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    WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    The latest GT magazine, it's a UK Porsche only magazine has an article written by a 997S owner and he claims he bought the wrong 911 and should've bought the regular base 997! He claims the 997S suspension,steering, and "road feel," are "numb" and not as good compared to the regular the 997. Any thoughts on this? BTW, I really like GT ("purely Porsche") magazine and the writing of the brits!

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    That's right! No seriously, it's a matter of personal choice IMHO. Mine has Sport Chrono, PASM, and 19-in wheels; I can't tell the difference between mine and the S I test drove.

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    Yep, if you have the base 997 for sure you wont know how the S handles.

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    You're right. I'll never comprehend the 0.2 seconds I'm missing. LOL!!!!! Thanks man! I almost fell out of my chair laughing and spewed Scotch on my desk!

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Yep, if you have the base 997 for sure you wont know how the S handles.



    But the author of the article, a 997S owner, came to his conclusion after test driving his friend's regular 997. He liked his friend's base 997 better than his 997S! Have you driven a base 997 (I'm assuming you're a 997S owner)?


    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    No, I usually dont waste my time reading such articles that does not make sense.

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    I own a base w/chrono and 19's...It is only a hair slower at higher RPM's..that is the only difference I noticed........Not enough to make me plunk down the extra cash when what I really want soon is a GT3!!!

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    I've tried both a few hours and about 300km each. So just an opinion, no more...
    The "S" seemed subjectively a little more sporty and powerful, but I didn't measure anything.
    Objectively, however, there was a great difference : the exhaust sound of the "S" above 5000 rpm : absolutely delicious. You don't find that in the non "S".
    Finally, I ordered the "S", considering the pack of options and the power increase offered for a reasonable price.(10k Euro )

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    My 2 cents...

    This is an issue well discussed and analyzed to the bone at many many previous threads,with high participation i would admit.

    First of all,concerning GT Purely Porsche.

    Do not -please- transmit misunderstood information.

    The writter Chris,is a well known and respected journalist.

    He owns an 997S and after some months,his hands fall on a base 997 for press evaluation.

    His findings were not wrong or biased. BUT he said clearly many times that its not only the base model that is better than the S.
    IT IS THE BASE MODEL WITH PCCB's that is better.

    This was also debated in the past. PCCB's offer a lighter and more neutral feel due to reduced unspung weight. That is basically the reason the base 997 felt more "porsche" along with the softer suspension and the higher profile tires.
    Chris ,though reported that the S is a faster car.So dont be misleaded. He was talking about feel and character, judging that the base model is more of a porsche character.
    He also said that the base model would be a better choice in the UK that the roads do not give "space" to the S to show its power advantage.

    The basic reason this comparison was conducted was because the base model with PCCB's cost the same like the S version.

    So it was also a matter of distibution of money.

    In the next issue there was also -in the first pages- an article from a reader who understood and shared Chris opinion, so instead of buying an S he went for the base model with PCCB's which came almost to the same price.And he gave Chris some credit for offering his opinion.

    Now for the History.


    Chris-the reporter,mentioned also that the S is a more beautifull car and more stronger.
    Chris-again the reporter sold his 997 S and is now an owner of a 996 GT2 !!! as he said that the 997S did not gave him the primature impression he was searching for.The GT2 is undisputable a very genuine and wild machine.

    Me now i am an owner of the base model-for those who dont know yet.So dont say i m biased for thinking the S is the deal.

    As for the fact that the S does not have more power,i wont go into this its been discussed to much.....

    P.S Base model at the article had stock 997 suspension and not PASM,so in this thought and theory any base model with PASM-which is a very very good choice IMO-would be as bad as a 997S!!


    Spend no time comparing these two cars. They are different with many differences that cant be shown.Yes the 997S is quicker ,not much maybe 1-2 cars ahead.but it is quicker.

    "Are you going to race it?"

    A friend of mine who is totally impartial and barely interested in cars made the following comment. I was trying to decide on getting the S or the non-S. He read a few articles I sent to him and emailed me back saying, "Why get the S? Are you going to race it? I'm getting the S anyway but his comment is extremely sensible. I guess my decision is an emotional/irrational one.

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    well thats the most irrational comment i ever heard!!!
    I m really sorry man,but

    If you are not going to race it?????

    What question is that?then dont buy a Porsche either?Why do you buy it anyway? for the emotional driving factor or for the look?

    Go buy something else porsche is the other word for racing.

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    A friend of mine who is totally impartial and barely interested in cars made the following comment. I was trying to decide on getting the S or the non-S. He read a few articles I sent to him and emailed me back saying, "Why get the S? Are you going to race it? I'm getting the S anyway but his comment is extremely sensible. I guess my decision is an emotional/irrational one.



    LOL!!!! In all due respect (actually, naw, I'll just tell you my first honest instinct!!) Your friend is obviously a "car weenie". Ask him for advice the next time you're in the market for a new mini van, or dining room set...

    The word "sensible" and any $70,000-$90,000 sports car are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. Your 911 is an emotional purchase, so go with your gut and leave sensible to the dorks who think the power band in their wife's mini-van is "zippy"...

    That said, the differences between the standard 997 and the "S" are subtle, and either car is a great stand-alone car. But as it's been discussed here ad-nauseam, the group of options and upgrades you receive for the roughly $9,000 U.S. extra you pay for the "S" represents a good value (using the term "value" loosely) when you compare the aggregate costs of the individual options, even leaving out the bigger engine in the process. For your money you get PASM, upgraded brakes, 19" wheels, bi-xenon lamps, aluminum-look gauges, and sport steering wheel. That's alot of good stuff that you could easily desire, regardless of whether you're a horsepower junkie like I am. THEN, toss in the 3.8L motor, which does indeed deliver superior power, especially at the high end (anybody who says that they don't "miss" more horsepower when the butterflies are at full tilt needs their pulse checked), and you've got a super package. If the base car satisfies you enough that you don't wish to spend the extra dough, that's fine, I can understand that. But to say that you would only enjoy and apply the extra performance of the "S" on a racetrack is absolute weenie talk you would expect from a soccer mom driving a Range Rover, which is a far more absurd enigma. Yeah, right, as if you're just going to putt-putt around in your Porsche like an old lady on her way to the hair salon everywhere you go. It doesn't take a race track to enjoy the athleticism of a car, and it doesn't take sensitive instruments to detect the performance up-kick of the 3.8L. I noticed the extra pull the first time I swung a tester "S" through the tach range, it's easily perceptible, except maybe to those who find both to be faster than they've ever been used to, in which case you could understandably be blinded by adrenaline. I find that to be the most common case when people say "it's fast enough". That means that the car is fast enough for them. That's a personal thing. For me, I wish the "S" were faster, but it's the top dog that I could get in a 997, I didn't want a 996 turbo, so I'm pleased with what I've got. In the 1/4 mile (0-60mph, or 0-100kmh, isn't worth talking about unless you're comparing Honda Civics), you'll actually get .4-.5 tenths out of the S, which to a lifelong dragracer like me, is ALOT, and easy to feel in the seat. One tenth equals one car length in the 1/4, general rule.

    Like I said, go with your gut, and take all that "sensible" advice and toss it into the circular file...

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    A friend of mine who is totally impartial and barely interested in cars made the following comment. I was trying to decide on getting the S or the non-S. He read a few articles I sent to him and emailed me back saying, "Why get the S? Are you going to race it? I'm getting the S anyway but his comment is extremely sensible. I guess my decision is an emotional/irrational one.



    I think your first sentence says it all..

    "A friend of mine who is totally impartial and barely interested in cars made the following comment"

    I don't think you need to race the S in order to enjoy the performance gains. Somebody that is "BARELY INTERESTED IN CARS" wouldn't undertand that.

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    There are so many threads about that story...
    If you can't make up your mind what you ought to go for then stop reading immediately.

    BTW Chris Harris is a well respecred driver among british community and have been in many types of racing (cup, sideways challenge, Peugeot diesel cup) so it's easy for him to capture the slightest differences between C2 and C2S.
    Sorry to say that, but I don't think that many drivers will spot these details...

    C2S is a little faster and better equiped.

    C2 WITH ceramics cost the same but it's more involving.

    But after all how many drivers are ready for involvment in an era where PSM rules?

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    BTW Chris Harris is a well respecred driver among british community and have been in many types of racing (cup, sideways challenge, Peugeot diesel cup) so it's easy for him to capture the slightest differences between C2 and C2S.
    Sorry to say that, but I don't think that many drivers will spot these details...



    Guess everyone's different but I noticed big differences within minutes inside the cabin. Even BEFORE I stepped in the cabin when I heard the different engines.

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    And the differences would be slightly heavier, center of gravity slightly more toward the rear, and a self-adjustig clutch (plus some options like PASM, Chrono, and 19in wheels, ahem, which I have ) thrown in. Oh and I almost forgot the 0.2 sec better time in the 0-100 kph run. Oh my God, it's like another car (NOT)! Hahahaha! I love you guys!

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    I'm quite surprised nobody talks about the exhaust noise of the "S" above 5000 rpm.
    Don't you appreciate it ?
    Believe me : there's a significant difference between the two models. Maybe not in terms of performance, but performance isn't the only source of drive enjoyment, I guess.

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    cartouche said:
    I'm quite surprised nobody talks about the exhaust noise of the "S" above 5000 rpm.
    Don't you appreciate it ?
    Believe me : there's a significant difference between the two models. Maybe not in terms of performance, but performance isn't the only source of drive enjoyment, I guess.



    It sounded the same to me at 5k rpm. Really, I swear. Maybe I'm tone-deaf?

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    or maybe am I hyperaesthesic ?

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    well if the noise was the difference........then go for PSE and sleep well!! Noise is nothing when a PSE is on the way!

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    Stradale said:
    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    BTW Chris Harris is a well respecred driver among british community and have been in many types of racing (cup, sideways challenge, Peugeot diesel cup) so it's easy for him to capture the slightest differences between C2 and C2S.
    Sorry to say that, but I don't think that many drivers will spot these details...



    Guess everyone's different but I noticed big differences within minutes inside the cabin. Even BEFORE I stepped in the cabin when I heard the different engines.



    Stradale, i believe that Zoltan was not only refering to the difference between C2 and C2S but the difference between C2 with PCCB's and C2S

    And thats something that requires a certain driving knowledge to identify weight difference at the four edjes of the car due to reduced unspung weight.Moreover,it requires some pushing the car maybe in the track

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Dear non S owners,
    The hyperacousic [censored] wishes you good night

    PS : the noise IS a difference

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    A few insights:

    - Just 10k gives you 3.8l engine, -20mm/PASM, 19" wheels, bi-xenons, sport wheel, Turbo brakes, better exhaust sound... so if you put PASM/Xenons/19"wheel on the base 997 to close the gap to the 997S this will mean spending already 5k and without even the option of the 3.8l engine and brakes... just 5k more and you get the 997S. And just slapping PCCB's will not compensate for all the 997S advantages/options you loose, and turn the 997 into a GT3 by just reducing some unsprung weight I would suggest to get the -20mm and save your money...

    - The 997 offers no significant performance advantage over the older 996C2 it replaces. Something important for those coming from a 996.

    - The 997 performance may be adecuate now but is going to be eaten up by the upcomming Cayman S' performance when it comes out.

    - When the facelift power increase arrives in a couple of years the current base 997s performanhce is even going to get more behind and obvious.

    - My feeling is that the base 997 will be dropped of the model line later on.

    - The 997 may not get all the sport upgrades that may become available like PSE, powerkit, etc.

    - As to performance, lets look at more objective facts, the 997 is only 2 seconds faster than the 6 year old 300HP 996C2 on the 20km long nurburgring track, yet the 997S is a whole 13-16 seconds faster! (depending on PASM or -20mm) so that settles the silly comparison between the handling, power and braking differences between the two.

    The bottom line, they are both great options, the base 997 only advantage is that its more economical, and the performance and options of the 997S will cost you $, so just depends one were your personal balance of the "performance you are going to get out of the car" and "money you are willing to spend" are. Get what best for you.

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    im happy with my base with pasm

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    Dilinger said:
    Quote:
    Stradale said:
    Quote:
    zoltan said:
    BTW Chris Harris is a well respecred driver among british community and have been in many types of racing (cup, sideways challenge, Peugeot diesel cup) so it's easy for him to capture the slightest differences between C2 and C2S.
    Sorry to say that, but I don't think that many drivers will spot these details...



    Guess everyone's different but I noticed big differences within minutes inside the cabin. Even BEFORE I stepped in the cabin when I heard the different engines.



    Stradale, i believe that Zoltan was not only refering to the difference between C2 and C2S but the difference between C2 with PCCB's and C2S

    And thats something that requires a certain driving knowledge to identify weight difference at the four edjes of the car due to reduced unspung weight.Moreover,it requires some pushing the car maybe in the track



    I wasn't replying to zoltan I was replying to MMD.

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    Oh and I almost forgot the 0.2 sec better time in the 0-100 kph run. Oh my God, it's like another car (NOT)! Hahahaha! I love you guys!



    Holminator, oh worthy adversary, must I repeat myself?? I said:

    Quote:
    In the 1/4 mile (0-60mph, or 0-100kmh, isn't worth talking about unless you're comparing Honda Civics), you'll actually get .4-.5 tenths out of the S, which to a lifelong dragracer like me, is ALOT, and easy to feel in the seat. One tenth equals one car length in the 1/4, general rule.



    So, unless you want to discuss 2-tenth differences between motor scooters or skate boards, please don't bore us with 0-100 kmh times. When you're comparing cars of this power and ability, 0-100 kmh is the same as conducting a 5 meter dash in the Olympics. Furthermore, I feel that Carlos REALLY put the cherry on the sundae when he said:

    Quote:
    As to performance, lets look at more objective facts, the 997 is only 2 seconds faster than the 6 year old 300HP 996C2 on the 20km long nurburgring track, yet the 997S is a whole 13-16 seconds faster! (depending on PASM or -20mm) so that settles the silly comparison between the handling, power and braking differences between the two.



    Case closed... I SENTENCE YOU....TO.......THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!!!!!!!

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    guys get serious......dont get on each other!!

    different needs different priorities,differerent drivers and in the middle me who just cant afford the IRS otherwise i d be on my way to the turbo

    I think you need to understand Chris Harris

    He bought my old 911 Club Sport some years ago and I think that reflects his taste. His latest purchase seems to reflect that too. In comparison the current 997s are a different breed of car entirely, more "GT". I would never have imagined in my earlier years that a 911 would come complete with a built-in garage door opener. In those days I thought electric windows were an unnecessary luxury item and a sunroof was for "cruisers".
    Maybe a non-S with PCCB was the closest he could get to the feel of those simpler days with today's 997.

    Re: WTF- 997 better than 997S???

    Well for what its worth..

    I went to test drive the S and it had a flat yre. So the dealer offered me the straight 997 as I had driven to see him. I drove that car for about an hour.

    I was left hoping that the 'S' would have enough more excitement about it to make me want one. I test drove the 'S' a week later and ordered one. Had the 'S' not existed, I would not have ordered the car.

    Neither Standard or 'S' felt fast. But the S felt fast enough and had enough extra sparkle to make me want one.

    One thing I do remember is I really liked the standard clutch. The S clutch didnt feel as pleasant! Odd!

    ..Add

    Re: "Are you going to race it?"

    Quote:
    cartouche said:
    Dear non S owners,
    The hyperacousic [censored] wishes you good night

    PS : the noise IS a difference



    Maybe I need to clean the wax out of my ear, ay? Curious, anybody debadge the S version? Hahahaha! I crack myself up.

    To the Boss, it's cool. Pax tecum! <Holminator quickly realizing that he is outnumbered by S owners in this forum ducks his head and seeks cover>

     
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