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    Dec 30, 2006 3:26:15 AM

    bodysurfer
    Newbie
    bodysurfer
    Loc: socal
    Posts: 21, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 19, 2005

    engine failure

    i own an 05 c2s,40,740 miles,one autocross, all service performed timely at dealer i purchased car new from. go'n 60 mph+- on 55 fwy ( california.) looked in my rear view mirrow and saw a large puff of blue exhaust smoke. engine froze. it's been 24 hours since event. dealer tells me they have engine out and they are inspecting same and will get back to me. i'll keep you guys posted as to how this issue is resolved. i have enjoyed this website since i have owned this car and have learned much. happy new year... later

    Dec 30, 2006 5:39:01 AM

    Puffy911
    Pilot
    Puffy911
    Loc: Denver, Colorado, USA
    Posts: 474, Gallery
    Registered on: May 29, 2006
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    I wonder if you are the record holder? That is, you registered for your account on Rennteam in October of 2005 and made your first post today December 29, 2006! 1 year and 2 months... Wow!

    Sorry to hear about your engine problems. I've read here on Rennteam that having an engine replaced by Porsche is not necessarily a bad thing. Supposedly the car is built such that it is fairly easy (and possibly routine) to swap an engine.

    Keep us posted on what transpires.

    Dec 30, 2006 2:11:49 PM

    percymon
    Senior
    percymon
    Loc: Chester
    Posts: 765, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 23, 2005
    Reply to: Puffy911

    Re: engine failure

    An engine change will do you no harm whatsoever, and it should be hassle free as you are the right side of the Atlantic.

    Be interesting to hear what the root cause was

    Dec 30, 2006 3:24:13 PM

    kennys001
    Junior
    kennys001
    Loc: near Boston, MA USA
    Posts: 62, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 27, 2006
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    Sorry to hear about your P car issue, but thanks for keeping us up to date. As I am a total novice here, I can't really say anything bad, but what I want to say is why were going 60 in 55 mph zone? Do you have as many speeding tickets as me??? Just kidding. Please keep us posted on how the dealer handles this issue and best of luck with the problem. Happy New Year.

    Cheers,

    Kenny S

    Dec 30, 2006 3:37:04 PM

    Circe
    Co-Pilot
    Circe
    Loc: NH, USA
    Posts: 157, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 26, 2005
    Reply to: kennys001

    Re: engine failure

    Sorry to hear of the engine problem. I agree with percymon. As you are inside the 4 year 50,000 mile warranty period, should you require a completely new engine, the cost should be borne by Porsche, and that's a good thing. Hopefully the issue will be resolved to your complete satisfaction. Please keep us apprised.

    Good luck.

    Dec 30, 2006 5:34:20 PM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: Circe

    Re: engine failure

    You get a replacement engine, no major repairs are done to engines, the "blown" one goes to Germany for anaylsis. Porsche will tell no one about what went wrong with it. You got 40K miles "free" AND I hear new engine comes with a full _new_ four year warrenty (car warrenty will run out as scheduled). There have been some questions as to wether your "new" engine is actually new; it may be reconditioned (NOT used). Will be as good as new but some parts will be from earlier "blown" engines. Then you have the problem of your numbers not matching up?

    So ask dealer/svc:

    new or reconditioned new engine?
    numbers match?
    four-year warrenty?

    After 40K miles I'd be happy; with fewer, (like 2-4000) I'd be a bit peeved.

    Dec 30, 2006 7:14:55 PM

    bodysurfer
    Newbie
    bodysurfer
    Loc: socal
    Posts: 21, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 19, 2005
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: engine failure

    thanks for your reassuring comments. my wife told me to snap out of it ,(bad mood). i'm trying.

    Dec 30, 2006 8:29:25 PM

    chrisNY
    Co-Pilot
    chrisNY
    Loc: Long Island
    Posts: 196, Gallery
    Registered on: May 24, 2006
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    You get a replacement engine, no major repairs are done to engines, the "blown" one goes to Germany for anaylsis. Porsche will tell no one about what went wrong with it. You got 40K miles "free" AND I hear new engine comes with a full _new_ four year warrenty (car warrenty will run out as scheduled). There have been some questions as to wether your "new" engine is actually new; it may be reconditioned (NOT used). Will be as good as new but some parts will be from earlier "blown" engines. Then you have the problem of your numbers not matching up?

    So ask dealer/svc:

    new or reconditioned new engine?
    numbers match?
    four-year warrenty?

    After 40K miles I'd be happy; with fewer, (like 2-4000) I'd be a bit peeved.



    It's amazing how low our standards have become with regards to how many miles we get out of an engine. You're not saying a life expectancy for an engine of 40K miles is good, are you?

    Dec 30, 2006 9:24:47 PM

    TulsaTurbo
    Co-Pilot
    TulsaTurbo
    Loc: Oklahoma, USA
    Posts: 284, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 24, 2006
    Reply to: chrisNY

    Re: engine failure

    I think that he is saying that to lose an engine at say 4000 miles is a real bummer; but, to lose one at 40,000 miles is not such a bad deal because you end up with a brand new engine (paid for by Porsch under warrantee) I think we all expect engines to last much longer, but if you have to lose an engine, best to do so right before warranttee expires!

    Dec 30, 2006 9:36:18 PM

    vtrader
    Veteran
    vtrader
    Loc: Los Angeles
    Posts: 1085, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 6, 2004
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    bodysurfer said:
    i own an 05 c2s,40,740 miles,one autocross, all service performed timely at dealer i purchased car new from. go'n 60 mph+- on 55 fwy ( california.) looked in my rear view mirrow and saw a large puff of blue exhaust smoke. engine froze. it's been 24 hours since event. dealer tells me they have engine out and they are inspecting same and will get back to me. i'll keep you guys posted as to how this issue is resolved. i have enjoyed this website since i have owned this car and have learned much. happy new year... later



    Mine blew on a Friday and I had a new engine and car by Monday night. Given that Monday is a holiday your dealer should have ordered a new engine on Friday so you can have the car by Tuesday night.

    Dec 31, 2006 3:58:44 AM

    BlackSparrow
    Pilot
    BlackSparrow
    Loc: Bahamas , Bahamas
    Posts: 424, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 28, 2006
    Reply to: vtrader

    Re: engine failure

    It would be amazing to get a new engine after 40k miles If you're planning to keep the car it is "free miles", but I assume that the fact that the engine was replaced will lower the resale value though

    Dec 31, 2006 4:07:54 AM

    Leawood911
    Rennteam VIP
    Leawood911
    Loc: Kansas, USA , United States
    Posts: 6894, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 29, 2006
    Reply to: BlackSparrow

    Re: engine failure

    Crap - I'm up to 42K in my '05 C2S. Anytime now I guess... I would hate to have it go at 51K!

    Dec 31, 2006 4:12:57 AM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: chrisNY

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    chrisNY said:


    It's amazing how low our standards have become with regards to how many miles we get out of an engine. You're not saying a life expectancy for an engine of 40K miles is good, are you?



    Tulsa Turbo is correct. Better to have had your fun with 40K "free miles" than 4K.

    Especially considering that the car is "never the same" once the engine is removed/replaced at the dealership. IOW, I LIKE the German technicians installing my engine at the factory and like it best when it is done once and only once.

    So to have the car "molested" by a mere dealer technician at 40K miles is more tolerable than having it molested at 4K.




    Dec 31, 2006 5:08:49 PM

    chrisNY
    Co-Pilot
    chrisNY
    Loc: Long Island
    Posts: 196, Gallery
    Registered on: May 24, 2006
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    chrisNY said:


    It's amazing how low our standards have become with regards to how many miles we get out of an engine. You're not saying a life expectancy for an engine of 40K miles is good, are you?



    Tulsa Turbo is correct. Better to have had your fun with 40K "free miles" than 4K.

    Especially considering that the car is "never the same" once the engine is removed/replaced at the dealership. IOW, I LIKE the German technicians installing my engine at the factory and like it best when it is done once and only once.

    So to have the car "molested" by a mere dealer technician at 40K miles is more tolerable than having it molested at 4K.








    OK, gotcha

    Jan 2, 2007 9:19:18 PM

    bodysurfer
    Newbie
    bodysurfer
    Loc: socal
    Posts: 21, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 19, 2005
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    update; newport auto ctr. denied my warranty claim. they said i had 6 type 1 overevs. 4 were not that bad one should have destroyed the engine and the other was pretty bas as well. i guess i don't deserve to have this claim honered but i am go'n to move up the chain of command and hope i can find a simpathetic ear to a porsche lover.abuser.

    Jan 2, 2007 9:21:37 PM

    Puffy911
    Pilot
    Puffy911
    Loc: Denver, Colorado, USA
    Posts: 474, Gallery
    Registered on: May 29, 2006
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    What is Porsche's definition of a "Type 1" over rev?

    Jan 2, 2007 9:55:39 PM

    Circe
    Co-Pilot
    Circe
    Loc: NH, USA
    Posts: 157, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 26, 2005
    Reply to: Puffy911

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    Puffy911 said:
    What is Porsche's definition of a "Type 1" over rev?



    Good question. How can this be? Clearly I'm no "wrench" but still want to ask, doesn't the rev limiter prevent over-revving?

    Jan 2, 2007 10:04:02 PM

    Circe
    Co-Pilot
    Circe
    Loc: NH, USA
    Posts: 157, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 26, 2005
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    bodysurfer said:
    update; newport auto ctr. denied my warranty claim. they said i had 6 type 1 overevs. 4 were not that bad one should have destroyed the engine and the other was pretty bas as well. i guess i don't deserve to have this claim honered but i am go'n to move up the chain of command and hope i can find a simpathetic ear to a porsche lover.abuser.



    Sorry to hear the bad news. Keep pushing, don't give up. Is there no failsafe to prevent over revving? As a final position you may want to consider broaching a compromise cost sharing if all else fails. Good luck.

    Jan 2, 2007 10:07:10 PM

    sws1
    Junior
    sws1
    Loc: USA
    Posts: 83, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 2, 2006
    Reply to: Puffy911

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    Puffy911 said:
    What is Porsche's definition of a "Type 1" over rev?



    TYPE 1
    These are when you bump the rev-limiter

    TYPE 2
    These are mechanical over-revs (ie: a missed shift or wrong gear selected) and are the nasty ones which will void your warantee.

    Breakdown of type 2:

    Number of ignitions, range 1-RPM Range 7,300-7,500
    Number of ignitions, range 2-RPM Range 7,500-7,700
    Number of ignitions, range 3-RPM Range 7,700-7,900
    Number of ignitions, range 4-RPM Range 7,900-8,400 (Some damage)
    Number of ignitions, range 5-RPM Range 8,400-9,500 (Damage)
    Number of ignitions, range 6-RPM Range 9,500-11,000 (Damage)

    Jan 2, 2007 10:16:57 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12451, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    bodysurfer said:
    update; newport auto ctr. denied my warranty claim. they said i had 6 type 1 overevs. 4 were not that bad one should have destroyed the engine and the other was pretty bas as well. i guess i don't deserve to have this claim honered but i am go'n to move up the chain of command and hope i can find a simpathetic ear to a porsche lover.abuser.


    You need to fight this with the region manager, if necessary. TYPE 1 OVERREV SHOULD NOT VOID WARRANTY. Type 1 is very typical and the car's rev limit is meant to protect the engine from harm under these circumstances - that's why the rev-limiter is there. Type 2 is the only type that should have warranty implications (like downshifting into 2nd gear by mistake at high speed).

    Good luck and don't take No for an answer!

    Jan 2, 2007 10:19:07 PM

    Stephenkng
    Pilot
    Stephenkng
    Loc: S.F., CA , United States
    Posts: 356, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 5, 2005
    Reply to: sws1

    Re: engine failure

    Please keep us posted. They void the warrenty for type 1 over rev????????? Are you sure they were not type 2?????

    Jan 2, 2007 10:19:30 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12451, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: Circe

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    Circe said:
    Clearly I'm no "wrench" but still want to ask, doesn't the rev limiter prevent over-revving?


    Yes, it prevents harm from type 1 overrevs (accelerating from lower revs to redline) - electronics cut fuel and spark to prevent revving past the cut-off, but cannot prevent type 2 overrevs (missing a shift and selecting a low gear at high speed). Type 2 is a mechanical overrev and no electronics can save the engine here...

    Jan 2, 2007 10:19:43 PM

    J.Seven
    Rennteam Master
    J.Seven
    Loc: Estoril , Portugal
    Posts: 3201, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 16, 2002
    Reply to: Circe

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    Circe said:
    Quote:
    Puffy911 said:
    What is Porsche's definition of a "Type 1" over rev?



    Good question. How can this be? Clearly I'm no "wrench" but still want to ask, doesn't the rev limiter prevent over-revving?



    It can happen if you try to go from 4 to 5 gear and by mistake engage the 3 gear.

    J.Seven

    Jan 2, 2007 10:22:11 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12451, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: J.Seven

    Re: engine failure

    Quote:
    J.Seven said:
    Quote:
    Circe said:
    Quote:
    Puffy911 said:
    What is Porsche's definition of a "Type 1" over rev?



    Good question. How can this be? Clearly I'm no "wrench" but still want to ask, doesn't the rev limiter prevent over-revving?



    It can happen if you try to go from 4 to 5 gear and by mistake engage the 3 gear.

    J.Seven


    But that is a Type 2 overrev (not covered by warranty)- a type 1 is VERY common (bouncing into the limiter). I know of some people with hundreds of type 1 overrevs...

    Jan 2, 2007 10:32:12 PM

    SoCal Alan
    Rennteam VIP
    SoCal Alan
    Loc: Orange County , United States
    Posts: 7268, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 6, 2004
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: engine failure

    Is there any way an owner can "dump out" the data or does it require a visit to the shop.

    Jan 2, 2007 11:15:35 PM

    Circe
    Co-Pilot
    Circe
    Loc: NH, USA
    Posts: 157, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 26, 2005
    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: engine failure

    Guys, thanks for the quick lesson on overrevs.

    Jan 3, 2007 1:16:56 AM

    bodysurfer
    Newbie
    bodysurfer
    Loc: socal
    Posts: 21, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 19, 2005
    Reply to: sws1

    Re: engine failure

    sorry. i should have said type 2 overrev. not type one. i will keep you posted as to what transpires with my attempts to deal with porsche on this engine issue. so far svc rep and svc mgr have given me their input, not all negative either. i should point out that 1-800 porsche is worthless. i may be vague at sometimes( realizing, whatever i say may be used against me) but i will be honest.

    Jan 3, 2007 1:19:38 AM

    devo
    Veteran
    devo
    Loc: NY , United States
    Posts: 1107, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2006
    Reply to: Circe

    Re: engine failure

    I know the limiter does not protect against bad downshifts, but I thought it stopped missed upward shifts?

    Jan 3, 2007 1:24:28 AM

    bodysurfer
    Newbie
    bodysurfer
    Loc: socal
    Posts: 21, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 19, 2005
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    i made a mistake it was type 2 overrevs not type one. pardon my ignorance. couple other points. 1-800 porsche is worthless. i have talked to the svc. rep and the svc. mgr. i'm work'n on it. i will keep you posted as to the outcome.

    Jan 3, 2007 1:29:34 AM

    Flashman
    Co-Pilot
    Flashman
    Loc: USA North Carolina , United States
    Posts: 252, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 30, 2004
    Reply to: bodysurfer

    Re: engine failure

    Sorry to hear of your woes - keep pushing up the chain of command at PCNA. Get the specifics of the type=2's. Keep us posted here.
     
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