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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    Still not getting it: What does the GTS have to do with the GT3? If you wanted a 911 in the first place, you could have gotten the 991 Carrera S with Powerkit. Which brings me to the conclusion that you don't know what you want? yes The GT3 is a toy, a weekend car, a car for fun moments, not really suitable as a daily driver (unless you live in a region with lots of sunshine and good streets). The GTS is the exact opposite. Sorry but I don't get it. Why did you order the GTS in the first place? Smiley

    Btw: If you don't want the GTS, just talk to your dealer, there are always possibilities if you want a different car from him.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    It's a long story, had some issues with my Lexus dealer and their poor service for delivering a brand new car with engine / transmission problems etc....

    If I give up the GTS now, no refund will be offered which is another issue (signed a paper before ordering and nobody was keen enough to tell us anything about the GT3 in 2012)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    911rox:

    Porsche under- engineered and under-estimated their system, put customers lives at risk, forced youtube to remove videos to stop their disgrace from being witnessed, left customers with totalled cars at best and injured at worst and now they've passed the buck... I will never be buying anything from Porsche that has CLs on it or unproven components moving forward because I've now experienced first hand how they address problems of their making!

    You are aware that Porsche is monitoring this forum?

    Stupid question: Have you ever contacted Porsche Germany directly? Also, another stupid question: What do you expect them to do in the end? There is a simple solution here: Do not track race your car. I know that you don't like to hear that but you bought a street car, not a race car. Many other so called "sports cars" may not have the CL issue but they have other issues which make them almost unusable for the track, especially not for 50-60 laps.

    I also hate to repeat myself but the whole track racing advertisement is marketing. I still think that Porsche cars are better suitable for track fun than most of the other so called sports cars on the market, with few exceptions but there is track driving and track racing. 50-60 laps surely isn't some harmless track fun but more serious stuff. Expensive hobby, I get it but if you drive 50-60 laps very hard, what about your tires and brake pads? What about your brake fluid? You get my point.

    Right now, we are discussing the new GT3 here, not the CL issues of the older cars.

    Feel free to open a new thread in the 997 section of the forum and you can discuss the CL issue as much as you want. I just think that this thread isn't the right thread for it. We get it...the CL issue is a serious issue for you and others but right now, I don't see how it affects the new GT3. Smiley

    Answers in the order asked:

    - I hope so, I doubt it though

    - Can't comment on this one, although I'm sure you can read between the lines

    - I expect them to put pen to paper, re-enginner the parts in question and fix their mistake so we as customers don't have to go to the track wondering if this is the lucky day we lose a wheel, a fortune in $$$ and maybe our lives

    - We were sold a car market for track as you wronglt dismiss and another poster pointed out with the marketing material from the 991 gt3. We all budget on tyres, brakes, brake fluid and several alignments- just not $10k worth of hubs every other year because a manufacturer F'ed up and passed the buck 3 years after model release so your point is pointless, thanks anyway...

    -It has everything to do with the 991 gt3 because they are standard fitment with the new cars, guess what, you guys will be in the same boat so it is something that should be understood. Just because you may be happy to bury your head in the sand, it doesn't mean others should too... Right?

    I don't really understand your motive for defending Porsche's position on this one with such ordinary arguments that have been convincingly dismissed? I hope a wheel doesn't snap off your next GT3 should you come to buy one because you'll kick yourself for defending their ridiculous position! Smiley

    ps.For the statement in bold- If the car is not capable of being tracked (contrary to their marketing and hype) and they'd said that before they took my money, I would have spent it elsewhere... I bought a track capable street car... I've yet to witness a Porsche promo vid for the GT3 that doesn't consist completely of a GT3 on the limit around the track. I'd suggest based on the manufacturer's material that you may be ill informed on the purpose of this vehicle... Especially considering my dealer had me invited to a track day within three weeks of having purchased it at their expense!Smiley

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Jean:
    911rox:

    Porsche forced youtube to remove videos to stop their disgrace from being witnessed

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oboxnQwEg4

    Just to keep the record straight, nobody removed anything from Youtube!

    Keep the record straight?

    Here is keeping the record straight from someone following this issue closely over the past 3 yrs whilst seeking understanding and a solution for this issue... I have seen and saved links to a number of youtube videos or vids from other sites. Youtube vids disappear, those on other small sights are made private or removed also... Coincidence you say?

    There have been more than half a dozen youtubes of incar footage or spectator footage of GT3s going sideways down the track, bouncing from wall to wall before coming to a stop with a rear wheel missing. All get linked to forums, get lots of hits and all are removed without a sign, a day or two later... Challenge you to find a few more. This is a 2010 video, reposted in late 2011... What does that prove?

    Wonder why AP didn't discuss the motorsport derived CL wheels with Evo? I am because if I was Evo I'd be asking about them considering there have been close to a dozen loses and 2 recalls... Yet another coincidence I suppose...

    If track use isn't the intention of guys on this forum then may I suggest a Cayman... It looks fantastic, two seater, 2/3 the price and equally impressive for cars and coffee! Smiley

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    m4ever:
    reginos:
    911rox:

    I would not be believing blindly in Porsche doing right by customers in this day and age wen VW whom own and control them have big loans to pay and money to make...Smiley

    What does VW have to do with it? Porsche's biggest blunders occurred when they were still independent, from the failing chain tensioners of the 70s to the infamous intermediate shaft of the 996/997.1 era.

    I trust VW quality and their products, from Skoda to Porsche. If anything VW is adding to Porsche a lot already.

    911 were miles ahead in the seventies in reliability compared to their competition of that time (read Ferraris, Maserati etc). Remember race on Sunday sell on Monday?


    The mechanical chain tensioner failure damaged many 911 engines until the hydraulic system was introduced in (if I remember well) 1981. That was pro-actively retrofitted to older cars too in many cases.

    Also the cylinder studs (long studs fixing the separate cylinders to the block)  used to fail very frequently in spite of Porsche experimenting with a variety of different materials over the years. Not all was rosy in the old days, but Porsches were fewer and there was no internet then Smiley. Being more reliable than the Italian cars of the time was not an achievement, really.

    My experience with Porsche reliability and bullet-proof engineering, over the last 34 years:

    1. 1974 Porsche-VW 914: engine drops a valve and self-destructs at ~65,000 miles
    2. 1982 911 SC: bearing race slipping inside transmission housing, at < 10,000 miles; repaired under warranty
    3. 1982 911 SC: valve rocker fails (broke in two), at around 35,000 miles; Porsche paid for part of repairs 
    4. 1982 911 SC: rubber donut in clutch disk disintegrates; rubber piece prevents clutch from disengaging; forced to drive 26 miles shifting without clutch (fun at stop lights)
    5. 1983 944: problem with cam carrier at less than 10,000 miles (service bulletin?); repaired under warranty, but car sat for 2 months waiting for parts (IG Metall on strike)
    6. 1983 944: liquid filled engine mount was no longer (liquid filled, that is); replaced twice, finally with improved design
    7. 1983 944: cylinder gasket failure around 45,000 miles; engine hydro-locks; new cylinder head needed
    8. 1983 944: rubber donut in clutch fails while clutch disk is barely worn
    9. 1983 944: multiple water pump and idler pulley replacements
    10. 2001 Boxster S: RMS replaced THREE (3) times, all covered by Porsche
    11. 2001 Boxster S: front engine mount failure
    12. 2001 Boxster S: water pump impeller disintegrates (VW part)
    13. 2001 Boxster S: CV joint boots keep failing (car not originally designed for 6-speed gearbox, resulting in  disadvantageous angle on CV joints)

    Unimpressive record, to say the least. But I keep going back. Let's hope that the RS-60 (only 8,000 miles so far) does better than this.

    Oh, BTW, my brother just had to have the TPMS sensors and receiver antennas replaced on his 2006 997; close to $2,000.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    My RS-60 was flawless for 23k miles easily the best of 4 Porsches I had owned. The air cooled cars had continual issues but no matter  they were worth it. I swore to never sell the RS-60, but fell for my 991S. Apart from factory recalls for early production running changes and fixes it has had NO problems of any kind in 12k miles so far. Seems to be the best built of any I have owned over the past 45 years.

    One thing so many people seem not to understand is the huge difference between a real race car and a "trackable" street car. The marketing is seductive for cars like the GT3- but it is no race car. If treated like one- run to the limit for lots of laps, rather than track for enjoyment,  it does no better than Porsches other street cars.  My old showroom stock Datsun from the late 70s had heavier duty parts (many from the manufacturer, wink wink). 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In all fairness, I had other Porsches that did not have problems (or at least, nothing remarkable); a 1988 944S comes to mind; great car that one. Or maybe I had come to accept the belt pulley replacements and "engine reseals" as regular maintenance events...

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Saw this on Rennlist about the wheels  - hope not repost:    "991 GT3 Central locking

    The central locking on the new 911 GT3 is a completely new development with higher load limits and improved suitability for track use. The new 911 GT3-specific central lock is identified by a more robust wheel hub for a significantly improved camber stability and carrier bolts that are now fixed to the wheel hub (997 GT3 II: fastened to the brake chamber).
     
    The significantly improved connection system is enhanced by larger bearing journals and larger wheel bearings that are now identical to the 911 GT3 Cup racing cars. The central screws have a friction optimised trapezoidal screw thread and a thread runout with reduced notch effect. The new central screws can be recognized visually by the revised ring gear. The dimensions and the basic shape of the central screws have been retained and the teeth re-accented by distinctive spaces between them. The central screws are anodised black on the new 911 GT3 and have a black wheel hub cover with a silver colored “GT3” logo. "

     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Yes, apparently Porsche are so considerate of customers that they now devise solutions for problems that don't exist, apparently.. Smiley

    To all those in the belief that there was no CL issue, you stand corrected.

    To all those who say that a GT3 is not intended for track use, you stand corrected as Porsche wouldn't be modifying the system for "improved suitability for track use" if the car was not so intended...

    FYI, a maintenance schedule has not been posted for the revised system so we don't know how confident Porsche are that its fixed untill we see it. It the new system requires hubs timed out every 7000km, they are far from fixed! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Changing the subject a little, does anybody know: (i) ground clearance on the new GT3 without use of lifting option (ii) ground clearance with lifting option?  I was in Geneva at the show and one of the Porsche ladies suggested that the clearance is Up to 30mm less than the 997 without lifting option and the same clearance as the 997 GT3 with the use of lfting option?  If this is true, I guess that is bad news for road use, Shell petrol station use, pub car park use and London side road use !!
    --
    Lou

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I believe ground clearance is about 90mm give or take a couple and the use of front lift gives you another 35-40mm at the front and a similar approach angle to a regular Carrera... With front lift, you'll be fine although scrapes of the front lip are a given...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Does anybody know if the front lift device has any impact on the suspension setup? 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Not the front lift on the 997.2 and I'd assume the 991 will be the same.... Works fine!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The battery on the TPMS lasts about 6 years. It is expensive to replace. Mine didn't cost as much because I was putting winter tires. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    Yes, apparently Porsche are so considerate of customers that they now devise solutions for problems that don't exist, apparently.. Smiley

    To all those in the belief that there was no CL issue, you stand corrected.

    To all those who say that a GT3 is not intended for track use, you stand corrected as Porsche wouldn't be modifying the system for "improved suitability for track use" if the car was not so intended...

    FYI, a maintenance schedule has not been posted for the revised system so we don't know how confident Porsche are that its fixed untill we see it. It the new system requires hubs timed out every 7000km, they are far from fixed! Smiley

    I think 911rox should be commended for his persistence in keeping us all informed on this (although it would have been better in a separate thread for future reference).  RC, I think after 3 pages of determined resistance, Grant's insightful (and damning) post found on Rennlist, and 911rox's summary above puts the matter to rest: Porsche's dealing of the pre-991GT3 CL issue is a real disappointment.  Futch agrees with that too.  As RT "main-man", it would be big of you to accept that now.


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KMM:

    My experience with Porsche reliability and bullet-proof engineering, over the last 34 years:

    1. ...
    2. 2001 Boxster S: front engine mount failure
    3. ...

    Let me guess: they fixed that problem by putting your engine in the back where it should have been all along?Smiley


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BiTurbo:
     

    If I give up the GTS now, no refund will be offered which is another issue (signed a paper before ordering and nobody was keen enough to tell us anything about the GT3 in 2012)

    Surely they're no longer making 997 GTS's..?  Presumably it's to completely use up the last of the 997 components, but I'm surprised the production line would still even be tooled...?  Are they even making 997 Turbos now, given that the 991 is a year in?

    Also, I don't think the 991 price increase (coupled with the lower residual a new(old) 997 would carry) would make many people consider it as an option - those that would still be attracted by a 997GTS would get better value with unsold stock with dealers - or 1yr olds with hardly any mileage...


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Budster:
    911rox:

    Yes, apparently Porsche are so considerate of customers that they now devise solutions for problems that don't exist, apparently.. Smiley

    To all those in the belief that there was no CL issue, you stand corrected.

    To all those who say that a GT3 is not intended for track use, you stand corrected as Porsche wouldn't be modifying the system for "improved suitability for track use" if the car was not so intended...

    FYI, a maintenance schedule has not been posted for the revised system so we don't know how confident Porsche are that its fixed untill we see it. It the new system requires hubs timed out every 7000km, they are far from fixed! Smiley

    I think 911rox should be commended for his persistence in keeping us all informed on this (although it would have been better in a separate thread for future reference).  RC, I think after 3 pages of determined resistance, Grant's insightful (and damning) post found on Rennlist, and 911rox's summary above puts the matter to rest: Porsche's dealing of the pre-991GT3 CL issue is a real disappointment.  Futch agrees with that too.  As RT "main-man", it would be big of you to accept that now.

    Thanks Budster and I will take your suggestion on board for future reference although I felt that owners of the next GT3 deserved to know the facts about the CLs so they'd be in a position to make an informed decision in case Porsche hadn't stepped up as they seem too... We weren't afforded the same priviledge with the 997.2 and you guys weren't going to hear it from Porsche as they are in the business of selling cars... Cheers Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Budster:
    KMM:

    My experience with Porsche reliability and bullet-proof engineering, over the last 34 years:

    1. ...
    2. 2001 Boxster S: front engine mount failure
    3. ...

    Let me guess: they fixed that problem by putting your engine in the back where it should have been all along?Smiley

    Well, it was already in the back, but as the saying goes, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer". This being an early M96 motor, I wanted it closer, where I could keep an eye (or at least an ear) on it. Smiley

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:

    Saw this on Rennlist about the wheels  - hope not repost:    "991 GT3 Central locking

    The central locking on the new 911 GT3 is a completely new development with higher load limits and improved suitability for track use. The new 911 GT3-specific central lock is identified by a more robust wheel hub for a significantly improved camber stability and carrier bolts that are now fixed to the wheel hub (997 GT3 II: fastened to the brake chamber).
     
    The significantly improved connection system is enhanced by larger bearing journals and larger wheel bearings that are now identical to the 911 GT3 Cup racing cars. The central screws have a friction optimised trapezoidal screw thread and a thread runout with reduced notch effect. The new central screws can be recognized visually by the revised ring gear. The dimensions and the basic shape of the central screws have been retained and the teeth re-accented by distinctive spaces between them. The central screws are anodised black on the new 911 GT3 and have a black wheel hub cover with a silver colored “GT3” logo. "

     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

    I am the original poster of this on RT, just a few days back, in this thread . Smiley Maybe someone from Rennlist took it from here ?  


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Lu:
    Changing the subject a little, does anybody know: (i) ground clearance on the new GT3 without use of lifting option (ii) ground clearance with lifting option?  I was in Geneva at the show and one of the Porsche ladies suggested that the clearance is Up to 30mm less than the 997 without lifting option and the same clearance as the 997 GT3 with the use of lfting option?  If this is true, I guess that is bad news for road use, Shell petrol station use, pub car park use and London side road use !!

    If you look just one page back in this thread , I have answered this question :

     

    93mm ( centre of front axle, front underbody panelling )

    This is exactly the same as 997 GT3 

     

    And with the lifting sytem :

     

    the body of the new 911 GT3 can also be raised at the front by approx. 30 mm for day-to-day usabil- ity at speeds of up to approx. 50 km/h. 

    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KMM:

    Does anybody know if the front lift device has any impact on the suspension setup? 

     

    No, it is independent.

    he function with an electropneumatic function module in the PASM dampers on the front axle has been adopted from the previous model to a large extent. Operation with a special control button in the centre console also remains unchanged. The structural design of the function module is com- pletely new. It has been adapted to the available space on the new 911 GT3 and equipped with new functional ele- ments. In so doing, the functional and position detection of the system control has been refined and sensitised by means of a new valve block.

    The function module is still a compact unit located at the front of the centre tunnel and is approx. 80 cm long. The pneumatic compressor generates pres- sure of up to 20 bar if required. The pressure reservoir has a fill volume of approx. 1 litre and stores the pressure required for the system to function. The compressed air system is controlled by means of a valve block unit. The sys- tem weight of all components of the front axle lift system is approx. 7 kg.

    Compared to the hydraulically-driven lift systems occasional offered amongst the competition, the pneumatic system in the new 911 GT3 offers higher day- to-day usability. The extension speed of the dampers and thus the raising of the body are considerably faster (approx. 2-3 times faster). Driving comfort, including suspension and damping characteristics, is not restricted by the special system design of the new 911 GT3. Furthermore, because the system is operated with air, it is consid- erably less sensitive than a separate oil- operated lift system in the event of a leak caused by damage. 

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Budster:
    BiTurbo:
     

    If I give up the GTS now, no refund will be offered which is another issue (signed a paper before ordering and nobody was keen enough to tell us anything about the GT3 in 2012)

    Surely they're no longer making 997 GTS's..?  Presumably it's to completely use up the last of the 997 components, but I'm surprised the production line would still even be tooled...?  Are they even making 997 Turbos now, given that the 991 is a year in?

    Also, I don't think the 991 price increase (coupled with the lower residual a new(old) 997 would carry) would make many people consider it as an option - those that would still be attracted by a 997GTS would get better value with unsold stock with dealers - or 1yr olds with hardly any mileage...

    Cayenne GTS Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Doh.  But then the answer is easy: buy both!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:
     

    I am the original poster of this on RT, just a few days back, in this thread . Smiley Maybe someone from Rennlist took it from here ? 

    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Oops, sorry Gnil - didn't see your post  Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:
    Lu:
    Changing the subject a little, does anybody know: (i) ground clearance on the new GT3 without use of lifting option (ii) ground clearance with lifting option?  I was in Geneva at the show and one of the Porsche ladies suggested that the clearance is Up to 30mm less than the 997 without lifting option and the same clearance as the 997 GT3 with the use of lfting option?  If this is true, I guess that is bad news for road use, Shell petrol station use, pub car park use and London side road use !!

    If you look just one page back in this thread , I have answered this question :

     

    93mm ( centre of front axle, front underbody panelling )

    This is exactly the same as 997 GT3 

     

    And with the lifting sytem :

     

    the body of the new 911 GT3 can also be raised at the front by approx. 30 mm for day-to-day usabil- ity at speeds of up to approx. 50 km/h. 

    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Actually, lifting system works till 40km/h only and is available for new GT3 from week 40(2013) for 2975€(german price with Mwst).


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    Gnil:
     

    I am the original poster of this on RT, just a few days back, in this thread . Smiley Maybe someone from Rennlist took it from here ? 

    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Oops, sorry Gnil - didn't see your post  Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

    No problem at all . Smiley   


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Thanks for the explanation. Does this mean that there is a special purpose chamber inside the PASM dampers?

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    Yes, apparently Porsche are so considerate of customers that they now devise solutions for problems that don't exist, apparently.. Smiley

    To all those in the belief that there was no CL issue, you stand corrected.

    To all those who say that a GT3 is not intended for track use, you stand corrected as Porsche wouldn't be modifying the system for "improved suitability for track use" if the car was not so intended...

    FYI, a maintenance schedule has not been posted for the revised system so we don't know how confident Porsche are that its fixed untill we see it. It the new system requires hubs timed out every 7000km, they are far from fixed! Smiley

    I never said the CL issue didn't exist. I just said that in order to avoid the cost for maintenance, you just need to stop track racing. Otherwise, you still have the possibility to sell your car and get the new one. Smiley Joking aside, I really don't understand why we discuss this in the 991 GT3 forum. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:
     

    Actually, lifting system works till 40km/h only and is available for new GT3 from week 40(2013) for 2975€(german price with Mwst).

    According to Porsche...50 kph. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Budster:

    Doh.  But then the answer is easy: buy both!

    Well...this is why I may get the GT3 instead of the Panamera Turbo S and of course I keep the Cayenne GTS. Smiley

    Ordering a Cayenne GTS and then trying to go for a GT3 makes no sense whatsoever. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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