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    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    rockhead said:
    Exactly what I expected from the rennteam forum. It's the only forum I read.
    I have the utmost repect for 69bossnine as a member, I'm sorry I turned out to be such a dissappointment. I was actually hoping to see your car collection in Florida some day. I quess an invitation is out of the question.



    Don't take me so seriously!! You left yourself so wide-open, I just couldn't resist running with it.... The way you phrased that post, it was just itching to be exploited... And when it comes to exploitation, leave it to me

    Anybody with a sense of humor and interest in old American cars/trucks is always welcome to drop in, I don't care if you pull up in the Coyote from Hardcastle & McCormick...

    But c'mon, you know that when you're comparing cars on a Porsche forum, you're going to have to produce more than a spec-sheet argument. Porsches are as much about intangibles and craftsmanship and art as they are about performance numbers... Otherwise, we'd all be badge-posturing posing idiots paying the premium for them.

    (We're not by the way )

    (And yes, that last sentance is a masterpiece of alliteration.. )

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S *DELETED*

    Post was too stupid; I'm having a bad day.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    I don't wear a watch...

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Don't judge the Z06 until you have driven it for a thousand miles or more. My '05 C2S was nice to drive, loved it. But the Z06 is not only nice to drive, it is also fun to drive. From he moment you hit the start button the fun begins and does not stop until you hit the button to turn it off.
    And as you walk away form the Z it will blow it's horn to let you know that it has locked the doors. Any way you look at it most of us but these type of cars to have fun in them.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    I think the whole thing is being taken way too seriously...

    I get the whole Rolex analogy, but quite honestly, a watch just sits there and tells you the time. Not a whole lot of "involvement" going on, like a car offers. And while I appreciate fine craftsmanship and materials as much as the next bloke, I think you guys who collect all these pricey timepieces are out of your collective gordes... I think you'd buy a $500 paper clip, if it was platinum and bent into shape by a monk, for the mere purpose of being able to say you owned it.

    A car is a machine that you can INVOLVE yourself in. The materials, craftsmanship and engineering TRANSLATES INTO SOMETHING that becomes an extension of your very body. You RIDE the sucker, you don't just stare at it and say, "hey, it's 4:56!!"

    As-such, I tend to give cars credit for experience-offered for money-spent. There's AN ENDLESS MIX of attributes that you can spill into a vehicle per-dollar. One car may be a work of art, but boring to drive, and another may be the best driving thing in the world, but crude and rudely constructed. And everything in-between.

    Again, I get queezy seeing the Corvette be the brunt of car "snobbery". It's not PRETENDING to be a Rolex. And there's nothing WRONG with a Timex.

    It's no different than the first time people heard Rock & Roll, and some folks loved it for what it was, and others turned up their noses and covered their ears for they deemed it "unworthy as a musical form", and walked away, with 2x4's still firmly emplanted in their asses..

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    HL said:
    Don't judge the Z06 until you have driven it for a thousand miles or more. My '05 C2S was nice to drive, loved it. But the Z06 is not only nice to drive, it is also fun to drive. From he moment you hit the start button the fun begins and does not stop until you hit the button to turn it off.
    And as you walk away form the Z it will blow it's horn to let you know that it has locked the doors. Any way you look at it most of us but these type of cars to have fun in them.



    I can testify to this statement. I did test drive a Z06 not for long, may be 30 minutes, and it feels and drives completely different from a 911.

    911 has a sharper handling (Steering) but with Z06 raw power the handling can be compensated right away.

    I was TOTALLY blown away by its raw power. With a slight push on gas this car immediately jumps I mean it is so responsive that totally surprised the hell out of me.

    Changed my whole point of view about GM, to be honest.

    I've been contemplating about getting one myself and after the test drive I'm itching for one even more.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    Again, I get queezy seeing the Corvette be the brunt of car "snobbery". It's not PRETENDING to be a Rolex. And there's nothing WRONG with a Timex.





    Nah, don't get queasy.

    If Corvette cost the same as the Carrera GM wouldn't sell enough of them for Corvette to stay in business .

    If Carreras cost the same as Corvettes, "nobody" would buy the Corvette (i.e. not enough buyers would result in the Corvette being discontinued).

    It is what it is: a "good value."

    Just because people have more money to spend on BS toys doesn't automatically make things snobby.



    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    I don't think you should compare Porsche with Rolex - after all, Rolex is what those who don't know any better buy when they want to show off their wealth. In fact, it is a rather dull, common and predictable choice. More like a Benz.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    How many laps would it take around the fabled "ring" before my '05 C2S would be lapped by the Z06. Don't most of the pros win by seconds or half seconds?

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Sorry, there's a difference between Timex and Rolex where I come from. I'm sure both watches keep excellent time.

    Year after year it's too bad the Corvette looks so overstyled and "Camero-like." If it had the ballsy, _clean_, intelligent body styling of Ferrari maybe I'd buy one. Really, the processed cheese GM looks (and engineering) ruin it for me.





    In this picture - the 997 looks like a masterpiece of modern design. The Z on the other hand has the look of a car that has had a fat girl sitting in it for too long.

    Im afraid the Z just isnt my cup of tea no matter how quick it is. Just dont like the look of it.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    rockhead said:
    How many laps would it take around the fabled "ring" before my '05 C2S would be lapped by the Z06. Don't most of the pros win by seconds or half seconds?





    We'll never know.
    GM can't find someone stupid enough to risk racing it around the Ring again.
    Jan Magnussen the race car driver hired by GM (see pictures above ) stated :
    " I could not have driven a single lap more . I would'nt have liked to drive a SINGLE METER (3 feet ) more with myself at the wheel at that speed "

    Hope this answers your question .

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Again, I am a Porsche fan at heart. I've put my money where my mouth is. I have given Porsche AG hundreds of thousands just like you.
    My intention was not replace Ferarri loving "Nick".
    I quess I was surprised by the very positive experience with the Z06 given my Porsche tendancies and my previous lack of repect for the Corvette.
    To drive a car in an enviroment where the limits of a car are capable of being reached provided me the ability to make an honest assesment of my C2s. IT CHANGED MY OPINION.
    We beat the crap out of these cars without one hiccup. It made my C2S seem delicate and breakable.
    Honestly, some of the posts sounded like a couple of cackling beauty judges instead of a automotive forum.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    rockhead said:

    To drive a car in an enviroment where the limits of a car are capable of being reached provided me the ability to make an honest assesment of my C2s. IT CHANGED MY OPINION.
    We beat the crap out of these cars without one hiccup. It made my C2S seem delicate and breakable.




    Yeah, it's a nice driving car (different from Carrera); Corvette is definitely an accomplished machine for the money.

    Too bad it's made by GM (not known for quality), too bad it looks like GM (watered-down-popular) and too bad it's still called a "Corvette" (muscle car, big beltbuckle baggage).


    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    If Carreras cost the same as Corvettes, I agree, more folks would choose the Carrera, but others who demand the torque and power that the Chevy V8 delivers would hang tough.

    When I drive the new C6's, that's what I always come away thinking... "Man, if I could only have THAT motor in my Porsche, now that would be the perfect automobile..."

    Of course, pulling the flat-6 out of a 911 would be heresy, not to mention it wouldn't work dynamically, but I'm smitten by both the 6-liter and 7-liter Chevy V8's. They make the hair on the back of your neck tingle, and you giggle like a school-kid smashing something with a baseball bat.

    Sometimes I feel that my 997S is a bit too civilized and friendly, I wish it could cop an attitude now and then. It's the Ned Flanders of sports cars.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Someone earlier said: If that's all that matters to you, you probably do not have the capacity to appreciate a 997 for all of its style, engineering, and pedigree.

    So sad, but indeed For some of us Porsche might as wel supply a 911 Diesel...

    Please look trought the marketing b*ll of engineering & pedigree
    The 997 should received a lot more HP, and it's because PAG does not want to invest more in the engines that we have a "slow" 997 Now...

    The Z06 is a finely honed Super-car For a reasonable price.. just shows that to make such a device, you don't have to charge 400K +

    The 997 is a finely honed Sportscar, nothing more nothing less...

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    When I drive the new C6's, that's what I always come away thinking... "Man, if I could only have THAT motor in my Porsche, now that would be the perfect automobile..."





    That's why my C2S is getting traded for a TT in a year or so. Car's gotta have even more balls for passing on curvey rural highways.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    rockhead said:
    Again, I am a Porsche fan at heart. I've put my money where my mouth is. I have given Porsche AG hundreds of thousands just like you.
    My intention was not replace Ferarri loving "Nick".
    I quess I was surprised by the very positive experience with the Z06 given my Porsche tendancies and my previous lack of repect for the Corvette.
    To drive a car in an enviroment where the limits of a car are capable of being reached provided me the ability to make an honest assesment of my C2s. IT CHANGED MY OPINION.
    We beat the crap out of these cars without one hiccup. It made my C2S seem delicate and breakable.
    Honestly, some of the posts sounded like a couple of cackling beauty judges instead of a automotive forum.



    Much of what you say about comparing the two cars is true but your approach in the comparison was deliberately confrontational and nothing new. The response was not surprising.

    I believe Victor Hugo was said "Do you know anything more useless than a sting which does not sting?"

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    loe said:

    The Z06 is a finely honed Super-car For a reasonable price.. just shows that to make such a device, you don't have to charge 400K +





    Uh..., sorry..., in my book Corvette ain't no super car.

    That's reserved for CGT, Enzo, Mclaren, etc. The good news is, IMO, the 997 Turbo makes it into supercar territory.


    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    You won't regret your Z06 purchase. I like most here said I would never buy a Vette after owming my M3s, Ferraris etc.. until I drove a Z06. It' really is a phenominal car. Great feel, could be more communicative but the run flats need to be changed. Brakes are top notch. They wear out fast on track days though. Mine has 15K on it with no services yet. Not a single poroblem, squeek or rattle. I was going to buy a Stradale, one of my all time favorite Ferraris until I drove one back to back with my Z06 and a Ford GT. It's not as direct to the road or as precise but it's almost as good in every category as the Stradale but it's much much faster. The 911 lineup can't really compare. It's just at another level as far as pure performance goes. The only 911 that feels as good or better as far as feel goes is the GT3 which strikes me much like the STradale. It does everything very well but it's no where near as fast. Stock Z06s are fast but if you put headers and a tune like I have it's really unbelievable. WIth the torque management taken off it's crazy fast. It smokes the tires on the freeway at 80+ sometimes. Torque managemnet is the only thing that keeps it from running 10 second quarter miles off the showroom floor. I can't seem to keep mine slower than 11.4 in the QT. I get kicked off the track everytime I go. Have fun and drive the hell out of it. It's not for posing.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    355Spider said:
    ....(Z06) Torque managemnet is the only thing that keeps it from running 10 second quarter miles off the showroom floor. I can't seem to keep mine slower than 11.4 in the QT. I get kicked off the track everytime I go.


    Interesting. Without turning this into vette forum, what is the software tweak necessary to get rid of the Z06 torque mgmt, does it nuke your warranty?

    How is your Z06 insurance premium? relative to M3 or Porsche for instance?

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    It's a pretty easy tweak in the computer. They just hook it up and bam 25hp and no toque management. So it accelerates much faster through 2cnd gear. And the warranty has been intact so far when I have been to the dealership. My Z06 is about the same insurance as my M3 was. Nearly equal.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Aw crap, I'm feeling crummy for dissing Corvette. It's in the same vein as I'm a loyal BMW/M3 fan and I really WANT to like the looks of new M3 but I'm shocked how much I frickin' hate it. You guys report that the Z06 is quite a car and I believe y'all, but that distinctive (overdone) Corvette look just makes me sick; always has. Dammit!

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Congrads as you found the best car for you. I drove the Corvette before I bought my Porsche and I must say if it had 4 seats (I have 2 small kids) I most likely would have bought one. Hard to pass on saving 30K+. Sure some like the Porsche better and some like the Corvette better. Both are great cars and I'm sure you will be quite happy with he one that works best for you.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Are there big discounts over MSRP on the Z06, just priced one on the chevy site and it came to $76K with some basic options, does not seem as inexpensive as pepole make it out to be.

    Exterior: Machine Silver Metallic Interior: Red Highwear Nuance Leather
    MSRP: $70,000.00 Colors & Options: $5,635.00 Total 75,635

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Are there big discounts over MSRP on the Z06, just priced one on the chevy site and it came to $76K with some basic options, does not seem as inexpensive as pepole make it out to be.

    Exterior: Machine Silver Metallic Interior: Red Highwear Nuance Leather
    MSRP: $70,000.00 Colors & Options: $5,635.00 Total 75,635



    That is true but what is the average cost of a 997? I would think most people spend over 100K for their cars here, I could be wrong though.

    Also one can get a "standard" Vette starting around 55K or so or go for the high dollar Z06. If one looks at the "standard" Vette they could save a ton of money.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Are there big discounts over MSRP on the Z06, just priced one on the chevy site and it came to $76K with some basic options, does not seem as inexpensive as pepole make it out to be.

    Exterior: Machine Silver Metallic Interior: Red Highwear Nuance Leather
    MSRP: $70,000.00 Colors & Options: $5,635.00 Total 75,635



    That is true but what is the average cost of a 997? I would think most people spend over 100K for their cars here, I could be wrong though.

    Also one can get a "standard" Vette starting around 55K or so or go for the high dollar Z06. If one looks at the "standard" Vette they could save a ton of money.



    Dont think so on most people pay over 100K, but then we could down the line , with Cayman, vs regular vette, all the the way to a VW passat vs chevy cobalt.

    BTW from 10/06 Consumer report road test 911 vs Z06 vs Viper
    Our test cars fall into two groups, ultra-performance cars and luxury coupes. The first group consists of the 911, Chevrolet Corvette Z06, and Dodge Viper SRT. Each car is thrilling to drive with extremely high levels of acceleration, cornering grip, and braking. In many categories they set new performance records in our testing. While they're built for speed, the 911 and Z06 are civilized enough for everyday driving. Driving the Viper, however, can be punishing.

    The 911 wowed us enough with its acceleration, handling, and braking for us to rate it our top sports car. It is also easy to drive, but its much less expensive Boxster sibling performed almost as well.

    In S trim, the 911 has a bigger engine than the base Carrera, as well as upgraded suspension, wheels, and tires. Starting out at $81,400, our 911 has sport seats and a built-in stopwatch on top of the dashboard, which costs a ridiculous $920. In total, we paid $87,520. We don't have reliability data for this Porsche.

    The Corvette Z06 was very impressive with super acceleration coming from its 7.0-liter engine and excellent handling. It ranks just below the 911 in our Ratings. Several functional air scoops and flared wheel arches help distinguish it from the regular Vette. The Z06 comes only with a six-speed manual transmission and starts at $69,175. List price on ours with satellite radio, a navigation system, and a power telescoping steering wheel was $76,730, a relative bargain for this performance level. Corvette reliability has been much worse than average so we do not recommend it.

    The Viper SRT is the fastest car we've ever tested with staggering power and grip, but its lack of creature comforts cost it dearly in our tests. It comes in roadster or coupe versions and is powered by a monstrous 8.3-liter V10 engine. Our coupe had a base price of $83,415. Options such as leather trim, dual white stripes, and polished wheels brought the sticker up to $91,990, including a $3,000 gas-guzzler tax. We don't have reliability data on the Viper.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Here Downunder, a Queensland company has already given the task of converting American Z06's into right hand drives.. guess what? It will end up costing more than a 997S ! A Doctor in Adelaide apparently has paid his hard earned cash to own one because he reckons it will be definitely more exclusive than the 911's around here. Side note: interestingly lots of people (non-car enthusiast) mistake the Corvette for Ferarris figure that

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    How does the Z06 (GM's best) compare to the Porsche Turbo (Porsche's second best)?

    It's always compared to lesser HP cars and still just"loses" on the grounds of being a "good value."

    Why not compare it to the TT and "settle" the matter?

    Otherwise, with the big HP advantage of the Corvette's V8, it's always about the cheaper car being almost "just as good as" the more expensive car.


    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Are there big discounts over MSRP on the Z06, just priced one on the chevy site and it came to $76K with some basic options, does not seem as inexpensive as pepole make it out to be.

    Exterior: Machine Silver Metallic Interior: Red Highwear Nuance Leather
    MSRP: $70,000.00 Colors & Options: $5,635.00 Total 75,635



    That is true but what is the average cost of a 997? I would think most people spend over 100K for their cars here, I could be wrong though.

    Also one can get a "standard" Vette starting around 55K or so or go for the high dollar Z06. If one looks at the "standard" Vette they could save a ton of money.



    Dont think so on most people pay over 100K, but then we could down the line , with Cayman, vs regular vette, all the the way to a VW passat vs chevy cobalt.

    BTW from 10/06 Consumer report road test 911 vs Z06 vs Viper
    Our test cars fall into two groups, ultra-performance cars and luxury coupes. The first group consists of the 911, Chevrolet Corvette Z06, and Dodge Viper SRT. Each car is thrilling to drive with extremely high levels of acceleration, cornering grip, and braking. In many categories they set new performance records in our testing. While they're built for speed, the 911 and Z06 are civilized enough for everyday driving. Driving the Viper, however, can be punishing.

    The 911 wowed us enough with its acceleration, handling, and braking for us to rate it our top sports car. It is also easy to drive, but its much less expensive Boxster sibling performed almost as well.

    In S trim, the 911 has a bigger engine than the base Carrera, as well as upgraded suspension, wheels, and tires. Starting out at $81,400, our 911 has sport seats and a built-in stopwatch on top of the dashboard, which costs a ridiculous $920. In total, we paid $87,520. We don't have reliability data for this Porsche.

    The Corvette Z06 was very impressive with super acceleration coming from its 7.0-liter engine and excellent handling. It ranks just below the 911 in our Ratings. Several functional air scoops and flared wheel arches help distinguish it from the regular Vette. The Z06 comes only with a six-speed manual transmission and starts at $69,175. List price on ours with satellite radio, a navigation system, and a power telescoping steering wheel was $76,730, a relative bargain for this performance level. Corvette reliability has been much worse than average so we do not recommend it.

    The Viper SRT is the fastest car we've ever tested with staggering power and grip, but its lack of creature comforts cost it dearly in our tests. It comes in roadster or coupe versions and is powered by a monstrous 8.3-liter V10 engine. Our coupe had a base price of $83,415. Options such as leather trim, dual white stripes, and polished wheels brought the sticker up to $91,990, including a $3,000 gas-guzzler tax. We don't have reliability data on the Viper.



    Sorry don't need some reporter telling me which car is best. Just drive it and buy the one you like. If you like the Vette buy it and hey you can even same some cash. If you don't buy the Porsche.

    I almost started laughing when you put a Cayman vs a Vette. Come on lets get real.

    Re: Z06 vs. my '05 C2S

    "Sorry don't need some reporter telling me which car is best. Just drive it and buy the one you like. If you like the Vette buy it and hey you can even same some cash. If you don't buy the Porsche.

    I almost started laughing when you put a Cayman vs a Vette. Come on lets get real"

    I already did that, bought the Porsche, I could post an article about Cayman vs Vette where the Cayman came out on top, BUT, what others should probably do is take your advice and or they could just forgo it so you wont laugh and buy the vette and win all the boy racer stop light bingo races , plus have enough money left over for a great "pimp my vette" ride yeeeeehah , another vette vs porsche lunacy thread

     
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