Crown

https://www.netcarshow.com/bmw/2017-5-series/

I like it a lot, especially M550i X drive.

http://www.bmw.de/de/neufahrzeuge/5er/limousine/2016/modelle-ausstattungen/bmw-m-performance.html

Great looking car. But way too much like the previous ones. 

MB is currently successful as they updated the whole line up from scratch on. BMW and Audi are following the route of technology optimization while leaving the body to a large extend untouched. 

Buying a car is based on emotions. Having a new car looking like the previous one is kind of boring and gives limited emotions. 

Boring...and the interior is even more boring. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

I'm sure the tech will be good and the handling as well for its class but it looks the same as a 3 series and as the previous 5 series, and BMW interiors are imo so awful in design for years now. They have taken "unified corporate image" and conservative design too far. Did not used to be like that years ago, but now Audi and specially Mercedes look so much better.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Lars997:

Great looking car. But way too much like the previous ones. 

MB is currently successful as they updated the whole line up from scratch on. BMW and Audi are following the route of technology optimization while leaving the body to a large extend untouched. 

Buying a car is based on emotions. Having a new car looking like the previous one is kind of boring and gives limited emotions. 

I totally agree - it is astonishing to ser how badly BMW is managed in comparison to the other OEMs.

I do not like BMW cars anymore, can't help it. Only BMW I like currently is the M2 because it has a pretty impressive road presence. Other than the M2, I do not like a single BMW model, neither performance-wise nor from a design point of view. In the past, I loved BMW. 

I am also a bit worried with the direction Audi is going regarding their exterior design (new Audi S5 for example)

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Bring back Bangle!  

Only kidding.  

fritz

fritz:

Bring back Bangle!  

 

 

 

Only kidding.  

It is funny how everyone copies design elements. Those inlays in different material/color in the air intakes are already used by Porsche and Audi RS models.

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Take the i8. This could have been the BMW sports car. While Audi, Porsche and even Mercedes (AMG) have high performance super sportscars, BMW has...what exactly? The M6? Ridiculous. 

Instead of using the i8 design for a proper super sportscar, they used it for a crappy hybrid which isn't even capable to keep up with the competition in this segment.

Just look at this design...they could have done so much with it. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

its like the new Audi A4 - it looks the same as the previous generation :(

hunterone:

its like the new Audi A4 - it looks the same as the previous generation :(

Actually, it looks a bit different and I don't like the design change, it is a bit too "factual", it is difficult to explain.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

BMW has lost the plot in the last 10 years. 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

bluelines:

BMW has lost the plot in the last 10 years. 

 The question is: Why?  BMW has put amazing products on the road in the past, what is going on?!

They seem to play it too safe, maybe one reason? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

I would only consider the M2..

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

RC:

bluelines:

BMW has lost the plot in the last 10 years. 

 The question is: Why?  BMW has put amazing products on the road in the past, what is going on?!

They seem to play it too safe, maybe one reason? 

Yes. Safe, bland and boring.

They have become what Volvo once was 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

Today I downloaded the 5 series catalogue PDF from BMW's website. On page 8 I noticed that it's the catalogue of the previous generation! :)

IMHO managment is too scared these days, if something sells they don't change it. And then there's market research. Surveys nearly ever boost innovation since people like what they know. But management is safe, nobody has to take a risk.

It's not just BMW, Panamera doesn't look that new too (just more refined), Merc is doing the same car in various sizes (I really can't distinguish the new E-class from the C-class), and Audi is doing the same design since 10 years ("new" Q5 anyone, or A4/A5? And even the current Audi R8 does look like the previous one, although RC will probably deny).

On a personal note, I do like the new 5 series and would get it over A6/ E-class/Volvo 90 etc if I'd be in the market for this segment. But it's nothing to write home about.

+1 

zzboba:

Today I downloaded the 5 series catalogue PDF from BMW's website. On page 8 I noticed that it's the catalogue of the previous generation! :)

IMHO managment is too scared these days, if something sells they don't change it. And then there's market research. Surveys nearly ever boost innovation since people like what they know. But management is safe, nobody has to take a risk.

Maybe the management is as safe as their potential customers?  One of my best friends always buys a BMW 3 series estate. Always. Smallest engine, only A/C and basic options, manual. This is his thing. His daughter just got herself a BMW 1 series, she is 30, young and independent, we expected a Cab or something sporty but she got herself a boring 1 series.  Maybe the typical BMW customer wants it this way?! 

It's not just BMW, Panamera doesn't look that new too (just more refined), Merc is doing the same car in various sizes (I really can't distinguish the new E-class from the C-class), and Audi is doing the same design since 10 years ("new" Q5 anyone, or A4/A5? And even the current Audi R8 does look like the previous one, although RC will probably deny).

Actually, I think that the Panamera looks different and the interior is a real treat. I just don't like the huge front lights (there needs to be something left for the facelift, right? ) and parts of the rear. Mercedes did well with the new E class in my opinion, people have issues distinguishing the C class from the S class sometimes, so no big deal. These are no cars you want to attract attention with in my opinion. The interior is way better than in the past, a clear upgrade but still not what I would expect from Mercedes. Audi has improved the interiors a lot, the virtual cockpit GUI design needs a bit more individuality though for each model. The new R8 really looks completely different than the old one but maybe I am used to the new design. People usually recognize the new one quite fast, so I don't think so.

On a personal note, I do like the new 5 series and would get it over A6/ E-class/Volvo 90 etc if I'd be in the market for this segment. But it's nothing to write home about.

No 5 series for me, probably not even the A6 (RS6 maybe...when I see how it looks...in two years or so).
E-class? Too big for me, I'm not a fan of such cars anyway (I prefer SUVs). Volvo 90? Are you kidding me? No Volvo for me, like ever. Sorry. 

Actually, I like Lars' choice (C43 AMG 4matic) . Small, affordable, fast, AWD, very nice. 

I would probably get a slightly used C63 S AMG Coupe though...if it were available with 4matic (as far as I remember, it isn't).

New BMW M5 with AWD? Tempting but the crappy sounding V8 Biturbo is not something I could really enjoy.

My (imaginary) favorite family car would be a Q7 with the R8 V10 engine but I don't even want to think about the fuel consumption of such a truck. 

The 5 series is just too boring, same goes to the 7 series. Just not my thing. I would always prefer an Audi S8 over the 7 series for example. Or a Panamera Turbo. Mercedes S class? Not for me, sorry but the S class Coupe is quite nice.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Actually, I think that the Panamera looks different and the interior is a real treat.

I agree on Panamera's interior, which is nice (apart from the cupholders though). Looking forward to the 991-successor with this cockpit.

I do like the 7 series interior quite a lot, best interior I've ever been in (yet). At least among plain vanilla cars. But I'm biased.

Audi has improved the interiors a lot, the virtual cockpit GUI design needs a bit more individuality though for each model

Yes, when I first encountered the Audi Virtual Cockpit (in a rental TT) I though "yeah, awesome!" - but now they put this thing in any Audi, and it's always the same. BTW, can you turn off this "ba di dum" Audi theme? This was a little too much for me.

Ah, I'm getting offtopic.

Mercedes S class? Not for me, sorry but the S class Coupe is quite nice.

I agree on this one, the S Coupé is the only current Merc I really like.

I don't really understand this BMW bashing. These cars drives better than their Audi and Mercedes counterparts. The design might be a bit boring but when you look at the new audi A4 and R8, I'm sorry but it's hard to tell the difference between the previous generation and the new one. The R8 is a great exemple. I always have to look twice to figure out if it's the new one or not. 

Porsche is also very conservative with the design of its cars and most people would not be able tell the difference between all the generations of 911. You could also say that Porsche play it safe and is getting quite boring. 

The main issue with BMW is the interior which is not great from a design perspective. The quality of the materials used is also a real problem. That said, the driving experience is still better than the one you will get with an Audi. The R8 is an exception, obviously. 

/\  I agree. Currently my daily driver is the current 730d and it's so much fun to drive for such a big car, it feels and behaves like a much smaller and lighter car (until you try to park it). And the car is comfortable as well, while taking corners like it's on a train tracks. Something I've last experienced in a 458 (on another level, of course). Can't really tell this from the S-class which always feels big and wobbly, nor the A8, where the steering (to me) feels very artificial.

Rumour is that the new M5 will have some impressive tech and performance, 0-60 in 3.3, 620 HP, XDrive that switches to 2WD at speed, etc. Looking forward to seeing that. Also, the new 750 interior bits are fantastic. The new E63 is nice too, but the C-Class cars look like they've been squeezed, too tall and narrow. Not a lot of great stuff coming out of either company right now overall. 

I like it quite a bit, but the last 5er I would buy is the e39.. after that, might as well buy a Hyundai  

This latest one is a lazy facelift at best. 

1986 BMW 325i Cabrio Alpine Weiss/Black Leather - German Spec 
2006 Mercedes-Benz CLS 500 Black/Black Leather 

Ex: ''91 BMW 535i, '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

amazon:

I don't really understand this BMW bashing. These cars drives better than their Audi and Mercedes counterparts. The design might be a bit boring but when you look at the new audi A4 and R8, I'm sorry but it's hard to tell the difference between the previous generation and the new one. The R8 is a great exemple. I always have to look twice to figure out if it's the new one or not. 

Porsche is also very conservative with the design of its cars and most people would not be able tell the difference between all the generations of 911. You could also say that Porsche play it safe and is getting quite boring. 

The main issue with BMW is the interior which is not great from a design perspective. The quality of the materials used is also a real problem. That said, the driving experience is still better than the one you will get with an Audi. The R8 is an exception, obviously. 

 

I disagree. I drive various different Audi models from time to time, same goes to BMW models (a good friend works for BMW development).

Examples: Audi RS3...there is no match at BMW for this car. Sound is just amazing, we were just recently talking about how Audi actually got a street legal certification for this car. Take the M2: Amazing looks and street presence and the engine doesn't sound bad but there is a turbo lag, much worse than with the RS3.

Take the new Audi TT RS: Again, amazing sound, performance is out of this world. BMW doesn't have anything in this price/performance segment.

Audi RS6 vs. M5: The M5 sounds horrible, the interior is boring. The outdated RS6 interior looks much better than the M5 interior. The M5 feels and drives sportier but it is boring.

Audi S8 and BMW 7 series: This is like comparing apples with oranges. For me, the S8 is for ages 40-50, the 7 series for ages 60-70.  At least this is how I feel about those two. The S8 also sounds better than any 7 series.

Sorry but I think that BMW needs to up their game.

Regarding the R8: The R8 does not "fit" Audi at all. Without Audi buying Lamborghini, I am pretty sure the R8 wouldn't exist at all. I do not consider the R8 to be an Audi but we all know that Audi owns Lamborghini and without the Audi money and engineering help, Lamborghini would not be now where they are. So it would be unfair to say that Audi had nothing to do with the R8 but I do not consider it to be the typical Audi.

Regarding the virtual cockpit: I couldn't agree more. Audi makes a huge mistake by putting the virtual cockpit in basically every new model but keeping the same GUI design over all model ranges. This is dumb and will at some point hurt their business. My dealer told me that Audi is aware of this problem but GUI design is apparently a complicated thing and it takes time to adapt a new GUI design to each and every model. Of course Audi should have thought of that in the first place but you know how it is with new products... I love the virtual cockpit but it could definitely need a different GUI design in a 220k EUR car vs. the 70k RS3 I recently drove. It looked the same.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Atzporsche:

I like it quite a bit, but the last 5er I would buy is the e39.. after that, might as well buy a Hyundai  

This latest one is a lazy facelift at best. 

The only 5 series I would buy right now is the V10 M5.  Unfortunately, owners don't seem to want to give them away and available cars are often not in a good shape or too expensive. Heard a V10 M6 recently, wow...amazing sound.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

amazon:

I don't really understand this BMW bashing. These cars drives better than their Audi and Mercedes counterparts. The design might be a bit boring but when you look at the new audi A4 and R8, I'm sorry but it's hard to tell the difference between the previous generation and the new one. The R8 is a great exemple. I always have to look twice to figure out if it's the new one or not. 

Porsche is also very conservative with the design of its cars and most people would not be able tell the difference between all the generations of 911. You could also say that Porsche play it safe and is getting quite boring. 

The main issue with BMW is the interior which is not great from a design perspective. The quality of the materials used is also a real problem. That said, the driving experience is still better than the one you will get with an Audi. The R8 is an exception, obviously. 

 

I disagree. I drive various different Audi models from time to time, same goes to BMW models (a good friend works for BMW development).

Examples: Audi RS3...there is no match at BMW for this car. Sound is just amazing, we were just recently talking about how Audi actually got a street legal certification for this car. Take the M2: Amazing looks and street presence and the engine doesn't sound bad but there is a turbo lag, much worse than with the RS3.

Take the new Audi TT RS: Again, amazing sound, performance is out of this world. BMW doesn't have anything in this price/performance segment.

Audi RS6 vs. M5: The M5 sounds horrible, the interior is boring. The outdated RS6 interior looks much better than the M5 interior. The M5 feels and drives sportier but it is boring.

Audi S8 and BMW 7 series: This is like comparing apples with oranges. For me, the S8 is for ages 40-50, the 7 series for ages 60-70.  At least this is how I feel about those two. The S8 also sounds better than any 7 series.

Sorry but I think that BMW needs to up their game.

Regarding the R8: The R8 does not "fit" Audi at all. Without Audi buying Lamborghini, I am pretty sure the R8 wouldn't exist at all. I do not consider the R8 to be an Audi but we all know that Audi owns Lamborghini and without the Audi money and engineering help, Lamborghini would not be now where they are. So it would be unfair to say that Audi had nothing to do with the R8 but I do not consider it to be the typical Audi.

Regarding the virtual cockpit: I couldn't agree more. Audi makes a huge mistake by putting the virtual cockpit in basically every new model but keeping the same GUI design over all model ranges. This is dumb and will at some point hurt their business. My dealer told me that Audi is aware of this problem but GUI design is apparently a complicated thing and it takes time to adapt a new GUI design to each and every model. Of course Audi should have thought of that in the first place but you know how it is with new products... I love the virtual cockpit but it could definitely need a different GUI design in a 220k EUR car vs. the 70k RS3 I recently drove. It looked the same.

Christian,

I completely agree with what you just said but you're only comparing some of the top version (RS or M).

• 1 series vs A3 : the bmw is a better drive & the better buy  (except for the RS3)
• 3 series vs A4: the bmw is the better drive 
• 435i/440i vs S5 : the bmw is the better drive
• M3/M4 vs RS5 : the Bmw will be more fun 
• 5 series vs A6 : again, the bmw is the better drive and buy
• 550i vs S6 : the bow is probably the better drive & better fun 
• M5 vs RS6 : though one; the audi is pretty cool but I still think the M5 will be more fun
• 7 series vs A8 : the Audi is so old now, my vote goes to bmw
• M7 vs S8 : my vote goes to the Audi. Don't know why but I just love the S8
• 6 series : no completion from Audi
• R8:  no competition from bmw
• M2 vs TTS :  hard call

 All in all, I don't think bmw is lagging behind. It all depends what you're looking for. The topic here was the 5 series (not even the M5). In that respect, the new 5 series would beat the shit out of the old A6.

The 1 series looks like...how to put it...sh.. 

The 3 series looks boring vs. the A4. Better drive? Depends on engine choice.

5 series vs. old A6: Again, it depends on engine choice. Old A6 interior is still nicer than 5 series interior in my opinion.

I just realized that most BMW and Audi are basically boring because they are...stuffy. 

Same goes to Mercedes. There aren't many car models I would call interesting or cool. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Lars997:

Great looking car. But way too much like the previous ones. 

MB is currently successful as they updated the whole line up from scratch on. BMW and Audi are following the route of technology optimization while leaving the body to a large extend untouched. 

Buying a car is based on emotions. Having a new car looking like the previous one is kind of boring and gives limited emotions. 

Have to agree, I always loled the 5 series,  best on it´s class, but this new model is boring to look at. Real life might look better, but still they should have made a bigger design improvement to steer the emotions like Lars said.

--

J.Seven

RC:

Atzporsche:

I like it quite a bit, but the last 5er I would buy is the e39.. after that, might as well buy a Hyundai  

This latest one is a lazy facelift at best. 

The only 5 series I would buy right now is the V10 M5.  Unfortunately, owners don't seem to want to give them away and available cars are often not in a good shape or too expensive. Heard a V10 M6 recently, wow...amazing sound.

At idle sounds like a diesel car, horrible, I couldn´t believe when I hear it  After 3500rpm the V10 wakes up and the sound is indeed great, but far,  far, far from the V10 music you have on your R8, very far.

--

J.Seven

Audi should not adapt the UI to each model differently. That makes no sense from a brand perspective. Audi wants an R8 buyer to own a Q7 and an S8 or whatever, and the buyer should be familiar with what he's buying in terms of usage. Everyone in the family who uses the cars should be able to use them all easily.