going to be for the Turbo/S, many will wait untill their desired model becomes available.

    Agree. Not sure why anyone thought the Taycan were going to be cheap. It's just to look at the Panamera prices for each model and there you will have the Taycan equivalent in the same ballpark.

    I think I've seen somewhere that Porsche is going to offer the base model with the possibility to upgrade to the larger battery. That will then give the car a great range with the smaller motors and lighter car. Also probably in combination with smaller wheels. That way you can get into a Taycan at a smart price if you want to have the car as a daily commuter but don't care for the best performance figures. Just like the base Cayenne and Macan are the most popular models.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Mithras:

    Just had a meeting with the guy with Taycan #1 from the biggest dealer in Toronto. As one of the first cars the dealer wanted certain options and the car was going to end up north of $250k. He told them do that to someone else, he'll take the 100th car that they bring in. 

    Bravo. Hope it was Pfaff. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Mithras:

    Just had a meeting with the guy with Taycan #1 from the biggest dealer in Toronto. As one of the first cars the dealer wanted certain options and the car was going to end up north of $250k. He told them do that to someone else, he'll take the 100th car that they bring in. 

     

    Wow, Pfaff really go above and beyond to config that car! I tried really really hard and I am still below 250k! Literally one has to click EVERY SINGLE BOX to go above 250k.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    JoeRockhead:
    Mithras:

    Just had a meeting with the guy with Taycan #1 from the biggest dealer in Toronto. As one of the first cars the dealer wanted certain options and the car was going to end up north of $250k. He told them do that to someone else, he'll take the 100th car that they bring in. 

    Bravo. Hope it was Pfaff. 

    SmileySmiley

    Did you have any doubt? Then again DFC would do the same... 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    CGX car nut:

    Tesla is an unprofitable niche player in the global auto market even with the mass production Model 3 and forthcoming Model Y.  It should concentrate on becoming sustaining profitably at the expensive of growth.  The other automakers have significant strengths that Tesla, and its investors can only dream about, in production and distribution.  It needs focus, not the current chaotic approach to growth.  

     

    That is 100% true. Their only chance to survive Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    the dealers are currently on Mallorca getting "schooled" on the car - the reply I got from him was ecstatic.....


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    Tesla puts together a stripped out tuned track mule with semi slicks to beat a regular production sport sedan with street tires, and the headlines just say the Model S beat the Taycan. Heck there isn't even a real lap time and already all the headlines talk about the seconds difference. Tesla 1, Porsche 0 in fake news social media...

    Oh, here comes the classic Carlos exaggerations that we have seen for a while now.

     Actually, Carlos has a good point here because this is how it is going to be...very likely.

    And who knows, Tesla will maybe launch an even faster car in a year than the production mule they play around with right now...

    Let‘s say: you are the only person here who believes in „scenarios“ like this. The rest thinks that Tesla is bullshitting the public one more time. As they did in the past. 

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    BjoernB:

    the dealers are currently on Mallorca getting "schooled" on the car - the reply I got from him was ecstatic.....

    Sounds great SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    BjoernB:

    the dealers are currently on Mallorca getting "schooled" on the car - the reply I got from him was ecstatic.....

    Not difficult or surprising...after the dry spill they had over the past couple of months. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    taycanmalle.JPG


     
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