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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This little nugget on TMZ.com illustrates an enormous shortcoming with Tesla’s Autopilot.  A driverless Model S careened down the interstate as the supposed driver and passengers drink and sing away.  This is stupidity on steroids.https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/11/idiots-in-tesla-autopilot-singing-highway-alcohol/  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    This little nugget on TMZ.com illustrates an enormous shortcoming with Tesla’s Autopilot.  A driverless Model S careened down the interstate as the supposed driver and passengers drink and sing away.  This is stupidity on steroids.https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/11/idiots-in-tesla-autopilot-singing-highway-alcohol/  

     Correction - it demonstrates human beings lack of understanding of the owners manual. Both the drivers and the people who post this as an indication of some Tesla shortcoming. It is a drivers aid a this point. Sane people understand this and appreciate the fact that this is how progress is made. Unless you are afraid you may forget about its limitations while in drivers seat you have nothing to fear.  I don’t have a problem with this. Other people driving them will just make you more safe. 
    Do let me know when some other car has the same amount safety built in.  Idiots like these would be somehow less dangerous in another type of car?  Hmmm
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Quit protecting Tesla, they are also partly to blame, Tesla does not market it as a driver's aid, rather as a AUTOPILOT, literally, does not provide the means to avoid people using it like an autopilot (see the many many videos like the one above) which would be cheap and simple to do, and has been heavily criticized for their marketing it as an autopilot, they are the ONLY automaker to do this, everybody else makes it clear its just a level 2/3 aid and even reflect it in the name.

    https://thenextweb.com/shift/2020/07/15/german-court-slams-the-brakes-on-teslas-bogus-autopilot-marketing/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44225059


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:

    Quit protecting Tesla, they are also partly to blame, Tesla does not market it as a driver's aid, rather as a AUTOPILOT, literally, does not provide the means to avoid people using it like an autopilot (see the many many videos like the one above) which would be cheap and simple to do, and has been heavily criticized for their marketing it as an autopilot, they are the ONLY automaker to do this, everybody else makes it clear its just a level 2/3 aid and even reflect it in the name.

    https://thenextweb.com/shift/2020/07/15/german-court-slams-the-brakes-on-teslas-bogus-autopilot-marketing/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44225059


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    This is exactly why, outside of General Motor’s Super Cruise, the other automakers’ lane assist programs require the driver’s attention.  It is to prevent incidents like this.  There was an incident on the autobahn a few years ago where a driver filmed himself putting his Nissan into lane keep assist mode and climbing into the back seat.  I believe Nissan was required to introduce a check system to ensure that a driver maintains a hand on the steering wheel.  
     

    The other automakers can readily introduce a similar lane assist program like what Tesla has on its cars but the other automakers are acutely aware of the liability that is created by such actions.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Again. I’m not protecting Tesla. What I keep pointing out is that it is clearly not marketed as level 5 or anything other than a drivers aid at this point. Owners know it’s limitations. If they don’t understand them then what do I care anymore than if they made other poor driving choices. You can pretend all you want that you don’t hear what I’m saying and infer I’m saying something else. 
    The other automakers don’t have nearly the capability at this point. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    We hear what your saying, problem is that you don't seem to hear yourself to anymore when it's regarding Tesla  

    They market it as.... A U T O P I L O T ffs and even Musk himself has gone on TV showing it off driving with his hands off the wheel  


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This will only change when Tesla finds itself as a Defendant following a heinous accident because someone misused its Autopilot system.  For reference see Anderson v. General Motors where a badly injured and burned family sued General Motors after the twenty year old Chevrolet Malibu the Anderson family were in caught fire after being in a rear end collision.  
     

    General Motors was found guilty and held responsible for the family’s injuries.  The East St. Louis jury awarded them $4.9 billion based on the Plaintiffs’ attorney’s closing argument where he stated General Motors was worth over $20 billion. The jury interpreted market capitalization as the equivalent of cash in a checking account.  The judge reduced the damages amount to roughly a $1 billion.   Under that rubric, think what a jury could award damages against Tesla.
     

    The following is not a hypothetical.  This afternoon there was a gang-related shooting at the local mall.  The mall was evacuated and all entrances were barricaded closed.  That mall also hosts a Tesla Supercharger and an Electrify America charging station. The mall is located on a major East/West Interstate.  Several hours later access to these chargers is still prohibited and the nearest Supercharger is 40 miles to the north; therefore, if that Tesla needs a charge, the driver potentially will have to travel 80 miles out of the way.  That’s a major limitation.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You do realize that there are far more electrical outlets than there are gas stations. There are more than 5000 gas station fires in the US every year. Is that a limitation?  How many houses burn down thanks to cars catching fire?  
    Do you suggest people not buy Tesla until the company change the name autopilot to something else?  Did you know that Porsche traction management still allows drivers to slip and slide on ice?  Wow - even Musk drove with his hands off the wheel???  OMG, so if you had developed this functionality you would not show it off?  
    I have never seen a bigger bunch of cry babies grasping for straws. If your car could drive even a tiny bit on its own or had a driving aid as effective you would be singing its praises. Too funny. Love this thread. 
    I suggest you guys stick to ICE. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Is your reading comprehension really this poor or does your blind allegiance to Tesla cloud your cognitive abilities?   This Supercharger is located off a major East/West corridor and is a major stop for Teslas traveling long distances. If you know no one in the community where do you stop to plug in your car?  Plus, as you know, charging on a 120 volt outlet is significantly longer than using the Supercharger.  Therefore someone traveling will either need to spend the night at a hotel or travel to the other Supercharger located 40 miles to the north.  This too is a significant diversion that  increases in travel time.

     

     
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I always charge at home except for long road trips. At close to 50 miles per hour. There are level two chargers in m area outnumbering gas stations 4 to 1. 
    you guys simply don’t have EV experience. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    If your car could drive even a tiny bit on its own or had a driving aid as effective you would be singing its praises...

    Leawood, with all due respect, you clearly trust your car far too much... Smiley

    ...that is a serious blindspot in a Tesla! Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This isn’t about your specific charging habits but about access to a critical Supercharger for long distance travelers.  This Supercharger is frequented by out-of-state drivers, not local drivers.  The next closest Supercharger is inconveniently located for the out-of-state drivers.  This is a classic example of an unknown unknown that DefSec Rumsfeld spoke about years ago but it also highlights still existing shortfalls in the existing charging network and if Tesla does not have a CHAdeMO adapter.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Leawood911:

    If your car could drive even a tiny bit on its own or had a driving aid as effective you would be singing its praises...

    Leawood, with all due respect, you clearly trust your car far too much... Smiley

    ...that is a serious blindspot in a Tesla! Smiley

    That is some high tech cameras working on that Tesla, a human would of never seen that giant truck in the middle of the highway, seems FSD is just a corner away like Musk said 

    And why didn't the driver brake himself in time? because he wasn't paying attention because he was on Autopilot....

    Lidar would of caught the bounce from that white truck from a Km away btw.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I never said I trusted it and I don’t. What I said is it’s the best available period. It is a great aid if you understand it’s current limitations. 
    puzzle me this -do you think if you owned it you could use it responsibility?  In that case would you not be safer and enjoy long drives more?  

    This is the case for me. So I like it just fine. If you guys think you can’t resist the temptation to let it drive unattended then don’t get it. Simple. Others will. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The inevitable march towards 800V system continues.

    https://insideevs.com/news/443256/delphi-inverters-top-global-premium-oems/

    Anyone care to guess who OEM signed with Delphi? My best guess is Daimler. 

    Tesla really need to move to 800V to stay with the competition. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    On another note, just watched a Youtube video about Tesla's V3 chargers in Europe. It is NOT using Tesla's propriety plug, but industrial standard CCS2 Combo 2 plug. They must be phasing out their own propriety system and moving over to the industrial standard stuff.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    On another note, just watched a Youtube video about Tesla's V3 chargers in Europe. It is NOT using Tesla's propriety plug, but industrial standard CCS2 Combo 2 plug. They must be phasing out their own propriety system and moving over to the industrial standard stuff.

     

    Yeah, some clever owners used the Tesla Superchargers to charge their cars for free... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Taycan with big battery starts at 2%, Model 3 starts at 7% and e-Tron starts at 4% SoC.

    Guess which one gets to 90% SoC first?

    Tyacan and Model 3 gets to 90% just about the same time. But the Taycan's 800V system pack in 84kW in the same time as the 400V Model 3 packed in 61kW. Just counting raw power the 800V Taycan system supply over 1/3 more power into the car at the same time. 

    With a more 'efficient' drivetrain and smaller battery, just imagine how much better and useful a 800V Model 3 can be. Literally cutting the current charging time by a 1/3 if not a 1/4. 

    Another step towards how Elon sees it, his Model 3 becomes the 'common' EV car, like a Corolla or a Civic. Efficient and convenient transportation device. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Interesting result and an example of the competitive strengths of the Volkswagen Group over Tesla, for example.  Each marque under the Volkswagen Group umbrella is able to explore different technical solutions to expand the collective knowledge of the Group.  Tesla and many other automakers don’t have that ability.  
     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    Interesting result and an example of the competitive strengths of the Volkswagen Group over Tesla, for example.  Each marque under the Volkswagen Group umbrella is able to explore different technical solutions to expand the collective knowledge of the Group.  Tesla and many other automakers don’t have that ability.  

    The truth? If VW Group wanted, they could put some serious Tesla competitors on the market pretty soon.

    Why they don't do it? Because they don't know how the future looks, right now they are moving in various different direction, in the hope, that at some point, it will be perfectly clear how the car of the future will look alike. I do not know if this strategy is clever or not but it certainly can save some substantial amounts of (development) money. Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    Interesting result and an example of the competitive strengths of the Volkswagen Group over Tesla, for example.  Each marque under the Volkswagen Group umbrella is able to explore different technical solutions to expand the collective knowledge of the Group.  Tesla and many other automakers don’t have that ability.  
     

     

    Each of them needs to somehow keep selling ICE cars in parallel. Brilliant.  Don’t need to do this. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SmileyWhoopsy:

    Taycan with big battery starts at 2%, Model 3 starts at 7% and e-Tron starts at 4% SoC.

    Guess which one gets to 90% SoC first?

    Tyacan and Model 3 gets to 90% just about the same time. But the Taycan's 800V system pack in 84kW in the same time as the 400V Model 3 packed in 61kW. Just counting raw power the 800V Taycan system supply over 1/3 more power into the car at the same time. 

    With a more 'efficient' drivetrain and smaller battery, just imagine how much better and useful a 800V Model 3 can be. Literally cutting the current charging time by a 1/3 if not a 1/4. 

    Another step towards how Elon sees it, his Model 3 becomes the 'common' EV car, like a Corolla or a Civic. Efficient and convenient transportation device. 

     

     

    So you went through a great deal of trouble to avoid a simple question.  At home, with your charger putting out 30 amps,  how many miles per hour do you achieve?  I understand this is maybe not important to you, but humor me. It is noteworthy because it combines the efficiency of the car and the home charger.  As you explore EV ownership you may find this number is more important to a customer than 800 volts.  Unless you think charging times are not important, just 400 vs 800 volts. 
    Btw on a v3 supercharger the model 3 charger at > 1000 miles per hour. 
    Btw - I’m perfectly secure and man enough to drive a Corolla or a Civic. They are great cars and I have bought both.  I am more concerned about my legacy and ensuring my kids enjoy the wealth my great grandparents created. Expensive cars are frowned upon in families like mine. I tend to agree. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Interesting result and an example of the competitive strengths of the Volkswagen Group over Tesla, for example.  Each marque under the Volkswagen Group umbrella is able to explore different technical solutions to expand the collective knowledge of the Group.  Tesla and many other automakers don’t have that ability.  
     

     

    Each of them needs to somehow keep selling ICE cars in parallel. Brilliant.  Don’t need to do this. 

    Don't need to do what? build ICE cars? outside the Tesla bubble there are drivers who don't want drive an EV, in fact most people prefer ICE cars, not just petrol heads. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    My wife drove with me in the Tesla S P100D and in the Taycan Turbo S and Taycan 4S.

    Her conclusion was simple: No EV for me, even worse...she said she wouldn't drive it (which is a problem when we sometimes switch cars for family reasons).

    Also (maybe) interesting: We have many friends and none (not a single one of them) has an EV. Some of them are quite the environmentalists and nature lovers. I am also not aware that anyone of them wants an EV. 

    Sorry but I just don't see the success of EVs right now, at least over here in Germany.

    We here in the forum are car lovers and some of us are gadget lovers as well, so a driving gadget makes sense and yes, I am playing with the thought of getting an EV now and then but many people just don't want one. They are not practical (yet) and the charging infrastructure is a serious issue right now. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    Interesting result and an example of the competitive strengths of the Volkswagen Group over Tesla, for example.  Each marque under the Volkswagen Group umbrella is able to explore different technical solutions to expand the collective knowledge of the Group.  Tesla and many other automakers don’t have that ability.  
     

     

    Each of them needs to somehow keep selling ICE cars in parallel. Brilliant.  Don’t need to do this. 

     

    That's the Tesla people's sole argument. There is no 'protecting' the normal car business. They are just being flexible and adaptive to the market.

    Car manufacturers sell CARS. Tesla can only sell EVs, they want to force everyone to buy EVs. Other manufacturers make and sell what the consumer WANTS. Demand driven economy. Not supply driven.

    In the current market, majority of consumers clearly doesn't want EVs yet, they still want normal cars and hence what manufacturers are all still making mostly normal cars. Can they all transition to making EVs? Absolutely. But why would they do that right now? To have parking lots and parking lots full of cars that they can't sell?

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:
    SmileyWhoopsy:

    Taycan with big battery starts at 2%, Model 3 starts at 7% and e-Tron starts at 4% SoC.

    Guess which one gets to 90% SoC first?

    Tyacan and Model 3 gets to 90% just about the same time. But the Taycan's 800V system pack in 84kW in the same time as the 400V Model 3 packed in 61kW. Just counting raw power the 800V Taycan system supply over 1/3 more power into the car at the same time. 

    With a more 'efficient' drivetrain and smaller battery, just imagine how much better and useful a 800V Model 3 can be. Literally cutting the current charging time by a 1/3 if not a 1/4. 

    Another step towards how Elon sees it, his Model 3 becomes the 'common' EV car, like a Corolla or a Civic. Efficient and convenient transportation device. 

     

     

    So you went through a great deal of trouble to avoid a simple question.  At home, with your charger putting out 30 amps,  how many miles per hour do you achieve?  I understand this is maybe not important to you, but humor me. It is noteworthy because it combines the efficiency of the car and the home charger.  As you explore EV ownership you may find this number is more important to a customer than 800 volts.  Unless you think charging times are not important, just 400 vs 800 volts. 
    Btw on a v3 supercharger the model 3 charger at > 1000 miles per hour. 
    Btw - I’m perfectly secure and man enough to drive a Corolla or a Civic. They are great cars and I have bought both.  I am more concerned about my legacy and ensuring my kids enjoy the wealth my great grandparents created. Expensive cars are frowned upon in families like mine. I tend to agree. 

     

    Are you that stuck up and can't see the bigger picture?

    Home charging doesn't matter. Every one have 8-10 hours to charge at home at night.

    It's about the perceived convenience of driving and EV just as easy as a normal car for the regular consumers. 

    If one wants a high EV adoption rate, one needs to bring the infrastructure up to and beyond what normal car enjoys right now to sway people to switch over.

    To understand the market, you can't think like a EV owner or use any argument from the EV side of things. You have to see things from the other side. And what they want is charging time on par or not far behind filling up a gas tank, and charging stations as numerous or close to the number of gas stations. That's the tipping point for market to switch over.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I see. You don’t have any specs on your side expect for build quality and expensive price. Lol. 
    Maybe you will do better with depreciation. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Leawood911:

    I see. You don’t have any specs on your side expect for build quality and expensive price. Lol. 
    Maybe you will do better with depreciation. 

     

    EVs can have different price points, they can spread up and down the market like normal cars. The Germans are gunning for the high end and they got it.

    Just like normal car segments, the high end will have deprecations, just part of the game.

    Build quality is always there for the Germans, it's Tesla that needs to improve to compete with the Japanese and Koreans. Right now they are good enough fro an American made car, and getting on the boat to the next generation of technology is more important than spending extra for better build quality. They really don't want to get left behind. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    I see. You don’t have any specs on your side expect for build quality and expensive price. Lol. 
    Maybe you will do better with depreciation. 

    EVs can have different price points, they can spread up and down the market like normal cars. The Germans are gunning for the high end and they got it.

    Just like normal car segments, the high end will have deprecations, just part of the game.

    Build quality is always there for the Germans, it's Tesla that needs to improve to compete with the Japanese and Koreans. Right now they are good enough fro an American made car, and getting on the boat to the next generation of technology is more important than spending extra for better build quality. They really don't want to get left behind. 

    Norway has been an early adopter of EVs and the competition is increasing...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    78BC39DC-A5B5-4410-B8ED-FE01ABACCFCB.jpeg



     
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