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    2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    After a 5 week summer break, Spa and Monza are on back to back weekends.

    It should be interesting to see how this weekend goes .. Monza is all about high speed and low downforce ...

    Somehow I think Mercedes might run well due to straight line speed on the straights ...

    Alonso is fit to drive .. no injuries ...

    Grosjean can watch and realise that he has to use his brain next time ...

    Maldonado will have a 10 place grid penalty.


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    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    I foresee a McLaren 1-2, unfortunately.


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    FERRARI RULES!!!


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Pre-race strategy analysis from James Allen

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/09/how-the-f1-teams-will-approach-the-italian-grand-prix/


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    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/09/raikkonen-heads-the-big-movers-in-f1/


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    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    easy_rider911:

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/09/raikkonen-heads-the-big-movers-in-f1/

    Very interesting averages breakdown.. goes to show the top 3 teams are must more in the battle and that experienced drives really count for that extra little bit to take the points home for the team. Sauber and Williams could still be a little higher up in the grid. Very competitive and interesting season, please Bernie keep it that way for next year.


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Atzporsche:
    easy_rider911:

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/09/raikkonen-heads-the-big-movers-in-f1/

    Very interesting averages breakdown.. goes to show the top 3 teams are must more in the battle and that experienced drives really count for that extra little bit to take the points home for the team. Sauber and Williams could still be a little higher up in the grid. Very competitive and interesting season, please Bernie keep it that way for next year.

    Yes. In order to make everyone competitive, let's move away from all the technology and creativity and let's F1 become Formula Ford. That will make everyone happy and thrilled, I hope...  Smiley

    This is stupid. Suddenly Sauber is super fast, Williams - OMG... What is F1 turning into?!!


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Williams has won more Constructor's Titles and its drivers have won more Driver's Championships than Red Bull Racing has. It is a team that has been grossly under-performing for over a decade ... but its past contains much glory.


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    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    I know. But their success nowdays has nothing to do with their true capabilities but more so that others have been brought back by rule tweaks.


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    easy_rider911:

    Williams has won more Constructor's Titles and its drivers have won more Driver's Championships than Red Bull Racing has. It is a team that has been grossly under-performing for over a decade ... but its past contains much glory.

    Actually, Williams is second only to Ferrari in Constructors' Championships! Great, great team! Smiley


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    I thought LH showed what he is capable of when his mind is focussed.  Pole for tomorrow and JB on the first row too.  Great result for McLaren.

    Why was "Alon so slow", so slow!!.  He'll be on it tomorrow for sure. Smiley


    --

    - "I see dead pixels..."
    - “When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.”


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    ResB:


    Why was "Alon so slow", so slow!!.  He'll be on it tomorrow for sure. Smiley

    He got a broken rear suspension in Q3 that ruined his chances, but the car was surprisingly quick in Q1 and Q2, and Alonso himself said he would of gotten the pole today if it weren't for the mechanical problem, which is very rare for him to say since he always downplays his chances before any event, so if he said that then he was seriously confident in that it would have been so.

    So that means we should expect a man on a mission tomorrow climbing up positions, and his sight set on passing Vettel and finishing in front of him, being his closest rival in points right now and Alonso is always calculating points in his head while racing.


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    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Somewhat depending on the start, I expect Button to put in a respectable and unpassable race pace while both maintaining his tires and allowing Hamilton to build a gap. Meanwhile, Alonso will not only be looking to pass Vettel, but also build a gap of as many cars as possible. If Schumacher, Di Resta and Massa can stay ahead of Vettel at least one of them will help Alonso if possible.

    I would just really like to see one of the Ferrari's on the podium at Monza and would rather bet on Alonso from 10th than Massa from 3rd. 


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Amazing drive from Perez!

    Hamilton cruised to victory today ... sorry for Button's DNF.

    RBR's reliability let them down today ... both DNFs ...

    Alonso drove well to go from 10th to 3rd ... not nice to see the Italian crowd booing LH ... but he won so he has the last laugh.

    Qualification: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/results/9713796.stm

    Race result: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/results/9713794.stm


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    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Hamilton did a perfect weekend, no mistakes, well deserved win. His weakness is that he doesn't seem to be able to be consistent on the track and mentally. But inspite that he and Alonso seem the candidates for the title,and the McLaren seems lke the fastest car on the grid at this moment of the season so...

    Vettel up to his dirty driving once again. After Bahrain and Rosberg's dangerous maneuvers in that race, all the drivers and FIA got together and agreed that that maneuver was prohibited, once the front wing is up to your rear tire you have to leave a minimun track space for the car and you cannot go Ben-Hur and push him out. They decided not to penalise Rosberg but that after that anyone doind that would be penalised. And Vettel purposedly did just that today, and didn't take the stewards too long to give him the drive through. 

    http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8067871/?

    Perez's different tire strategy worked like a charm, he started out with hard tires unlike the front drivers, stretched them out, and then fit the mediums on the end and absolutely flew. Good job.

    So sorry for Button and Webber surprise


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    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    It's obvious you have a personal problem with Vettel. This guy did nothing different to what your puppy Alonso did last year to him...Smiley


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    dxpetrov:

    It's obvious you have a personal problem with Vettel.

    True, I don't like dirty drivers. When he started in F1 I used to be a fan, he showed potential and even opn this board I mentioned that I had high hopes for him. But as seosons when on and saw how he behaved in and ouside the track, I started to dislike him. Also the high hopes I had for him didn't pan out either, his wins in F1 are more the merit of the car he had than his driving, and this season is making it more evident for those who though he was at the level of Alonso or Hamilton.

    This guy did nothing different to what your puppy Alonso did last year to him...Smiley

    Just two tiny little differences, the rules have changed since then and specifically no ban this move, that kind of changes things... and last year, Alonso did leave track space for Vettel, inspite Vettel running off the track anyway.

     


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    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Rules are becoming too restrictive IMO. The Vettel - Alonso incident was a very nice race instant, the kind that gets spectators excited. Nothing more and nothing less. The fuss is created because of the narrow regulations and the tendency of recent years to over-analyse each and every move. 

    This over-analysis with replays and slow motion and numerous opinions  is spoiling the joy of football and it will eventually spoil F1 too.

     

     


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    reginos:

    Rules are becoming too restrictive IMO. The Vettel - Alonso incident was a very nice race instant, the kind that gets spectators excited. Nothing more and nothing less. The fuss is created because of the narrow regulations and the tendency of recent years to over-analyse each and every move. 

    This over-analysis with replays and slow motion and numerous opinions  is spoiling the joy of football and it will eventually spoil F1 too.

    I disagree! F1 should be regulated like basketaball, not like football. The penalties are fair. Smiley


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Decent race.

    Out of curiosity, has anyone noted how consistent Schumacher has been this season compared to last season?


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    REALZEUS:
    reginos:

    Rules are becoming too restrictive IMO. The Vettel - Alonso incident was a very nice race instant, the kind that gets spectators excited. Nothing more and nothing less. The fuss is created because of the narrow regulations and the tendency of recent years to over-analyse each and every move. 

    This over-analysis with replays and slow motion and numerous opinions  is spoiling the joy of football and it will eventually spoil F1 too.

    I disagree! F1 should be regulated like basketaball, not like football. The penalties are fair. Smiley

    In the golden years of F1 the VET - ALO incident would have been considered as exciting racing and part of the expected spectacle. I think track officials are trying sometimes to get the focus on them, similar to some football referrees who like to be stars of the game themselves instead of the players. See how many incidents are investigated in every race compared to the past, most of them rather trivial.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Andrew Benson on the tension between Hamilton and Button (re the telemetry tweet): http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2012/09/lewis_hamiltons_victory_in_the.html

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19538383

    No team orders for Button ... eventually a point will come mathematically when this is required though ...


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    easy_rider911:



    No team orders for Button ... eventually a point will come mathematically when this is required though ...

    Agree. Massa got the order this weekend. Had to give up his first podium of the season. Frankly, knowing that Ferrari will most likely not extend or offer a new contract, I would have faked a radio problem - ignored it and gone for the personal glory. Smiley


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza


    He would of lostthe podium anyway no matterwhat ge did, alonso was much faster than him, caught up to him and once passed left him behind
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    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    reginos:
    REALZEUS:
    reginos:

    Rules are becoming too restrictive IMO. The Vettel - Alonso incident was a very nice race instant, the kind that gets spectators excited. Nothing more and nothing less. The fuss is created because of the narrow regulations and the tendency of recent years to over-analyse each and every move. 

    This over-analysis with replays and slow motion and numerous opinions  is spoiling the joy of football and it will eventually spoil F1 too.

    I disagree! F1 should be regulated like basketaball, not like football. The penalties are fair. Smiley

    In the golden years of F1 the VET - ALO incident would have been considered as exciting racing and part of the expected spectacle. I think track officials are trying sometimes to get the focus on them, similar to some football referrees who like to be stars of the game themselves instead of the players. See how many incidents are investigated in every race compared to the past, most of them rather trivial.

    That is why so many people were killed in those days. That and poorer safety in terms of cars and tracks. Thanks but no thanks; I prefer today's racing standards.


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Carlos from Spain:
    dxpetrov:

    It's obvious you have a personal problem with Vettel.

    True, I don't like dirty drivers. When he started in F1 I used to be a fan, he showed potential and even opn this board I mentioned that I had high hopes for him. But as seosons when on and saw how he behaved in and ouside the track, I started to dislike him. Also the high hopes I had for him didn't pan out either, his wins in F1 are more the merit of the car he had than his driving, and this season is making it more evident for those who though he was at the level of Alonso or Hamilton.

    This guy did nothing different to what your puppy Alonso did last year to him...Smiley

    Just two tiny little differences, the rules have changed since then and specifically no ban this move, that kind of changes things... and last year, Alonso did leave track space for Vettel, inspite Vettel running off the track anyway.

     

    You're applying double standards here, bud. A change of rules doesn't suddenly make someone ''dirty'' and other one - ''clean''. Vettel never made anything different than any other champion on the grid. Yes he is aggressive and ruthless and that's exactly ''what's doctor ordered''. If different he would never be a true racer.


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    No double standard, if its legal they can all do it if they like, but if its ilegal then no one can do it and all play by the same rules. All the drivers and FIA agreed on this, and they all since then followed that rule, except one, who broke to rule to his favor which is called cheating (i.e.another dirty incident from vettel) and hence was penalised for it, case closed.

    The double standard would be allowing one driver to do it to his advantage while the others follow the rules, which is what you are doing.

     

     

     

    BTW, just to refreshen your memory since it seems a bit blurry, look at 

    (1) how sudden or progressively one the lead driver moves to the outside

    (2) how much one driver pushes the other driver

    (3) and how far side they are at that time in each case

    (4) the end result for the driver behind on each case.

     


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    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    It is very marginal and certainly you can't expect them to make such incremental judgements in the heat of battle. The intention was the same. The other thing is that they introduced this rule this year. Same would have happened to Alonso last year (if Vettel was the same whining b***h to complain about it). 

    You have no case that proves difference between the two and no right to call any one of them bad or whatever. Probably your national sensitivity blurs the objective view or whatever but that's not fair. I have no such thing and have been able to follow all the drivers regardless of their nationalities and really get pissed off when something like that interferes. That's very common both for Spanish and British followers. Just remember Lewis vs Fernando's bashing from both sides in McLaren days.... 

    Just drop it, people...


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    dxpetrov:

     Same would have happened to Alonso last year (if Vettel was the same whining b***h to complain about it). 

    FAIL. The FIA stewards do not act only when a driver requests it. They didn't penalise Alonso because there was nothing to penalise. Last year that maneuver wasn't banned, and this years drivers and FIA specifically spoke about it and decided to make it ilegal from now on. Not to mention as the gifs I posted illustrate, both incidents were not the same.

    Probably your national sensitivity blurs the objective view or whatever but that's not fair. I have no such thing and have been able to follow all the drivers regardless of their nationalities and really get pissed off when something like that interferes.

    Yes, because in F1 only fans who's nationality coincides with the driver's are biased SmileySmiley ... shall we look at your previous posts on Vettel in the forum Smiley


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    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    Too many rules spoil sport. The  track side officials decide on the basis of numerous video replays, whereas the driver has fraction of a second to do a move at 300km/h. A few centimeters to one side or other are impossible to judge at those speeds. 

    My opinion is not based on ALO or VET (who I both like as drivers) , but it is a very general view.

     

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2012 Italian F1 Grand Prix at Monza

    What a funny debate... indecision

    If I may add my personal point of view, both drivers, Alonso and Vettel, overstepped the mark with their respective maneuvers with the slight difference that Vettel definitely did not leave room for another car beside him. On the other hand, he wasn´t able to predict whether Alonso would leave enough room for him last year. No matter whether rules explicitly forbid such actions or not, Vettel was in for quite some ride.

    Regarding this year´s performances, the current tire spec seems to have a very narrow performance field. Obviously one needs a lot of factors to come together to be really quick and, in my opinion, that explains why every driver has very changing performances over the course of the year. That accounts for Hamilton or Button just as much as for Webber or Vettel. Even if Alonso has extracted a lot out of his current car, he has shown the same change of performance to a certain degree. It is also not only applicable to the top drivers but throughout the field. On some occasions, drivers such as Perez or Raikkoenen are able to show stunning performances, on others they are part of the midfield.


     
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