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    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    I got bored with the taycan after 4h's of having one from my dealer.....it wears off really quick.....I would choose any petrol Porsche over it - there is zero soul in this car.


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    the-missile:

    if a 2.2 tons sporty car with electrified heart is reacting the same way as a 911 flagship in regards to acceleration is not astonishing then what else do you need? indecision

     

    That is true - but of course, this is only true for the fraction you press the throttle. Afterwards, the 992 turbo s feels quicker and it also is substantially quicker. Plus, in curves (or even on the track) the 992 turbo s is much faster as well.

    In summary: one should not expect wonders from the Taycan turbo S in terms of driving dynamics (straight line or track( - but it is an excellent and very refined product that can make a lot of sense as a daily driver. If you can live with the limited range and if you have a good charger at hand on a daily basis Smiley


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    BjoernB:

    I got bored with the taycan after 4h's of having one from my dealer.....it wears off really quick.....I would choose any petrol Porsche over it - there is zero soul in this car.

    I think 761hp on such a car is a waste Smiley put that power to a proper engine not a motor.

    I see it a good people mover and the base Taycan should be more than enough for this. But as PAG is greedy, they keep the EV acceleration advantage to the flagship version which cost twice the car it is supposed to be.

    other than that, it drives well, looks cool and it is well finished.

     

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    W8MM:
    RC:

    Have you seen the video? Nothing more to say. On a country road and even on the Autobahn, the Taycan Turbo S would instantly pull away...until the 911 Turbo S plays catch-up. Instant acceleration without lag, worth gold. 

    Several years ago, I traded cars with my wife for a day.  She was driving my Panamera Turbo, I was driving her 2012 Tesla model S. 

    She told me she would never drive the Panamera again.  She said it almost killed her because of the hesitation when she attempted to pull across a heavily travelled highway to join perpendicular traffic.

    After getting used to EV throttle response, it's very difficult to go back.

    Smiley Every time I switch directly from my Huracan Performante to my daily driver GLC 63S AMG, I think something is wrong with the throttle. Smiley I usually switch to Sport + mode directly, so the difference isn't that big. I usually drive the GLC in Individual mode with a reduced throttle response in the city because it consumes much less fuel and I do not need a sporty setup inside the city. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    BjoernB:

    I got bored with the taycan after 4h's of having one from my dealer.....it wears off really quick.....I would choose any petrol Porsche over it - there is zero soul in this car.

    I would never own only a Taycan Turbo S, I agree. I would want one as a daily driver though or maybe even as a travel car...if the range would be acceptable (which it isn't).

    For me, an EV is a driving gadget, not really a car, it is difficult to explain but in no EV I was driving (incl. the Taycan), I actually had an emotional sports car like feeling, very different from a 911 or my Lambo. Still: For me, as a techie/nerd/whatever, the Taycan is fun in it's own way.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    the-missile:
    BjoernB:

    I got bored with the taycan after 4h's of having one from my dealer.....it wears off really quick.....I would choose any petrol Porsche over it - there is zero soul in this car.

    I think 761hp on such a car is a waste Smiley put that power to a proper engine not a motor.

    I see it a good people mover and the base Taycan should be more than enough for this. But as PAG is greedy, they keep the EV acceleration advantage to the flagship version which cost twice the car it is supposed to be.

    other than that, it drives well, looks cool and it is well finished.

    The Taycan Turbo S is way too expensive, indeed. For half the price, this car would have not only sold like crazy but also started an EV revolution in this segment. VW Group wants profit, not innovation. This is why they may fail.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    RC:
     

    The Taycan Turbo S is way too expensive, indeed. For half the price, this car would have not only sold like crazy but also started an EV revolution in this segment. VW Group wants profit, not innovation. This is why they may fail.

    it is indeed failing already....still some GT3RS to sale at local dealer...currently collecting dust.Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    RC:
    BjoernB:

    I got bored with the taycan after 4h's of having one from my dealer.....it wears off really quick.....I would choose any petrol Porsche over it - there is zero soul in this car.

    I would never own only a Taycan Turbo S, I agree. I would want one as a daily driver though or maybe even as a travel car...if the range would be acceptable (which it isn't).

    For me, an EV is a driving gadget, not really a car, it is difficult to explain but in no EV I was driving (incl. the Taycan), I actually had an emotional sports car like feeling, very different from a 911 or my Lambo. Still: For me, as a techie/nerd/whatever, the Taycan is fun in it's own way.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    It will be a long wait for an EV to match the drama and feel of a Lambo or even 911. You are in both a fortunate and unfortunate position. 
    The comparison between my old Turbo and my EV is not so simple because my Turbo is much older. It has emotion but it is horribly slow by comparison and clumsy. 


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    BjoernB:

    I got bored with the taycan after 4h's of having one from my dealer.....it wears off really quick.....I would choose any petrol Porsche over it - there is zero soul in this car.

     

    Funny you said that. 

    I just did a round trip around the interior of my province, to my track then another town to meet some friends then another town to pick up my son and back. Like 1400km total and the longest drive was today where I drove 2 hours to pick up m son then another 4 to get home. Like 620km. I was in my Panamera turbo S, so the drive is super enjoyable, even when I put it in hybrid mode. Car alternately uses the engine or the e-motor as it please as, but when I step on it to pass, there was no hesitation even when running in e-mode, pressing push to pass isn't quite needed but it's fun just to do it a few times. Posted limit range from 80km/hr to 120km/hr, so travel speed is like from 115km/hr to like 160km/hr, no one really drives at the speed limit except the transport trucks or EVs. Came across plenty, the Kia one, the Hyundai one, the GM Bolts and Volts, even Leafs, of course Teslas. Granted not all of them are doing the big trip, they are likely just going from town to town.

    I know I will not enjoy that drive in the e-Tron, even if it has the range to do some of the legs. At those elevated speed, the e-motor is just going to drain the battery in no time. And yes, just like every time I drive those stretches of highway, there is an abandoned Model S on the side of the road. 

     

     


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    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    This is embarrassing and unacceptable.

    tesla-model-3-vs-porsche-taycan-turbo-hot-lap-track-results


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    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    How does this stack up to results published in other comparisons of these cars?


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Track Package for M3P

    Includes:

    · 4 x 20" X 9" Zero-G Performance wheels

    · 4 x Tesla logo center caps

    · 20 x Lug nut covers

    · 4 x 245/35ZR20 XL Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires wink

    · 4 x tire pressure sensors

    · 1 x front and rear high-performance brake pads

    · 1 x brake fluid replacement

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    The M3 base model (not the M3P) had the same track time as the Taycan Turbo. Given the price of the Turbo, this is unacceptable and embarrassing to the Porsche brand which holds itself out to be about performance value.enlightened


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    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Just not feeling the EV vibe... When level 5 autonomy is really here that will change things for me


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    nberry:

    The M3 base model (not the M3P) had the same track time as the Taycan Turbo. Given the price of the Turbo, this is unacceptable and embarrassing to the Porsche brand which holds itself out to be about performance value.enlightened

    Leave the marque and purchase a Model 3 Performance with Track Pack then.  That’s the beauty of a market-based economy.  


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    @nberry

    The Model 3 from that test was a M3P w/ track package with cup2, not a base one.

    The Taycan Turbo S can handle about 1.5 Nordschleife laps before overheating...so probably 10-12 laps on that circuit. Not that bad, for a 2300kg luxury vehicle.

    How many can a M3P /w TP do? Smiley

    It's funny they used the Model S for drag and a M3 with semi-slicks for circuit...Trying to beat Porsche at all costs Smiley


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    nberry:

    This is embarrassing and unacceptable.

    tesla-model-3-vs-porsche-taycan-turbo-hot-lap-track-results

     

    You mean this section?

    "The Taycan Turbo also did well on its battery endurance test, running 452 km in one charge and impressively close to its NEDC rating of 462 km. In contrast, Tesla’s flagship sedan was able to run 505 km before it ran out of battery, 145 km less than its NEDC rating of 650 km."

    The rest of the performance test results are closer than per run variations. But 145 km is a good 25% less than rated. 


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    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    I don’t have a dog in this fight. I wouldn’t buy either of the cars. But Porsche is light years ahead of Tesla in just about every performance qualitative measurement. Yet this puny cobbled together Model3 at one third of the cost manages compete with the mighty Porsche which has  significant more resources and engineering prowess. 
     

    Just maybe the US engineering is better than the ROW thinks? It’s reminiscent of the wine battles. The French and European wines were considered far superior to California wines until they ran a wine tasting test comprised of European judges. Head to head just like the wines, the Porsche juggernaut fell flat on its face. 
     

    Better to accept this fact now. American exceptionalism is far ahead of the ROW when they put their minds to it. Get off your high horses and bow to the reality.  


    --

    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    nberry:

    This is embarrassing and unacceptable.

    tesla-model-3-vs-porsche-taycan-turbo-hot-lap-track-results

    The Cup tires on the Tesla would typically bring an advantage of 1-2s (on a track of the type they used).

    Thus, with comparable tires the Taycan (normal turbo not the s) is approx 1-2 seconds faster than a Track Package Tesla. Sounds reasonable to me.

     

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    nberry:

    I don’t have a dog in this fight. I wouldn’t buy either of the cars. But Porsche is light years ahead of Tesla in just about every performance qualitative measurement. Yet this puny cobbled together Model3 at one third of the cost manages compete with the mighty Porsche which has  significant more resources and engineering prowess. 
     

    Just maybe the US engineering is better than the ROW thinks? It’s reminiscent of the wine battles. The French and European wines were considered far superior to California wines until they ran a wine tasting test comprised of European judges. Head to head just like the wines, the Porsche juggernaut fell flat on its face. 
     

    Better to accept this fact now. American exceptionalism is far ahead of the ROW when they put their minds to it. Get off your high horses and bow to the reality.  

     

    Performance characteristics of a electric motor is pretty much the same across all brands, they go from zero to max rpm in just about the same time and torque output profile is pretty much the same too for a given output, very unlike normal engine where one kind will rev faster than another and torque output for the rpm range will be vastly different. Some say it's a great performance leveller, it's just a commodity now. 

    The only separation would be the efficiency of the motor itself, while Tesla has bene claiming they have the most efficient one, this test shows that might have bene a lie, if they had a lead, that might not be there anymore or the margin is very slim now. 

    Give the car equal tires then the Taycan will be ahead again, but as I said, with electric motors, performance is just a commodity now. Heck, even my Panamera turbo S, the pig, just using the 130hp electric motor alone, can manage 0.5g acceleration from a stop light. 


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    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Nick, this is worse than I thought. Given what you posted, how can Porsche charge three times more for the Taycan Turbo? mail


    --

    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    nberry:

    Nick, this is worse than I thought. Given what you posted, how can Porsche charge three times more for the Taycan Turbo? mail

     

    How can Hermes charge 10 times what a Michael Kors handbag cost? Or even a Prada.

     


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    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Topspeed:

    @nberry

    The Model 3 from that test was a M3P w/ track package with cup2, not a base one.

    The Taycan Turbo S can handle about 1.5 Nordschleife laps before overheating...so probably 10-12 laps on that circuit. Not that bad, for a 2300kg luxury vehicle.

    How many can a M3P /w TP do? Smiley

    It's funny they used the Model S for drag and a M3 with semi-slicks for circuit...Trying to beat Porsche at all costs Smiley

    The stock tires on the performance at also very good and the model3 has shown not to lose performance thanks to much better battery management systems.  They drag raced it against a Taycan 4s and it actually held up better in repeated 1/4 mile races and beat it by a lot. 


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    nberry:

    Nick, this is worse than I thought. Given what you posted, how can Porsche charge three times more for the Taycan Turbo? mail

    It’s not that the Porsche is bad it is just expensive. The Tesla , well, I have been saying it is much more comparable to the Taycan when it comes to handling and battery management. It is insanely fast for what it costs and tons of fun. 
    The next S about to be release will turn up the heat on Porsche

    More comparison  https://insideevs.com/news/427417/video-tesla-model-3-beat-porsche-taycan/

     

     


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Whoopsy:
     

    How can Hermes charge 10 times what a Michael Kors handbag cost? Or even a Prada.

     

    Crafmanship, material used, know how and reputation...everything at some point which put Porsche to the best dollar spent for performance which is now not the case anymore...for EV, best dollar spent for performance is a new US manufacturer. sad. Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    nberry:

    Nick, this is worse than I thought. Given what you posted, how can Porsche charge three times more for the Taycan Turbo? mail

    How can someone compare a Tesla 3 with a Taycan? This is like comparing a Kia with a Bentley. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    the-missile:
    Whoopsy:
     

    How can Hermes charge 10 times what a Michael Kors handbag cost? Or even a Prada.

     

    Crafmanship, material used, know how and reputation...everything at some point which put Porsche to the best dollar spent for performance which is now not the case anymore...for EV, best dollar spent for performance is a new US manufacturer. sad. Smiley

    Porsche only excels in build quality, design and (maybe) sportiness/endurance. Not enough for such a high price tag I'm afraid. 

    I said it before: Porsche made a mistake with the Taycan pricing but I guess they need to learn this the hard way.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    RC:

    Porsche only excels in build quality, design and (maybe) sportiness/endurance. Not enough for such a high price tag I'm afraid. 

    I said it before: Porsche made a mistake with the Taycan pricing but I guess they need to learn this the hard way.

    Many others excel now in build quality.

    Design is still one of their force but it depends for which model...

    Sportiness/endurance is still at their advantage but depends for which model.

    Price tag, they are completely wrong in the entire catalog. Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    All good opinions, which I respect.  Here are mine:

    1.  Porsche Taycan Turbo is. a fine car, worth its price, and Tesla Performance is a fine car, worth its price.  Each car has different attributes, offers different driving and lifestyle experiences, and will be purchased by different consumers (or both by the same consumer).  

    2.  Porsche is primarily, at it core, a sportscar manufacturer.  Tesla, at its core, is primarily an electric car manufacturer, with the goal of providing unique, efficient, strongly performing automobiles for a broader consumer market.  

    3.  The success of Tesla in its markets does not diminish Porsche, nor does success by Porsche in its markets diminish Tesla.


    Re: Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review

    Not just the Taycan, but everything Porsche makes is up there and a bit wacky on pricing. It's been going on since the 991 so there is nothing new. 

    Porsche is testing their brand power to see how high they can go. If people keep buying them then they will keep doing it. From their sales figures, it seems to be ok.

    Electric cars at the end of the day are just transportation devices. Strictly speaking, even Teslas are over priced. Why pay so much when a Bolt, a eSoul, a Leaf, etc will do the job for daily city driving? Heck with home charing overnight, even the electric Mini will be enough. 

    Electric car segment now turns out to be similar to the smart phone market, like Apple, Porsche isn't the first to market, but they have entrenched themselves at the top of the food chain where there is the biggest profit margin to be had. The mainstream car makers are like the Chinese Android makers and have taken over the low end, leaving the middle part to Tesla aka Samsung. But that middle part isn't theirs alone as other products are coming in in the coming months, years to compete. 


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