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    GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Enjoy

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-neil2apr02,0,2487267.story

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Unfortunately, that link doesn't work anymore

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Unfortunately, that link doesn't work anymore



    Here

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Thanks

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Great article..:-)Thanks

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Enjoyed reading the article, thanks !

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Good read. Especially "yes, it comes with the finest pedigree in all of motorsports."

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Copied and pasted here:

    2008 Porsche GT2: Brute Almighty

    "You may recall from your psychology classes the name Harry Harlow, a controversial researcher known for his wire monkey-surrogate mother experiments. One group of baby rhesus monkeys was taken away from its mothers and given a maternal figure made of terry cloth; another group was given a figure made of just bare wire. These experiments demonstrated the famous Harry-Harlow-was-a-toolbag principle.

    In Porsche's laboratory, the relatively luxe 911 Turbo (what with its padded seats and all) is the terry-cloth monkey and the new GT2 -- stripped utterly to its essentials, inhospitable, a harsh mockery of the comforts of the automobile -- is the wire monkey. To love the GT2 is to embrace its malign indifference to your well-being. To cuddle one is to feel the cold bite of steel against your cheek. Mommy, why won't you hold me?

    Basically a Porsche Motorsport version of the 911 Turbo (or turbocharged version of the track-ready GT3 RS, if you like), the GT2 is the most hard-core 911 ever to wear a license plate and the first production 911 to exceed 200 mph. Because, obviously, the Turbo's 480 hp is too, too paltry for real Porsche men, the boys in Weissach kicked up the output another 50 hp, with highly capacious intake manifolds and titanium exhaust plumbing on either side of the turbochargers. Lift the engine lid and all you see are the car's enormous lungs ducted from air intakes integrated into the dual-foil spoiler, which looks like something Klingons would carry into battle.

    The GT2's steroid regime also includes lots of good old hot-rodding. The Turbo's all-wheel-drive system is jettisoned in favor of a lighter and racier rear-wheel transaxle shared with the GT3 RS. Also shared with the GT3 are the phenomenal 15-inch carbon ceramic front disc brakes and fully adjustable suspension inspired by the paint-shaking machine at Home Depot. The GT2's lightweighting program concludes with ditching the rear seats, tossing out all the sound-deadening material, stripping some interior panels to bare carbon fiber and supplanting the front seats with leather-lined carbon shells padded with . . . well, nothing. The resulting car (3,270 pounds) is 225 pounds lighter than the 911 Turbo and is about as cozy as an MRI machine.

    And yet I find it hilarious that Porsche, having thus perverted the car's power-to-weight ratio, chose to retain the two swing-arm cup holders. This begs the question: What the hell is in the cups?

    My guess is money: The GT2 retails for a not-insubstantial $192,560. Yes, it offers performance at or above the best supercars in the world; yes, it comes with the finest pedigree in all of motorsports. But 200 grand for a 911? I will talk more about the price later when I address the fewer than 200 or so trustafarians in the U.S. who might be inclined to pony up for the GT2.

    From the extraneous metaphor file: The GT2 is like lighting a cigarette on an erupting volcano. It's like cutting a line out of a kilo of cocaine and then snorting the kilo.

    This car is quite simply insane and, frankly, kind of scary, not because of any dynamic flaw but because of the way the stupendous forces in hand are delivered with such seeming effortlessness. To begin with, everything is ultra-hard: the seats, the suspension, the steering and brakes, the monocoque chassis that feels made entirely of Higgs bosons. All the slack, wobble and flex has been scourged from the car, leaving -- as the only tactile source of elasticity -- the throttle.

    The gestalt of the car, then, is of something enormously powerful but also very locked down and secure, some giant in chains. Squeeze the gas and ramp up to redline in the first three gears (you'll be well in excess of 100 mph when you do) and the car feels totally untroubled. It feels alert, yes, awake, certainly -- and the deep chortle and hiss of the turbocharged engine is something out of Dante. But the GT2 gives off almost none of the clues that provide a frame of reference, no early warning system that you're going too fast. I mean, it has a speedometer, but who ever looks at those?

    Here I will defer with thanks and praise to the boffins at Motor Trend, whose instrumented testing of the GT2 (the same car I drove) recorded a 0-60 mph acceleration of 3.4 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 11.4 seconds. Both of those numbers put the GT2 in the ranks of Ferrari Enzos and Koenigsegg CCXs and Pagani Zondas and a few other cars you've never heard of. And yet the salient figure from Motor Trend's tests is the trap speed: At the end of the quarter-mile, the GT2 can be traveling at 127.4 miles per hour. From there it's a short and exhilarating escalator ride to over 200 mph.

    Let me unpack those numbers for you. It means that when you jump on the GT2's throttle -- something you'll be sorely tempted to do -- it practically explodes in a furious, jaw-slacking, gut-churning hullabaloo of weapons-grade torque such that accelerating from 60 to 120 mph takes one gearshift and a few scant seconds. This, to state the obvious, is kind of fun. But it's the sort of performance you dare not access on the street. Drivers a half-mile ahead can dutifully check their mirrors before changing lanes, and in the time it takes to signal and turn the wheel, the GT2 can materialize beside them like it's dropping out of hyperspace.

    Unfortunately, the 405 Freeway does not connect to the Autobahn. The trouble with the GT2 is that it feels so unfulfilled driven at regular speeds. Indeed, this is a problem with most supercars: The suspension and brakes, the steering and engine aren't being at all taxed by the velocities and forces invoked by just muttering up the Angeles Crest Highway. But this sensation is particularly acute with the GT2, which is a thoroughbred race car. To get the GT2 to really harmonize, to come into itself dynamically, you have to go at it really hard, and that is simply too dangerous on the street. Not that the car is undriveable; on the contrary, it's as complaisant and tractable as any other 911. The engine's got loads of low-end torque; the controls aren't really race-car heavy. It's even got a decent nav and audio system. But the overwhelming sense of the car is one of deep, almost painful frustration.

    This brings me to a truism, a Zen koan of automobility: It's more fun to go fast in a slow car than slow in a fast car.

    Whom is this car for? First, it's for extremely well-heeled club-racing enthusiasts, who will weep with joy behind the wheel. Second, it's for organizations like Motor Trend that have independently verified the car's astonishing -- though kind of irrelevant -- 0-60 mph acceleration. The GT2 marks the first appearance of Porsche's launch control system that goes by the hilarious euphemism of "Start-off Assist." The way it works is this: Toggle through the menu on the instrument panel until the boost gauge is displayed. Put the car in first gear, rev to about 5,000 rpm (or 14 pounds of boost) and drop the clutch. The system automatically feathers the throttle to maximize grip and hole-shot acceleration. For a similar sensation, put a rodeo barrel on a train track, climb in and wait.

    There's a charming note in the owners manual that says, basically, use of Start-Off Assist will considerably shorten the life of certain driveline components. No duh.

    In any event, the GT2's 0-60 mph number is pure marketing, the glowing numerical nimbus of incomparable performance around this, Porsche's halo car. Nobody who owns this car is going to be flogging it at Irwindale Speedway on test-and-tune night -- like I did (sorry, Porsche).

    It ain't me, babe. I continue to love the 911 Turbo, with its all-wheel drive and available automatic transmission, comfy seats, compliant suspension and proper upholstery. The Turbo churns up virtually all of the same Porsche-brand adrenaline while still being livable and lovable. So it only goes 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds. So it only goes 190 mph. Call me a wuss."

    I thought it was extremely well written. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    lol, especially loved this part:
    Quote:
    Let me unpack those numbers for you. It means that when you jump on the GT2's throttle -- something you'll be sorely tempted to do -- it practically explodes in a furious, jaw-slacking, gut-churning hullabaloo of weapons-grade torque such that accelerating from 60 to 120 mph takes one gearshift and a few scant seconds. This, to state the obvious, is kind of fun. But it's the sort of performance you dare not access on the street. Drivers a half-mile ahead can dutifully check their mirrors before changing lanes, and in the time it takes to signal and turn the wheel, the GT2 can materialize beside them like it's dropping out of hyperspace.




    Thanks for posting guys!
    -Joost-

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Very entertainingly written article but, do I actually agree with the final conclusion? I don't think so. I'm not basing this on a real life, side by side comparison between a GT2 and a TT based on back to back drives in both cars. My view is more a theoretical one formed in my head!

    I would rather have the ultimate than something near the ultimate. Why? Because IMHO it's a false assumption to make that the GT2 is only a story of frustration at not being able to get the maximum out of the car whilst the TT is different.

    With speed limits (except Germany) being the way they are, I think the frustration issue is very likely much the same with both the GT2 and the TT i.e. it's very hard to enjoy both cars to the max in real life, day-to-day usage. As such, that issue just isn't relevant in my thinking.

    So I would rather just have the better car given that the GT2 is, to paraphrase the author's words, a GT3RS with a twin turbo charged engine or a TT with a GT3RS suspension set up etc.

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Well, I think that part of this "frustration" as the author calls it, comes from the fact that the GT2 seems to be at home at high speeds, whilst the turbo also feels at home just cruisin... at least, that is what I understand from his article.
    -Joost-

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    I assume Dan Neil wrote the article. He probably is the best automotive writer in the US. His conclusion is unless this car is tracked it is a waste of money to buy it. As good as it is, it has no relevance to real world driving.

    His comment and the essence of the article is something we should seriously consider. He wrote " This brings me to a truism, a Zen koan of automobility: It's more fun to go fast in a slow car than slow in a fast car

    I believe that is a problem Porsche faces with its upper end 911 model. To truly enjoy these cars you must be near their limits. That is why I find Ferrari so satisfying. You can drive slow and still experience the thrill of driving.

    Re: GT2 review by Los Angeles Times

    I'm sorry Nick, that doesn't make sense to me. If what the article says is actually true (i.e. that it's less fun to drive a fast car slowly than it is to drive a slow car fast) AND if you agree with that proposition, how do you square that with what you're saying? (i.e. that an 'upper end 911' suffers from this problem but that a Ferrari doesn't).

    Surely, by this reasoning, both the F430 and the GT2 should suffer from the same problem?

    But if your view that the Ferrari doesn't suffer from this problem (whereas the GT2 does) is indeed correct, then you're actually disagreeing implicitly with the 'truism' stated in the article.

    I personally think the so called 'truism' is not actually an absolute rule. So it isn't really a truism after all! Rather, it's a trend one may find on a case by case basis.

    It all just makes me think the following: I certainly believe you enjoy your Ferrari at low speeds because you enjoy the 'Ferrari experience' (which is a combination of sounds and sensations). But, at low speed, all that implies to me is that the exhaust noise and engine sound are what are actually thrilling you at low speed. The exhaust sound (and to a certain extent the engine sound) in modern cars is largely tuned (i.e. manufactured) to sound that way.

    That being the case, why not simply listen to sound files of your F430 on your PC? (Sorry, couldn't resist a little joke!)

    But my point is nonetheless a serious one i.e. that in today's speed limited motoring on imperfect roads, driving is a sensation that is mostly manufactured to please within certain parameters. It's only on a track (which for most is an unfamiliar environment) that what a car is actually capable of can be fully experienced. How many people actually explore those limits?

    Re: GT2 review by Los Angeles Times

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I'm sorry Nick, that doesn't make sense to me. If what the article says is actually true (i.e. that it's less fun to drive a fast car slowly than it is to drive a slow car fast) AND if you agree with that proposition, how do you square that with what you're saying? (i.e. that an 'upper end 911' suffers from this problem but that a Ferrari doesn't).

    Surely, by this reasoning, both the F430 and the GT2 should suffer from the same problem?

    But if your view that the Ferrari doesn't suffer from this problem (whereas the GT2 does) is indeed correct, then you're actually disagreeing implicitly with the 'truism' stated in the article.

    I personally think the so called 'truism' is not actually an absolute rule. So it isn't really a truism after all! Rather, it's a trend one may find on a case by case basis.

    It all just makes me think the following: I certainly believe you enjoy your Ferrari at low speeds because you enjoy the 'Ferrari experience' (which is a combination of sounds and sensations). But, at low speed, all that implies to me is that the exhaust noise and engine sound are what are actually thrilling you at low speed. The exhaust sound (and to a certain extent the engine sound) in modern cars is largely tuned (i.e. manufactured) to sound that way.

    That being the case, why not simply listen to sound files of your F430 on your PC? (Sorry, couldn't resist a little joke!)

    But my point is nonetheless a serious one i.e. that in today's speed limited motoring on imperfect roads, driving is a sensation that is mostly manufactured to please within certain parameters. It's only on a track (which for most is an unfamiliar environment) that what a car is actually capable of can be fully experienced. How many people actually explore those limits?



    Porsche's need to be driven at or near their limit to be enjoyed. Otherwise, they are designed to be daily GT cars. You might as well be driving Chevrolet. The GT2 is hardcore to be driven at speed but sadly not possible on public roads.

    That is not the case with Ferrari, Gallardo or some of the other premium sport cars. The premium cars only purpose is visceral, sensory and physical enjoyment. That is the way they were designed. I am sure you would understand if you drove some of these cars.

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I assume Dan Neil wrote the article.


    That's a safe assumption, since Dan Neil's name appears in the by-line to the article.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    He probably is the best automotive writer in the US.


    That is a libel of all the true automotive writers in the USA, Nick. From Neil's writing it is obvious that he is a journo who gets to write about cars, and not a real auto journalist. He is too awestruck by the GT2's performance to be really able to objectively judge it.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I believe that is a problem Porsche faces with its upper end 911 model. To truly enjoy these cars you must be near their limits. That is why I find Ferrari so satisfying. You can drive slow and still experience the thrill of driving.


    I can assure you from personal experience that whether GT2, F360 or F430, or Gallardo Superleggera the problem is the same:
    - I would not be able to take any of these cars to their limits because their limits are way beyond mine, but to be able to enjoy any one of these cars I needed enough seat time to familiarize myself enough with them to to lose my initial inhibitions. An experienced auto journo does not need much seat time to get to that stage. Dan Neil obviously did not get enough seat time in the GT2 to achieve his personal comfort zone.

    PS added: Nick, have just read your post of 12:33h above (Central European Time, don't know if you see the same time on your screen). You really need to drive the 997 GT2, and more than just a few miles to your local Starbucks. You'll be surprised just how "driveable" it is.
    You can drive a stick-shift, right? Of course you can! You inadvertantly mentioned recently that you had driven a Carrera GT and obviously been impressed by it. ;-)

    Re: GT2 reveiw by Los Angeles Times

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I assume Dan Neil wrote the article.


    That's a safe assumption, since Dan Neil's name appears in the by-line to the article.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    He probably is the best automotive writer in the US.


    That is a libel of all the true automotive writers in the USA, Nick. From Neil's writing it is obvious that he is a journo who gets to write about cars, and not a real auto journalist. He is too awestruck by the GT2's performance to be really able to objectively judge it.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I believe that is a problem Porsche faces with its upper end 911 model. To truly enjoy these cars you must be near their limits. That is why I find Ferrari so satisfying. You can drive slow and still experience the thrill of driving.


    I can assure you from personal experience that whether GT2, F360 or F430, or Gallardo Superleggera the problem is the same:
    - I would not be able to take any of these cars to their limits because their limits are way beyond mine, but to be able to enjoy any one of these cars I needed enough seat time to familiarize myself enough with them to to lose my initial inhibitions. An experienced auto journo does not need much seat time to get to that stage. Dan Neil obviously did not get enough seat time in the GT2 to achieve his personal comfort zone.

    PS added: Nick, have just read your post of 12:33h above (Central European Time, don't know if you see the same time on your screen). You really need to drive the 997 GT2, and more than just a few miles to your local Starbucks. You'll be surprised just how "driveable" it is.
    You can drive a stick-shift, right? Of course you can! You inadvertantly mentioned recently that you had driven a Carrera GT and obviously been impressed by it. ;-)



    Fritz you have not been on your game recently.

    I read the pasted article and nowhere is Dan Neil's name cited. However I am familiar with the LA Times and I do know Dan is their Auto writer.

    FWIW, Dan Neil won the Pulitzer price for automotive reporting so your characterization of him as an uninformed auto journalist to say the least a misinformed comment on your part.

    I have studied the 997 GT2 and find it to be quite an achievement considering its performance is close to the CGT for less than 1/2 price. My point and believe Dan's point is the car is superfluous. It has no redeeming feature other than its out of the world performance. It looks like other 997's, has no practical purpose on public roads compared to the TT and even the lowly 997's and S's. Yet, out it on the track and it will decimate just about everything. But for far less money you can do as well if not better with vehicle modification.

    The CGT is totally different car. It's styling is its own. Its performance is top tier. It is a convertible. It is as raw if not more so than the GT2. The totality of the CGT as a road car for exceeds what the GT2 can offer. People who buy the GT2 are (as Dan writes) narrow enthusiast with ownership as the main reason for the purchase. Maybe that is why Porsche is restricting production of the car.

    Can I drive a shift gear box? I want to forget I can. I live in the 21st century.

    Re: GT2 review by Los Angeles Times

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:


    It all just makes me think the following: I certainly believe you enjoy your Ferrari at low speeds because you enjoy the 'Ferrari experience' (which is a combination of sounds and sensations). But, at low speed, all that implies to me is that the exhaust noise and engine sound are what are actually thrilling you at low speed. The exhaust sound (and to a certain extent the engine sound) in modern cars is largely tuned (i.e. manufactured) to sound that way.





    That is the key. And very few cars do it quite as well as mine. Nice read, but I'm sure the GT2 is a lot of fun on highway on-ramps.

     
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