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    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    bluelines:
    Gnil:
    Gladstone:

    Yes, the upside down thing makes me want to chuck: but the PDK (this is version 2) I hadn't really listened to careflully before.  It convinces me that a qualified manual tranaxle driver will outperform PDK.

    Let's wait until we can get the same number of gear ratios in the same car with the same setup on the same track on the same day: and then we can all see.

    No professional driver has been faster with the manual then with PDK. It is impossible to shift as fast as the computer does .

    It is even mechanically "impossible" due to the PDK design with dual clutches and alternating gears. A traditional manual gearbox and clutch need to perform more steps to change gear (even if it was controlled by a computer). The PDK only needs to move the clutch plates (disengage/engage) which it can do in parallel and hence shifting is instantaneous. Only Superman could be that quick with a manual Smiley

    Yes, that was pretty dumb on my part.  Smiley   What I should simply say is that I really don't care for the sound of PDK when launch control is used and even in normal operation; I prefer the sound of a manual transmission.

    I understand that it is all about efficiency and speed, but there are still car sounds that I prefer.

    Mechanical lifters over hydraulic lifters --  carbuerators over fuel injection -- air cooled over water cooled engines -- glass pack mufflers over far better exhaust systems.

    After a few more viewings of the video, I will admit that the upside down camera angle is growing more favorable than when first viewed.


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    + 1 on the sound of air cooled engines especially at hight RPMs.

    -1 on the sound of mechanical lifters, If you could hear them they were saying: "tick tick, adjust me".  Doing that a couple times a year is something I don't miss one bit )although it did offer excuse for new gaskets and a few months of no oil weeps). 


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Awesome review Carlos!  I know the car you tested did not have PDCC, has somebody driven one? Is it worth it ?


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    I live in a prosperous U.S. metropolitan city, and also recently traveled for almost three weeks in France and Switzerland.  I have not seen a single new 991 on the streets.  I have seen Porsche's 991 sales figures and I also know the cars have been available at dealers for only a few months, but I remain a bit puzzled.  Anybody seen many 991s on the street, and if so could you post some pics?  Thanks...


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    The latest issue of Excellence tested a 991S with PDCC and they did not like it...they recommended against it....they felt that too much handling feel and driver involvement is lost


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Wonderbar:

    I live in a prosperous U.S. metropolitan city, and also recently traveled for almost three weeks in France and Switzerland.  I have not seen a single new 991 on the streets.  I have seen Porsche's 991 sales figures and I also know the cars have been available at dealers for only a few months, but I remain a bit puzzled.  Anybody seen many 991s on the street, and if so could you post some pics?  Thanks...

    Starting to see a few on the streets in Zürich and there are usually two parked down the street from where I live. The 997 is a lot more common though, but it was the same when the 997 was released. The first year I did not see to many, now they are everywhere Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Before selecting my car - Carrera S, PASM Sport, without PDCC- I drove one with it and decided that it was not needed. I had not driven fast enough to understand what it did and was concerned about the reported "unnatural" feel. No problem as my car exceeded every expectation.

    Last week at a Porsche Word Tour event I tracked a car just like mine back to back with a Carrera with the standard suspension- and found my setup (bit lower, bit stiffer) noticeably better in high speed turns. Then I drove a Panamera GTS with PASM Sport and PDCC, chasing the pro. He took off and blasted through turns at absurd speeds. So I followed his lines and if there was any unnatural feel I totally missed it in my panic and relief at making it through turn after turn at the rate we were going. Works as advertised for sure! I felt faster in my car, and really love the feel - but have to admit I am sure it would be even faster with the dynamic roll stiffness tuning of PDCC.

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Hello!

    I put an order on my car with a reasonable deposit. the car is scheduled for november production and will be delivered in january 2013. 

    My dealer mentioned that i could still change the order until locking it in September.

     

    these are the specs on the car

    White. 911 on the back. parking sensors. porsche classic wheels with coloured porsche crests.folding mirrors. 

    Dynamic lights in black( its an option available for australian market)

    PDK. SPORTS CHRONO. SPORT EXHAUST. POWER STEERING PLUS.

    Black leather interior 14 way seats. porsche crest on head rests. paddle shifters

    Bose system( no cost option on australia)

    I am thinking of the following changes and would appreciate any input and advise 

    1. changing the colour to platinum silver and deleting the black dynamic head lights just dynamic lights in their factory colour .

    2.getting the steering wheel with multifunctions. i sold my carrera 4s 2010 to the dealer and it has multifunction steering wheel and currently i got a golf gti with multifunction steering wheel. i am so used to it and starred getting worried about loosing that functionality. how do you change menus on the screen in front  of you ? is it worth keeping paddle shifters and adding voice control?

    i really like the look of the steering wheel with paddle shifters . if i have to change it multifunction then i might choose the steering wheel with carbon ( its an option combined with heated steering wheel)

    3. SPASM.... is it worth adding the 20 mm lower suspension . my dealer is not encouraging me to add it.

     

    4. having the whole lot on the back 911 carrera s . i wish there is an option of only carrera s.

     

    Any feedback would be much appreciated 

    Once i lock the order in September there will be no room for me to change anything .

     

     

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

     

    Hello!

    I put an order on my car with a reasonable deposit. the car is scheduled for november production and will be delivered in january 2013. 

    My dealer mentioned that i could still change the order until locking it in September.

     

    these are the specs on the car

    White. 911 on the back. parking sensors. porsche classic wheels with coloured porsche crests.folding mirrors. 

    Dynamic lights in black( its an option available for australian market)

    PDK. SPORTS CHRONO. SPORT EXHAUST. POWER STEERING PLUS.

    Black leather interior 14 way seats. porsche crest on head rests. paddle shifters

    Bose system( no cost option on australia)

    I am thinking of the following changes and would appreciate any input and advise 

    1. changing the colour to platinum silver and deleting the black dynamic head lights just dynamic lights in their factory colour .

    2.getting the steering wheel with multifunctions. i sold my carrera 4s 2010 to the dealer and it has multifunction steering wheel and currently i got a golf gti with multifunction steering wheel. i am so used to it and starred getting worried about loosing that functionality. how do you change menus on the screen in front  of you ? is it worth keeping paddle shifters and adding voice control?

    i really like the look of the steering wheel with paddle shifters . if i have to change it multifunction then i might choose the steering wheel with carbon ( its an option combined with heated steering wheel)

    3. SPASM.... is it worth adding the 20 mm lower suspension . my dealer is not encouraging me to add it.

     

    4. having the whole lot on the back 911 carrera s . i wish there is an option of only carrera s.

     

    Any feedback would be much appreciated 

    Once i lock the order in September there will be no room for me to change anything .

     

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    IHello!

    I put an order on my car with a reasonable deposit. the car is scheduled for november production and will be delivered in january 2013. 

    My dealer mentioned that i could still change the order until locking it in September.

     

    these are the specs on the car

    White. 911 on the back. parking sensors. porsche classic wheels with coloured porsche crests.folding mirrors. 

    Dynamic lights in black( its an option available for australian market)

    PDK. SPORTS CHRONO. SPORT EXHAUST. POWER STEERING PLUS.

    Black leather interior 14 way seats. porsche crest on head rests. paddle shifters

    Bose system( no cost option on australia)

    I am thinking of the following changes and would appreciate any input and advise 

    1. changing the colour to platinum silver and deleting the black dynamic head lights just dynamic lights in their factory colour .

    2.getting the steering wheel with multifunctions. i sold my carrera 4s 2010 to the dealer and it has multifunction steering wheel and currently i got a golf gti with multifunction steering wheel. i am so used to it and starred getting worried about loosing that functionality. how do you change menus on the screen in front  of you ? is it worth keeping paddle shifters and adding voice control?

    i really like the look of the steering wheel with paddle shifters . if i have to change it multifunction then i might choose the steering wheel with carbon ( its an option combined with heated steering wheel)

    3. SPASM.... is it worth adding the 20 mm lower suspension . my dealer is not encouraging me to add it.

     

    4. having the whole lot on the back 911 carrera s . i wish there is an option of only carrera s.

    5. Is it worth adding adaptive  18 way seats ?

     

    Any feedback would be much appreciated 

    Once i lock the order in September there will be no room for me to change anything .

     

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    FORGOT THE SUNROOF .. I ORDERED IT IN METAL .. ANY THOUGHTS OF TE GLASS SUNROOF WITH WHITE OR PLATINIUM SILVER?


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Many of the things you list are matters of personal taste and you should get what you enjoy.

    The white cars I have seen look great, but I have Platinum Silver w black interior and love the "classic"  look it has. I saw a black car with black (or dark dark gray) anodized looking Carrera classic wheels. They are really nice and wouldn't  show brake dust. They would really set of a white or silver car and look unique.

    Of the things you have listed, I would delete power steering plus as the normal power steering is fine at slow speeds. Most testers dislike it. I have the standard seats and they are pretty good. My car (from dealer stock) came with ventilated seats and while I never would have ordered them, I will now will never have another car without them. Had I ordered a car I would have gotten the sports seats- they fit me best. 

    I very much enjoy PASM Sport for the feel resulting from the lower center of gravity, shorter stiffer springs and heavier sway bars. It is still more supple than prior 911s. Moreover, with 5mm spacers, the 20s fill the wheel wells nicely.  You need to drive a car with it to decide if it is worth it to you. Most people won't notice or miss it, but to me it rally returns the best of the classic Porsche feel with none of the classic issues of a relatively short wheelbase and compromised suspension geometry.

    i too think the sport steering wheel is the best looking one - the aluminum complements the aluminum trim on the dash and doors with full leather.- and paddles are nice- but after you get used to the buttons they do the job just as well, so the convenience of the multifunction wheel might be worth it if you don't like reach to tinker with settings. Changing to the Sport wheel is one mod I may make for the look and the paddles!

    Some people really hate the sunroof. No doubt it IS ugly- but just from the outside and I don't see it when I am driving!  I use mine a lot and like the way the pop up back combines with the dash top air vents (which have several settings) for good gentle flow, windows up or down. II would go for glass if was available. I think that the panels in front and behind it get painted black, which would be striking with a white or silver car, but personally I like the same color all over look.


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Thanks

     

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    i edited after seeing your sunroof question  lol


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Wonderbar:

    I live in a prosperous U.S. metropolitan city, and also recently traveled for almost three weeks in France and Switzerland.  I have not seen a single new 991 on the streets.  I have seen Porsche's 991 sales figures and I also know the cars have been available at dealers for only a few months, but I remain a bit puzzled.  Anybody seen many 991s on the street, and if so could you post some pics?  Thanks...

    yup swiss are waiting for the 4S which are more popular here because of the high level of precipitation all year round


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    ^^^
    Nice build!!!

    1.- I Have a white but would do Platinum silver next time, beautiful color and looks great with your choice of wheels. White looks good too but I dont like the new white for 2013, same white in the Cayenne since 2012,, it is "too white", washer/dryer white. Carrera white with it's slight gray hint in it is not avaliable anymore. I like the classic sporty elegance of silver in the 991, shows the lines just perfect, but that's a matter of personal preference.

    2.- Get the Sport Design wheel, paddles are a must for your PDK car, it looks and feels sportier because it's thicker. FYI, you get a stalk by the side of the steering wheel that allows you to navigate through the PCM menus without taking your hands off the steering, it's not that intuitive but works great, the only thing you can't do is adjust the volume level, other than that you'll be able to select menus, tracks, answers phone calls, make calls, navigate through your directory etc.

    3.- The car is very firm as is, with SPASM its a lot firmer, not harsh but firmer. If you intend to track it in a regular basis then get it. For a DD, not necessary. The STD 10mm lower ride height with regular PASM looks good.

    4.- I like the 911 model designation without the Carrera S, cleaner looking and less busy, thats what I have.

    5.- Adaptive seats are awesome but I didn't get them. I like the regular sport seats, much better than in the 997 and easier to get in and out of the car without the high bolsters.

    Ohh and dump the Power Steering Plus, it' feels over boosted at lower speeds, I don't like that in a sports car, maybe in a big sedan or SUV.
    I don't like the metal sunroof design and almost never use it, but a car at this price point should have one. I am afraid that the glass roof with its retractable mesh cover will not do the job protecting my head from the sun and keeping it cool. I have the Pano roof in my Cayenne and I hate it. I can see and feel the sun through it.

    Hope that helps and enjoy the process of optioning your car, thats part of the fun.

    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Hey 

    Thanks a lot , that was very helpful and informative.

    Cheers


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    +1 re what Galion said.

    Platinum Silver looks like it is carved out of a solid billet, just like it feels. And, if you get full leather, the sport steering wheel aluminum center really works with the door aluminum trim to pull everything together in classic Porsche design (cum Apple). 

    RE PASM Sport  - I like the way the 20 in wheels fill the wells (esp with 5mm spacers) and takes the car more to the sport end of its broad range of its broad capabilities. 


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Very nice accolades for the new 911.

    Won against some very formidable competitors in a category that matters the most: Best Driver's Car.

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    dxpetrov:

    Very nice accolades for the new 911.

    Won against some very formidable competitors in a category that matters the most: Best Driver's Car.

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/

    Repeating your post, only adding video:)

     

     

     

     


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    kudryavchik:
    dxpetrov:

    Very nice accolades for the new 911.

    Won against some very formidable competitors in a category that matters the most: Best Driver's Car.

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/

    Repeating your post, only adding video:)

     

     


    --

    sportcars-history.com

     

     

     

     

    Smiley

    Smiley

     

    More great stuff for read.This time about Porsche's decision and background story of their switch to electro-mechanical steering:

    http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26213

    Enjoy.

     

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    dxpetrov:
    kudryavchik:
    dxpetrov:

    Very nice accolades for the new 911.

    Won against some very formidable competitors in a category that matters the most: Best Driver's Car.

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1208_2012_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/

    Repeating your post, only adding video:)

     

     


    --

    sportcars-history.com

     

     

     

     

    Smiley

    Smiley

     

    More great stuff for read.This time about Porsche's decision and background story of their switch to electro-mechanical steering:

    http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26213

    Enjoy.

     

     

    SmileySmiley


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Having driven the 991 C2S for a whole week-end, I honestly don't think it beats my current 997.2 GTS in any aspect of performance or driver enjoyment.

    Maybe the sound is a notch higher but that's all and, even then, it's manufactured!!  The GTS is more than equal in every other element and I'm pretty sure that the, so-called, PDK mark 2 was already introduced in this car prior to the launch of the 991!!

    I also prefer the non-Panamera interior in a true sports car.  Suffice to say, I won't be tempted to move to the 991 merely because it's a later model...enlightened

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    John, I join you on your impressions. Even I find the difference between my PDK and the PDK 991 not that much different . Sometimes I wonder if it is not a bit in the head of the journalist , as they had to complain when PDK got on the market and now that it is ' the norm' , they just think it's great .

    And as time goes by, I actually get less and less exited about the 991 . I think they made a mistake with that car, by wanting to make it more ' elegant, refined, confortable' . And it does not suit the 911.  Of course the car is faster and '' better'' , but it lost also the simplicity of a classic 911 ( re interior, outside shape ) . 

    I am realy not sure how well it is selling. I do not see that many around and usually , in my area,  you see quickly the new cars on the road .

    When I do see one, I do not get the ' woaw' factor. Actually I always think about AM when I see one .

    I bet that the 991 will be , in history, like the 996 . A big step forward, but a wrong car. 992 will probably be a better looking car .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    I fully agree with John and Gnil. kiss

    The 991 is a nice car and if you are looking for a new Porsche, you can't go wrong ordering one. Especially as a cabrio it looks beautiful. But if you got a 997.2 no matter which model, there is absolutely no need to change. (Different than in case of the new Boxster: 981 wins hands down). I even think the interior of the 997 is better than the new one. For me the 997 is already a classic 911 like the 993 or the G-model.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    Rossi:

    I fully agree with John and Gnil. kiss

    The 991 is a nice car and if you are looking for a new Porsche, you can't go wrong ordering one. Especially as a cabrio it looks beautiful. But if you got a 997.2 no matter which model, there is absolutely no need to change. (Different than in case of the new Boxster: 981 wins hands down). I even think the interior of the 997 is better than the new one. For me the 997 is already a classic 911 like the 993 or the G-model.

    +1 Smiley


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    The 991 is a better car than the 997.2 and hugely better than 997.1. Actually, the 997.1 is the only Porsche that had been eclipsed by its facelifted model, the 997.2. (PDK, free revving DFI, better PASM, nicer interior, ventilated seats etc).

    I agree that the 991 wouldn't readily tempt a 997.2 owner, especially If he drives PDK, but this is a reflection of how perfect 911 the 997.2 ( a real future classic) is rather than a deficiency in the new model. I don't agree that the 991 is the new 996, if this is mentioned in a derogatory way. 

    The main drawback of the 991 is that it has become expensive for a 997.2 owner to exchange, given that the driving experience is not greatly different. I think that the 911 has reached its peak of development given the required parameters. The emphasis from now on will be on economy and emissions. The levels of performance and comfort of the 991 are already top class.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    reginos:

    The 991 is a better car than the 997.2 and hugely better than 997.1. Actually, the 997.1 is the only Porsche that had been eclipsed by its facelifted model, the 997.2. (PDK, free revving DFI, better PASM, nicer interior, ventilated seats etc).

    I agree that the 991 wouldn't readily tempt a 997.2 owner, especially If he drives PDK, but this is a reflection of how perfect 911 the 997.2 ( a real future classic) is rather than a deficiency in the new model. I don't agree that the 991 is the new 996, if this is mentioned in a derogatory way. 

    The main drawback of the 991 is that it has become expensive for a 997.2 owner to exchange, given that the driving experience is not greatly different. I think that the 911 has reached its peak of development given the required parameters. The emphasis from now on will be on economy and emissions. The levels of performance and comfort of the 991 are already top class.

    Yes, and only when you compare 997.2 GTS with it. Compared to a regular 997.2 S, the 991 S is from another planet. Everyone seems to forget that all the time.

     


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    I don't agree that the GTS is materially superior to the S. A good value for money yes, as any end of the line special is expected to be. The areas where the 991 is superior to the the 997.2 S is also superior to the GTS. But in both cases not so much better as to spend the extra cash.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: ROAD-TEST: New 991 CarreraS

    reginos:

    I don't agree that the GTS is materially superior to the S. A good value for money yes, as any end of the line special is expected to be. The areas where the 991 is superior to the the 997.2 S is also superior to the GTS. But in both cases not so much better as to spend the extra cash.


    Exactly. There's nothing in a GTS that you couldn't have in a Standard S, but you had to spend more money. And in both cases - at least for me - the 997 still has its charm.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
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