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    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    Forgot a very interesting aspect of the Sport Auto Supertest (this is why I love Sport Auto):

    The Panamera Turbo S SportDesign aerodynamics package.

    According to Sport Auto and an aerodynamics test, the SportDesign package actually makes aerodynamics worse by increasing downforce on the rear axle at speeds over 205 kph (when the rear wing moves into the "sport" position), which is a good thing but at the same time, due to the increased downforce on the rear axle, the lift on the front axle rises substantially. The car still felt stable at high speeds but this proves that the SportDesign package is actually wasted money in my opinion. Unless you like how it looks. I also can imagine that with additional wind and a more bumpy road, the lift would be much more noticeable, so I would stay away from the SportDesign package.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    RC, the data is great to read but I think you are reading too much into it.

    The front lift increase by about 17kg at 205kph when the rear spoiler moves into its sport position, 17kg extra lift on a 2 tonne car is NOT going to be noticable, it is insignificant !

    We have to trust that Porsche has done its homework and got the overall balance right for very high speed driving ? Maybe they brought in this extra front end lift so the back end feels even more planted than the front so corners are taken at more sensible speeds given the information coming from the "extra lifted" front ? As I say the actual numbers very subtle considering the weight of the car :)


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    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    TB993tt:

    RC, the data is great to read but I think you are reading too much into it.

    The front lift increase by about 17kg at 205kph when the rear spoiler moves into its sport position, 17kg extra lift on a 2 tonne car is NOT going to be noticable, it is insignificant !

    We have to trust that Porsche has done its homework and got the overall balance right for very high speed driving ? Maybe they brought in this extra front end lift so the back end feels even more planted than the front so corners are taken at more sensible speeds given the information coming from the "extra lifted" front ? As I say the actual numbers very subtle considering the weight of the car :)

    The increase by 17kg is significant because there already is lift on the front axle and no downforce. So the 17 kg are added to the already available lift. I agree, the weight of the car makes it very stable at high speeds but don't forget that people are actually paying big money for the SportDesign package and I think they should know that it is for looks only and no aerodynamical improvements. Smiley

    Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    You have to look at lift and downforce as the same thing, (just downforce is lift going negative) and  the size of numbers have to be regarded in the context of the overall weight of the car.

    If you put a 17kg weight on the middle of your Pan's bonnet/hood you wouldn't be able to tell it was there, it would make zero difference to the perceived handling of a 2 tonne car.

    Maybe I am naive but Porsche's record on aerodynamics and the functionality of their aero packages is exceptional and this front lift will be part of the driving experience meant by Porsche. The target buyer of the Panamera is not a 'ring driver but a high speed autobahn driver (actually in reality it is a Collins Avenue cruiser indecision)  for whom the slight lightness on the front end will regulate the high speed driving and mean safer cornering (particularly in conjunction with the extra rear end downforce) - this is a totally different set up to a GT3RS whose driver has different goals IMO - yes

    You're Pan is going to be awesome BTW - very envious kiss


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    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    I didn't order the SportDesign package, my experience with Porsche in this field never has been the best.  

    I truly hope that the car is awesome because it is going to be the only Porsche "sportscar" I am going to be able to own for the next four years or so. Thank you. kiss


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    reginos:

    Very strange situation. On the 991 the P zero were supposed to blame for the unsatisfactory wet handling and we thought that Michelin PS would have been better but on the PTS we assume that the P zero would have given a better wet time than the Michelin fitted..

    Come on Porsche sort yourselves out on this issue!

     

    Hi reginos, I agree..- there is however one fundamental difference between panam. and 991. Im not a real fan of the pana..but the numbers are impressive - yes the tyres are "wrong"..but with normal tyres it would have been maybe 5-6 seconds slower..even that would be really impressive !!!

    The difference to the 991 is that Porsche here did not throw around with big words.."14sec. faster on the Ring"..and so on..

    On the 991S the tyres saved the company from a "disgrace"...with normal tyers it would have been only 2-3 seconds (max) faster then 997.2S. This SA 991 test revealed this...with the panamera I think Porsche did not make such "agressive statements".

    There is a french Porsche magazine flat 6 - there is in its current version a comparison bewteen 997.2 and 991..the 991S was 0,7 faster in a wet track..with PDCC..!!

    Overall, I take my hat and "bow" much more for the panamera results than for the 991S results. Maybe I should consider this care more..Smiley


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    KresoF1:

    Magnificient performer you say? On DRY road/track for sure.

    To repeat SLS AMG Coupe is 10s faster on that wet handling track then Pana Turbo S. 10s faster on track where average wet conditions time is 1.35min.... Do you know what 10s means on track as short as this one? That on wet road or even better wet Nordscheleife difference would be extremly big. Can you imagine that-550ps AWD sportsedan can not follow RWD 571ps Sportscar on wet road or track. Strange, isn't it?

    BTW, I drove SLS AMG few times and still think about ordering it. It is truly awsome car IMHO.

    HI Kreso,

    Yes - agree...but on the 991 this difference to 997.2 was 17 seconds !!...in the wet the "old" 997 would lap the 991 after a few rounds....just do the math.

    We have to be fair - if we criticise the pana for this- we have to criticise the 991S even more. I wonder how long (how many SA tests more) before Porsche realizes and admits their mistake here..they cant continue like this with each time getting 1 point in the wet test..

    The SLS is a great car..to that I would agree:)


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    GTlover:

    On the 991S the tyres saved the company from a "disgrace"...with normal tyers it would have been only 2-3 seconds (max) faster then 997.2S. This SA 991 test revealed this...with the panamera I think Porsche did not make such "agressive statements".

    There is a french Porsche magazine flat 6 - there is in its current version a comparison bewteen 997.2 and 991..the 991S was 0,7 faster in a wet track..with PDCC..!!


    If I am not completely mistaken, the 997.2 in the SA Supertest was running on Pilot Cup tires. In terms of suspension and handling, the 991 is a leap forward.

     


    Re: Panamera Turbo S Supertest

    Ferdie:

    GTlover:

    On the 991S the tyres saved the company from a "disgrace"...with normal tyers it would have been only 2-3 seconds (max) faster then 997.2S. This SA 991 test revealed this...with the panamera I think Porsche did not make such "agressive statements".

    There is a french Porsche magazine flat 6 - there is in its current version a comparison bewteen 997.2 and 991..the 991S was 0,7 faster in a wet track..with PDCC..!!


    If I am not completely mistaken, the 997.2 in the SA Supertest was running on Pilot Cup tires. In terms of suspension and handling, the 991 is a leap forward.

     

    Yes..but how they are called is irrelevant - all that counts is the result. +17 sec on a track of 1,5KM..is huge. These are the facts.

    A leap forward..well - yes - but usually leaps also have to be confirmed in numbers..just saying its a leap is not enough.

    The panamera is more a leap for me than the 991..although Im not such a fan of it. But the result is remarkable..the result of the 991 was "mediocre"..at least compared to what Porsche has officially claimed.

    Anyway, Im now really curios if Porsche will show up again with 1 point in the wet for a SA test..the boxster 981 will be the next one to be tested...I really like the new oneSmiley


     
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