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    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    guy2 said:
    please can you also scan the Corvette Z06 Group Test with the GT3 RS?



    Hi - I've posted it on the Sport Car Board

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Something is wrong here... Isn't the 997tt engine basicly same as 996tt? Then engine size is 3600ccm, NOT 3596ccm(this is the size of base 997 engine).



    There is nothing wrong, the 997 Turbo engine is based on the "old" 996 Turbo/964/GT1 engine design, not the M96/M97.



    Actually, Branimir is right, EVO got it wrong. The "GT1-based" Turbo engine has a nominal swept volume of 3600 cc. It's the 997 C2 engine which has a swept volume of 3596 cc.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Actually, Branimir is right, EVO got it wrong. The "GT1-based" Turbo engine has a nominal swept volume of 3600 cc. It's the 997 C2 engine which has a swept volume of 3596 cc.



    I assumed that Branimir is worried about the 997 Turbo using a M96/M97 engine "derivate", this is why I said there is nothing wrong with the info.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Actually, Branimir is right, EVO got it wrong. The "GT1-based" Turbo engine has a nominal swept volume of 3600 cc. It's the 997 C2 engine which has a swept volume of 3596 cc.



    I assumed that Branimir is worried about the 997 Turbo using a M96/M97 engine "derivate", this is why I said there is nothing wrong with the info.



    I guessed that. That's why I wrote that EVO got it wrong, not "RC got it wrong"

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    I hope your right and the Tip is faster 0-60. I am a Huge fan of the Tip.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    Atlantis said:
    New PSM software that allows you to disable PSM and brake in bends without PSM re-enabling




    The Cayman already has that feature where it only re-engages when the ABS is activated, the great part of the revised system is that it works perfectley for great drivers as you can slide the car as much as you want as long as you dont lock up the brakes.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Note, I added curb weights, so the TipS tranny adds 88-89lb to the car versus manual, which with the torque converter adds to the disadvantage.



    The tip will always be slower, only due to weight. The only way porsche can have a Tip keeping up with a manual is by having more Bhp like what they did with the 996TT or unless they drastically change gearing which is very unlikely. Porsche will always give the quickest times in a manual with an acomplished driver, as he will be able to get the full capability out of the car.

    An average driver will be quicker with a Tip in all road conditions, even more so on twisty circuits with many gear changes. The latest Tiptronics from Porsche are very highly developed compared to the earlier models, they have many diffrent algorithems for all diffrent driving styles and paterns.

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Since this Tip vs Manual speed issue came up its got me wondering.
    0-60 times seem to say that the tip is faster and there's been quite a lot of arguement on this topic. I'd also like to point out that on numerous posts there's the "0-60 is a small measurement of performance"-which i fully agree with.

    My question is looking at more of a broader picture. Tip is faster 0-60, is this because of gearing (1 less shift needed? smaller ratios?) and does this affect top speed? And more importantly are there any more rumored stats for the higher end acceleration?

    I can't wait for the official release and full stats-its only another 10 days or so isn't it?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Please don't get me wrong: for me it is totally irrelevant, if a car does the 100 kph in 4.2, 4.0 or 3.8 sec, as this number is of absolutely no interest in real life and there a far more important measurements to describe the abilities of a sportscar.



    Respectfully disagree, Rossi. The lower the 0-60 times, the better. It's one part of the performance equation, but it's an important one, especially for those of us here in the US, growing up use to comparing these times, in addition to HP numbers, 1/4 mile times and trap times. Of course, the overall performance of the car is also very important, slalom speeds, ring times. Top speed is just for bragging rights, not really applicable to anyone outside of probably the Autobahn.



    Respectfully disagree .....0-60MPH times are fairly worthless, even in US....and if one is in part of US where stoplight races are all one has (like in Chicago/FL, etc), prob have larger issues w/finding interesting, non-straight roads to enjoy your car anyway....

    On SF's 280, car's 70-120MPH accel may be tested multiple times/day during rush hr, solving traffic "jigsaw puzzles", often while one is on a conference call and late to a mtg in SilicVy/dinner in SF....

    And I suspect N-ring times (best datapoint to benchmark car's speed/accel/handling/braking on a bumpy mtn road) and brake pedal feel/fade resistance are quickly revealed w/a few spirited runs through CA mtn twisties.....

    Agree top speed is an academic debate outside of a few empty stretches of German autobahn...but even at 100-130MPHish, many high-end US custs want a car fully engineered, tested and refined with steering/brakes/chassis/safety systems/etc for state-of-art emgcy dynamics at 150-200MPH....I suspect many P/Merc/F custs expect over-engineered cars; let racecar drivers test absolute lims and periodically crash when lims are breached.....after all, aren't they highly-paid crash test dummies?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Skimmed MotorTrend article re: 997TT...they claim Tip is 0.1 sec slower than manual from 0-62MPH....

    More interestingly, they mention P indicating 997TT has clocked 7:40 on N-ring w/?Corsa Cup tires..... .....if so, does that mean 7:45 w/street tires?

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:
    so RC... does this mean your going to change your order to a black TIP instead of 6speed...



    I'm still waiting for the 0-160 kph, 0-200 kph and 0-300 kph performance figures. IF the Tiptronic is going to be faster, I may go for it. No kidding.
    I still can't see how this works but it can't be excluded that Tip is slightly faster than manual, even in the higher speed ranges.

    I'm somehow confused with all those 0-100 kph and 0-60 mph performance claims. The numbers vary a little bit, maybe there is some sort of confusion about Tip/Manual performance numbers and 0-60 mph or 0-62 mph (100 kph) performance figures.

    I'm also curious to hear if the overboost also increases the maximum power figure. Of course it may be possible that power increases by 10% too (like the torque) but ONLY at certain rev figures, so the maximum power output never exceeds 480 HP. This would still provide a pretty impressive performance gain in certain speed ranges.

    BTW: I forgot to mention that AUTO BILD claims that the boost pressure goes up from 1.0 to 1.2 bar with the overboost. I'm still not sure about these figures because I actually heard something around 0.8 bar boost pressure for the base car but it can't be excluded.

    And a last word regarding Tiptronic: we should wait until we see how it performs. In conjunction with the new VTG technology, the chrono sport package turbo and maybe some further tweaks of the Tip, it can't be excluded that the Tip actually works pretty well, even for the track.

    It is a SHAME that Porsche doesn't offer the PDK system from the start, in my opinion this may really hold some people back from buying the 997 Turbo. Especially since the performance gain from PDK may be pretty spectacular, considering the currently rumored performance figures for manual and Tip.



    I am positive that the Tiptronic version will be slower at higher speeds (as all other automatic transmission versions of other cars are): AB mentions in their recent article that the Tiptronic is .1 secs faster 0-62kph as it comes with an improved traction control system. It probably is just a marketing trick to increase sales of the old fashioned Tiptronic.

    Personnaly, I consider it inacceptable that Porsche still offers that crappy trechnology. There is no excuse for the PDK delay.

    The AB article is a collection of unfavourable news. Right now I am quite disappointed about what is known about the 997TT so far.



    Am also disappointed in lack of PDK at launch, but I still think 997TT may offer a noticeable improvement over the already-brilliant 996TTS. IMO, 996TTS' only weaknesses are turbo lag (esp vs those addicted to 55/65 accel in the 70-120MPH+ band); timid exhaust note (lack of presence when, for ex., pulling away from a restaurant in urban setting); and small fuel tank (annoyingly frequent fuel stops needed for commuter duty).

    This VTG tech may have solved the turbo lag issue...the 996TTS' biggest weakness.

    Just compare '05 996TTS vs Turbo of '90 or '95 in terms of cost, N-ring time, daily useability in any weather, reliability/mtce needs, etc; it's stunning how 996TTS compares to its peers of yesteryr (or today) ....however, I suspect the amount of incremental performance/safety/cost reduction, etc in 997TT vs 996TTS will slow vs the tremendous advances seen in the '90s, at least until engineers figure out how to reduce wt while keeping car's price in $150K area....

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    Atlantis said:
    Quote:
    guy2 said:
    please can you also scan the Corvette Z06 Group Test with the GT3 RS?



    Hi - I've posted it on the Sport Car Board



    thx

    Re: German AUTO BILD 997 Turbo "Review"

    Quote:
    VKSF said:

    Am also disappointed in lack of PDK at launch, but I still think 997TT may offer a noticeable improvement over the already-brilliant 996TTS.



    I agree. I just hope that the improvement will be large enough to satisfy my (high) expectations...

    I am likely to wait for the powerkit version including PDK. Even if that should imply another 12-18 months wait

     
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