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    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    I drove my car 40 miles before I notice the difference.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Quote:
    edz said:
    I drove my car 40 miles before I notice the difference.



    Oh alright Ed! I went and ordered the damn thing today! Still not convinced, but what the Hell. The GIAC software upgrade I guess will be next. Damn the torpedoes! FULL SPEED AHEAD! I'm guessing I'll be able to trade it in on a Buick if it doesn't work out.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Quote:
    Over the Hill said:
    Quote:
    edz said:
    I drove my car 40 miles before I notice the difference.





    Oh alright Ed! I went and ordered the damn thing today! Still not convinced, but what the Hell. The GIAC software upgrade I guess will be next. Damn the torpedoes! FULL SPEED AHEAD! I'm guessing I'll be able to trade it in on a Buick if it doesn't work out.



    No worries you will see for yourself. As for the software take a look at Revotechnik. They just came out with their software after everyone else. I had it on my C4s and loved it and now if I do ecu tuning on my 997TT will perhaps consider revo at 50 H.P. increase at $2700.00

    http://www.revotechnik.com/products/softwareProduct.aspx?pvID=726

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    TB993tt I believe the reason for this is that for security reasons the ecu may detect all parametres/problems almost instantly (as you describe) but then adjust parameters only gradually.. This probably has to do with minimising the risk that sth goes wrong and the reliability of the engine is compromised.
    Having said that, the effect of the plenum on airflow should not require such big adjustments (as per my experience above) and a couple of spirited drives should do the trick. However one should consider whether the stock ecu's parameter tolerances can fully capture whatever benefit the bigger plenum would introduce or one would need an adapted ecu software to capture it..

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    GT
    Whether the stock ECU's parameters can capture whatever benefit the bigger plenum would introduce is a separate topic - it is the insistance of the "break in"/ "adaptation" mileage which I can't buy !

    Proper tuners with engine dynos test various components like this plenum by power testing the engine, bolting the component on and then power testing again (after the second power test they will attempt to fine tune to maximise any gains) they DO NOT have to run the engine with the new widgit on the dyno for any length of time, this just does not happen, it doesn't work like that.The ECU will react instantly to something like this going to the optimal map for the extra airflow after only a few full load power runs....

    This is how professional Porsche engine builders with 250K engine dynos do it- but TBH with all the awesome butt dynos around here able to sense ~20hp on a 480hp engine suddenly kicking in after 40-200 miles the whole topic is a bit moot

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    for the record, i did not claim any time was required for me to notice an improvement. i do know my car was test driven by my mechanic after the plenum install (and thus before I got my hands on it), but probably not much more than 5 miles.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Yes, I believe that REVO is the one I was looking into as far as ECU upgrades goes. They seem to have done a better job than GIAC. We'll see though. I want to wait a few months to see what other Turbo owners have reported as far as dealerships being able to detect ECU changes despite the fact that they were supposedly "invisible" when reverted to stock mode.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Here are a few pictures of the IPD plenum pre-install

    Cast metal


    Looking inside, painted and designed with efficient airflow in mind


    Compare that with the OEM plastic plenum


    Not designed for airflow efficiency


    The view of the inside from the top


    Close up of my engine compartment with the OEM plenum removed


    Engine compartment without OEM plenum


    New IPD pleum in place. Notice that the cast metal matches the intake manifold too


    Another view of IPD plenum


    It took Cantrell Motorsport about 2.5 hours to install the plenum which should be pretty standard for tuner shops everywhere if they know what they're doing.

    My initial impressions although done before the ECU has had a chance to relearn the new parameters of the airflow efficiency brought on by the new plenum from IPD/RSS is very good. From a standstill, there's a noticable reduction in turbo lag when moving from a standstill. The engine seems to be slightly more eager to get up to speed. Bottom line is, I'm very happy with this modification and will definitely recommend anyone considering this mod to go ahead and get it. I have no plans to do a dyno at this time since I didn't have a chance to do a pre-dyno test. I should be able to compare stock vs modified soon if Larry gives me the opportunity to do so. I'll give a final report after the ECU has had a chance to adapt.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Atomic congrat bud, expect more improvement next time you go out for a ride. Revotechnik guys have spent months on this software and I believe it might just be the safest one out there. I know protomotive is also one best out there. But I will wait for a while as right now I am happy with my car's performance.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    I just recived my car from the dealer, with the plenum installed, the car feels more eager to accelerate, turbo lag is slightly reduced and the car revs more freely.

    Note my car has Statge 1 Ruf Kit

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Nearest dealer for Revotecknik is about 200 miles south of me.
    Probably not to practical. GIAC dealer/installer is almost around the corner from me. But I'm not going to jump through that hoop just yet anyway.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Out of curiosity, how much heavier is the cast metal IPD Plenum over the stock plastic one?

    Also, I wonder why they don't make the IPD one out of plastic, just with the air splitter at the bottom. I suppose they couldn't charge $$$$ for it if it were plastic

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    We'll compare the weight when Larry gets his. It's a bit heavier but not by much. Metal vs plastic.

    Larry, FYI, according to Greg at RSS, they've managed to get the REVO to optimize their programming for the IPD plenum.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    I have attempted to find more information on presicely what sort of "adaptation" a Motronic ECU carries out so that it can make the most power from a component which alledgedley flows a little more air (IPD plenum)
    Still a little vague and this is applicable for the 993tt Motronic M5.2 but the principle will be the same I'm sure.

    The knock control is inhibited until an intake air temperature of 25DegC is reached, once this temp has been breached the sensing system is armed but not active. It will only become activated at 5000rpm.
    If the knock sensors detect a knocking condition the ECU will retard the timing and back off boost until the knocking ceases. It will then adopt a more conservative boost versus rpm curve (this is the knock curve) slowly advancing the timing (this is the bit it can do very quickly and control very accurately) until knock is detected again....

    Using the above one can see that yes it certain could take a few miles to get the ECU to give you the best possible "knock curve" (boost vs rpm) with the maximum timing advance - how long is still difficult to guess, but if you drive at under 5000rpm or don't manage to get the intake air temp above 25DegC (77DegF) then it will never "adapt".

    My premise is that you run it hard to the limiter in loaded gears fully hot - I would think that in 3rd gear ~10 times would do the trick or a run up to 190mph through the gears using maximum revs in each would probably also suffice.

    I hope that gave some insight

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    [update]: It's been almost a week since I first got the IPD installed so I've managed to put a few miles in my Turbo since then. I can tell you guys that after about 50 miles, the powerband has noticably changed for the better. Previously there was a slight dip on power delivery going from a stop but that "dip" has disappeared! Although there's still a lag from a complete stop, it's not as apparent as it once was before. The plenum has definitely worked in ensuring a smoother power delivery throughout the powerband. I would give this "mod" two very enthusiastic thumbs up!

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    But do you notice the car being faster?

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    I have also installed the plenum and my observations are identicle to jasons, i feel that the car revs more freely, breathes easily, and is more eager to accelerate, and maybe a slight power gain. i would overall recomend it

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Yes, it's quicker as a result of the slight power bump.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Jason, something I've been pondering, is the actual transfer of marginal crank horsepower and it's implcation to wheel horsepower. I've ordered the CG exhaust and plenum which will be installed the end of April. If the increase in power is 40+ horsepower would not most of it hit the road given the drivetrain loss has already been accounted for prior to the upgrade. If this is the case, would it not make sense that the wheel horsepower increases by roughly 10% with this modification. This would be a very noticeable increase in felt power. Unless I don't fully appreciate drive train loss...would not all of the crank HP increase transfer to the road?
    By the way, thanks for your posts on this topic.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Quote:
    LoranTw said:
    Jason, something I've been pondering, is the actual transfer of marginal crank horsepower and it's implcation to wheel horsepower. I've ordered the CG exhaust and plenum which will be installed the end of April. If the increase in power is 40+ horsepower would not most of it hit the road given the drivetrain loss has already been accounted for prior to the upgrade. If this is the case, would it not make sense that the wheel horsepower increases by roughly 10% with this modification. This would be a very noticeable increase in felt power. Unless I don't fully appreciate drive train loss...would not all of the crank HP increase transfer to the road?
    By the way, thanks for your posts on this topic.



    Wayyy too much chat about the perceived benfits of the plenum and no real GPS analysis....
    TTurine has one on his Ruf 550 997tt and it performs just like a Ruf 550 997tt - NOT one with 40 extra hp....

    For sure the plenum is worth having for its price but expect 10-14PS (this is what Cragraphic have seen on the RS engine dyno on modded cars) and not peak power but elsewhere in the rev band - this is still CHEAP hp - but keep it in perspective

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    This dyno shows about what I expected - optimized flow up to peak torque and then no more gains. It essentially reduces lag and improves street responsiveness


    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    I recently noticed that Cargraphic have now incorporated the IPD Plenum into some of their bigger powerkits (kit 4 and 5):

    CG Site




    The EVO Intercoolers + IPD Penum yields an extra 25bhp and 15Nm torque - between kits 3 and 4. So Plenum on it's own is not going to be huge gains.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Quote:
    LoranTw said:
    Jason, something I've been pondering, is the actual transfer of marginal crank horsepower and it's implcation to wheel horsepower. I've ordered the CG exhaust and plenum which will be installed the end of April. If the increase in power is 40+ horsepower would not most of it hit the road given the drivetrain loss has already been accounted for prior to the upgrade. If this is the case, would it not make sense that the wheel horsepower increases by roughly 10% with this modification. This would be a very noticeable increase in felt power. Unless I don't fully appreciate drive train loss...would not all of the crank HP increase transfer to the road?
    By the way, thanks for your posts on this topic.



    Wayyy too much chat about the perceived benfits of the plenum and no real GPS analysis....
    TTurine has one on his Ruf 550 997tt and it performs just like a Ruf 550 997tt - NOT one with 40 extra hp....

    For sure the plenum is worth having for its price but expect 10-14PS (this is what Cragraphic have seen on the RS engine dyno on modded cars) and not peak power but elsewhere in the rev band - this is still CHEAP hp - but keep it in perspective


    I did mention that the plenum was being changed in conjunction with the Cargaphic exhaust mod...

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    So it would seem that the plenum is best used to reduce lag when using the bigger engine packages, such as the Ruf 650.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Guys, Power delivery is a little bit smoother, the car is more eager to accelerate, the boost kicks in about 50-100 rpms faster, my car use to come alive at about 1980-2000 rpm now it comes alive at 1900rpm exact!! for the power gains, its only slight but there is a gain for sure but as Tb993tt stated 9-14hp , i would even say the gains might be a little less. overall it was a nice complement to my cars performance package since it gave me smoother power delivery. and as crash said it might also give better results with higher hp engines, anyways for you guys running stock just dont expect that 40hp bump

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    Article from european car is re the cayman but still thought it was worth posting here. It's the only test of the IPD plenum that I know of from a magazine. IMO the gains are magnified in a Turbo Charged car.

    "This is one of the surprising areas where Porsche left untapped ability. It seems like a simple enough part , but the IPD plenum has been shown to make power on all Porsche platforms.

    PROS: Easy Install and good bang for the buck
    Noticebale improvement in performance"


    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    P2

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    47 peak ft lbs gain on a stock Turbo. That's huge.

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    I'd do it if I didn't already have an ECU mod.

    To be honest I have more than enough power now. The tyres are struggling to put it all down on the road even in dry conditions. Plus more torque and my clutch life could be measured in minutes and not months

    Maybe in a year or two. Next mod will probably be Bilstein's, then upgraded Sachs clutch, then perhaps the Plenum. By then the prices should have dropped too.

    I do kinda like the idea though that my ECU has been tuned and tested with the exact set-up I have now. Going off the CG road-map might have disadvantages

    Re: The result of IPD Plenum + Exhaust

    So IPD Y pipe definately makes power and should be an addition to any kit ???

     
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