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    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    I said it before too, seems like the front end and rear end were designed by different teams and then welded together Smiley.



    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    RC:

    Like we predicted a long time ago: the Panamera will be huge and heavy. Smiley

    Under 2000kg, Around 5 meters, with turbo below 4kgs/PS.

    Isn't this good for a limousine?


    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    I'm looking and more and more that gill is what kills it for me.  I know the rear 3/4ths view helps pinch the rear in on the top vs. the bottom... so it makes it less heavy.  Cayenne has that same "hips" back there, like the 911 too.  It's DNA.

    That gill though doesn't look like the one on the CGT. If it started at the doors' leading split edge (i.e. more upright and farther back) it'd look much better IMHO.  I'd rake it up slightly to tend into the fat butt on the side view but maybe that's goofy in other views :)




    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    I would have been amazed if this car would have looked good after all that ugly Spy-Shots. So I'm disappointed but as I expected to see the most ugly car since the Lancia Thesis I can deal with it.

    I dont know but sometimes if a company doing to good and has to good figures, the management team looses the ground for a real view on their products.

    This car sucks and it is more than ugly!



    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    Spyderidol:

    ...and what is your opinion?

    Good question... Not sure yet. I somehow hope that the Panamera looks better in reality than on pictures. The rear does look a bit fat on these AMS pictures...

    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    Thanks for posting Smiley

    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    BTW, I am really interested in how the Panamera will cope with the all new competition from BMW and Audi.

     How would you like either of the following Panamera competitors:

     - all new Alpina B7 with AWD (ca. 550hp, not heavier than the Panamera turbo)

    - all new Audi A8 (starting in 2010, launch IAA 2009) with either 580hp V10 or 550hp W12.

     

    Interesting alternatives to the Panamera turbo. Thus, the Panamera really needs to "feel" different from these more sedate cars. That would be the key to a successful sale story. Technology wise BMW and Audi are probably a bit on the more advanced side from what I read so far. I am really interested in comparing these cars on the road Smiley


    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    Ron (Houston):

    I said it before too, seems like the front end and rear end were designed by different teams and then welded together Smiley.



    --
    Happy Driving
    Just as in case of the Enzo. Smiley

    --

    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    MKSGR:

    BTW, I am really interested in how the Panamera will cope with the all new competition from BMW and Audi.

     How would you like either of the following Panamera competitors:

     - all new Alpina B7 with AWD (ca. 550hp, not heavier than the Panamera turbo)

    - all new Audi A8 (starting in 2010, launch IAA 2009) with either 580hp V10 or 550hp W12.

    Interesting alternatives to the Panamera turbo. Thus, the Panamera really needs to "feel" different from these more sedate cars. That would be the key to a successful sale story. Technology wise BMW and Audi are probably a bit on the more advanced side from what I read so far. I am really interested in comparing these cars on the road Smiley

    100% agree! A seven or A8 is a more advanced car IMO



    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    If the rear of the Panamera will really come like shown in the pics of ams, it will look as ugly as everybody said from the mules. Smiley
    --

    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    I expect the Panamera to feel and drive differently from the other german brands, like a carrera or a boxster feel different to the equivalent M-B or BMW. Some people like this difference  very much and attach value to it, some not. But Porsche wants to sell only 20,000 cars from this model and not attract every single buyer of course.

    Technology? From what I've read it will not be missing anything that others are offering. Very up to date package.

    Remember, it will not be perceived as just another luxury saloon like an S class or a 7 series or even their japanese and now korean clones, but a sportier vehicle with good accomodation and 4 doors for keener drivers. In that it will be unique.

    Also branding is very important and the allure of the Porsche badge (rightly or wrongly, is irrelevant) that will attract people that didn't want a sports car or an SUV from Porsche until now.

    As regards the looks, like with any car or any other item we all have our own visions of how they should have been. But no product can cater for the "designer" inside us, so we accept what products are offered to us. The time of "design your own" hasn't arrived yet.

    Having said that, I cannot personally find any car in the limousine category that is absolutely gorgeous and without any appearance or practicality weaknesses that stands above all the others. Also remember that the shapes of competitors from M-B, BMW and perhaps Audi are very generic and similar to all the others in the range, that private buyers (as opposed to corporate users) find boring, repetitive and indistinguishable. On the contrary the Panamera will stand out in any public car park as something different and unique and its road presence will be more dynamic. The rest, like debating a line here and a curve there in the shape is superfluous nitpicking.

    I expect great demand for this vehicle, in spite of the global recession, from China to Russia to Europe and America. It will be even the vehicle of choice in Latin American drug cartel cities, preferably in black colour with blacked out windows and accompanied by bodyguards in Cayennes. Not exactly what Ferdinand Porsche was dreaming about in 1948, but now is the year 2008!


    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    MKSGR:

    BTW, I am really interested in how the Panamera will cope with the all new competition from BMW and Audi.

     How would you like either of the following Panamera competitors:

     - all new Alpina B7 with AWD (ca. 550hp, not heavier than the Panamera turbo)

    - all new Audi A8 (starting in 2010, launch IAA 2009) with either 580hp V10 or 550hp W12.

    Interesting alternatives to the Panamera turbo. Thus, the Panamera really needs to "feel" different from these more sedate cars. That would be the key to a successful sale story. Technology wise BMW and Audi are probably a bit on the more advanced side from what I read so far. I am really interested in comparing these cars on the road Smiley

    But those are luxury cars. Porsche is marketing the Panamera as a four door sports car and have said that performance isn't far from the 911.

    There's no need to focus too much on weight since it isn't everything. The 911 has always be heavier than the Ferraris and Lamborghinis but yet the 911 is faster and better at getting all the power down to the road. The Panamera will follow the same principle.


    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

     I strongly believe , it will look like this . 



    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    Rossi:
    If the rear of the Panamera will really come like shown in the pics of ams, it will look as ugly as everybody said from the mules. Smiley
    --
    that was my initial thought. The car looks still the same than in camo. So ugly, out of any proportion. No positive surprises. Just boring, boring, boring

    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    This is a thoughtful post, thanks.  I hope that when I see the car in person at Geneva, it will strike me differently and give me an impression of newness or boldness.  I admit that my past perceptions are based on past car designs (dating even back to the Ferrari Daytona), but for now I cannot shake the sense that the back is not new, but old (like the AMC Pacer or the 928) and out of touch.

    I think the 911 shape is truly classic, but a great part of its appeal is from its overall proportion and size.  Well proportioned "roundness" is fine, but it is extremely difficult to enlarge that roundness while maintaining proportion. 

    When I first saw pictures of the CGT, I said "Wow, what a car! Yea Porsche!".  When I saw the Panamera official photos, I said "Oh no--ridicule ahead."  I would have liked to have said to someone "Wow, have you seen the new Panamera?", but I think I am going to have to be defending it from folks who say " That new Panamera is awful looking."  I hope I am wrong, boy do I hope I am wrong...


    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    Emperor:
    Lars997:
    And I'm optimistic to find Diesel Engines in later versions, too.
    Most likely not going to happen as there will be a hybrid version.

    Thats what they said up until the last moment with the Cayenne... "never a diesel version in the a Porsche! we will make a hybrid for the Cayenne"... well the hybrid is nowere to be seen yet and now all of a sudden the Cayenne gets a diesel, and not a ground braking powerful diesel for a Porsche, but a puny 240HP Audi engine for a 2ton+ vehicle Smiley

    So you bet there will be a Panamera diesel, they just won't introduce it right away and won't admit it until the very last minute so as not to loose the sales from those customers that would not purchase a Panamera if they knew ther was going to be a diesel version.


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    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    I am curious... if Porsche sales are 38% down right now due to global recessions, and the Aston Martin Rapide and Lamborghini Estoque are being released around the same time as the Panamera....who exactly is going to buy this car?

    Porsche has spent upward of $1.2 billion developing the new Panamera and is counting on it to be a sales success.  That's now looking like a big gamble surely.


    Re: Panamera Final Specs?

    Alex_997TT:

    I am curious... if Porsche sales are 38% down right now due to global recessions, and the Aston Martin Rapide and Lamborghini Estoque are being released around the same time as the Panamera....who exactly is going to buy this car?

    Porsche has spent upward of $1.2 billion developing the new Panamera and is counting on it to be a sales success.  That's now looking like a big gamble surely.

    The two other cars you mention are volume and limited use bijou cars and I cannot see anyone buying a 4 door Callardo or "Vantanguish"  for the purpose of putting it to serious 24/7 use, which by defintion is the role of a 4 door limousine.

    The Panamera can get conquest sales from all the other Luxury brands because not only of its badge but mostly its allround all-year proven ability and reputation for robustness.

    For example, an owner of a  S-class or A8 who puts huge mileages on his cars travelling around the country, could try the Panamera and be tempted. Such person would never go near the Callardo saloon for all the sensible reasons. A lmousine is not a sports car that you buy with lots of emotion.

    Also don't forget that the western traditional markets are not only saturated but also very thin. Porsche can draw sales from the various emerging markets around the globe (where incidentally the VW empire is also strong) that the bijou manufacturers cannot reach.

    As regards the return on investment side, a big part of the Panamera comes from the Cayenne, thus Porsche is enjoying significant economies of scale.

    Moreover, the new model could easily form the basis for a front-engined GT coupe or even a traditional 3 box limousine (when people familiarise fully with the idea of a saloon by Porsche), thus spreading the investment on an even greater number of units.


     
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