Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Re: Useful reality vs the real thing. 997 vs 997S

    All this can't afford stuff is really bullshi*,i could buy the 997s specced to circa 75k(gbp)but will probably go for the 997 carrera specced to circa 63k(gbp)...reason.Well at the moment i have a boxster s and friends have 2.7's..on the road there is very little difference in real world performance regardless of who is driving either car.The bhp/ton differences between the 2.7 and the s are very nearly identical to that of the carrera and the carrera s , so i can assume that the performance differences will be of a similar nature.As for the pasm ,i don't want/need it the 30bhp difference is negated by driver skill and reaction time and i'm not buying the car so that "i'll have a better 997 than you".My love is of porsche as a heritage and it stems from childhood not from the desire to be seen as wealthy or to pose for all to see........some of you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee .....just my two penneth. are so off base here.....

    Moogle said:
    to each his own, the only car you can go WRONG with in Porsche's entire range today are the

    C4S Cabrio (wayyy too much pose factor)

    OK, time for me to jump on you about this ridiculous comment. I sold a '99 996 C2Cab and bought the '04 C4S Cab. Why? The lines of the C4S Cab just grabbed me. I had an option to get the TT Cab, but in Guards Red, when I saw one, the lines were not the same to my eye....looks better as a TT Coupe. Plus due to my driving habits, I don't think I'd really get the maximum out of the TT Cab.

    I drive my Porsche everyday in mostly city traffic (not bad in Charlotte compared to NYC). I get it out on the highway periodically for a spirited jaunt as well.

    The '04 C4S Cab is a limited production vehicle. I did not buy it for this reason, nor do I expect to see values rise with time. Just that I don't expect to see it on every corner either, and I got one helluva deal on my order too, due mostly to relationships and timing.

    I drive my car all the time. I am no poseur, as you may suggest by the car I drive. Not here to slam any other models either. It's just that the C4S Cab offers exactly the package I was looking for to 'move up' from my earlier C2 Cab. Full leather package, improved suspension, wider wheels/tires, a small bump in hp, all wheel drive, great traction and handling, and a beautiful ride.

    Not sure where you are coming from with your 'poseur' suggestion, but it is way off base here. Now if I put a Turbo logo on the car, you could convince me of poseur factor.

    Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what others think about the car I drive.

    Re: are so off base here.....

    Turbo body, without the turbo = Poseur car. Sorry, just my opinion...

    Re: are so off base here.....

    orchard21 said:
    Turbo body, without the turbo = Poseur car. Sorry, just my opinion...

    While I'm sure the body similarity to the Turbo is on the minds of many C4S buyers, it seems a shame to put the poser label on all owners. Wouldn't it be possible to appreciate the shape of the C4S for itself, without reference to the Turbo?

    Re: are so off base here.....

    I dont think any of the porsche cars are co called posers cars.

    I can also argue that any 4 wheel drive (yes I have TT996 too) is a "poser" car to some extend, since if you know the right racing technique (which this is what the sport car should be about) you would hate to drive 4 wheel drive on the track and actually in the real life too. The argument of safety doesnt hold, since if you know how to manage the car weight (and you only can learn it on the track through many hours of driving/racing) you should achieve better handling with just rear wheel drive.

    As as a separate note I think 996 4s and particulary 996 4s cab is the best Porsche for odinary person (doesnt track the car, drives daily though) from the value and driving characteristics. Of course this is for 996 model line.

    Re: are so off base here.....

    Not to mention that PCNA does not import the narrowbody C4 over to the states so if you want AWD in your carrera, even if you like the shape of the C4S indep of the turbo, you have to get the C4S. So a lot of buyers of C4S also and/or only cjose the C$S because they wanted AWD in the N/A carrera.

    Re: Moogle - why so dogmatic?

    Moogle said:
    theres always the 'street credit factor' and that alone should be worth it .

    Sounds like this one is for NBA players

    Re: are so off base here.....

    orchard21 said:
    Turbo body, without the turbo = Poseur car. Sorry, just my opinion...

    Nope. No gills. No turbo wing. No turbo body. Not poseur car. Sorry.

    Now maybe a body kit from TechArt with side scoops and a few other tricks, and you'd be right on. But not stock, as is.

    Re: are so off base here.....

    orchard21 said:
    Turbo body, without the turbo = Poseur car. Sorry, just my opinion...

    This is the most rediculous comment I have ever read. It is easy to overlook the fact that suspension and brakes are as critical to performance as the engine.

    Anyone who doesn't recognize that the upgraded brakes and suspension on the C4S are true performance upgrades over the base 911 is showing their ignorance (or maybe, they are the poseurs).

    Forget the "turbo-look" body...that's just the icing on the cake that puts that performance into a great-looking package.

    Re: are so off base here.....

    I agree with Eric here,
    I drive a C4C and of course it is not as "focused" as a coupe Carrera 2, but I love the top down experience, I don't take my car to the track enough to justify a coupe over the pleasure I get from the cab.
    I bought the 4 purely for added safety only to realise that it is not necessarily the case.
    But although I like driving top down, I do not consider myself a poser at all.
    I definitly DRIVE my car too
    Anyway, to each his own, don't judge too fast Moogle.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    Barrett said:

    Dr. Porsche once said that Porsches weren't cars that were something for everyone, but rather, that they were cars that were everything to someone.

    Nice quote. Brings a tear to my eye. Thanks Dr. Porsche!!!

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    Barrett said:
    But where does this logic begin or end?

    If I could buy a $60K car, why can't I just shell out another $10K for a $70K car? But then, if I can shell out $70K, why not $80K, and so on?

    The logic ends like this: I want the best Porsche has to offer. The Carerra GT is too much $$$ for ME to spend on a car.

    The 911 is what I want and can afford. I buy the best of what I can afford, or want to spend. $10K more is "nothing," it's like a cheap tip a waiter on an $80K tab.

    Sorry to sound arrogant or snobby, I'm not really, I'm just being blunt because it's easier to get your point across when typing everything out.

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    well the Carrera was all along the only standard model before the 997 came out. so saying the base model is a poser is plain stupid. Also, if people think the standard model is in everyway inferior to the "S", then why not buy a Turbo or a GT3? or even better a GT3RS or Turbo S?

    Re: Budget version vs the real thing.

    Well, I have had a base 997 for two years now and my brother has had a "s" for 18 months. He has a drive in mine from time to time and says that the "s" has a little more torque but he is still adamant that the mine still feels better to drive. So there you go both great cars which ever one you choose.

    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    Hello Moogle,

    Much of the power increase of the S is due to displacement......but on reliability, there is no evidence or specifications that the oil-seal issues that troubled the 996 have been handled any differently or better on the 3.8 than the 3.6. The redesigned seals are used on both cars......... wish-full thinking!


    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    Exactly, i don't think there is any difference in reliability.
    Ok, let me give you my 2 cents: i was initially very happy to have gone with the C2S but i have spent quite a bot of time in the car since it's my daily driver rain or shine and now has snow tires on.
    On the 997S i find the PASM really useless at the sport setting, it is just too jarring and bouncy on regular back roads and am still trying to find its use other than on a track that i really don't have the time and money to go to esp. in case of a crash. The sport setting on the throttle was cute at first but honestly i rarely use it and when i do it's more of an annoyance until i go back to the regular setting. The PASM is comfortable but you can definitely sense it is not a regular nice old fashioned suspension at times when you are on initial transitions etc. so i think the regular suspension would be fine.
    The 19's look nice but again i think the 18's that i drove on the 997 are perfectly fine and overall are more comfortable day in day out.
    The exhaust tip on the S is a joke since they are fake 1-into-2 and from that sense the non-S are more elegant unless you get the sports exhaust which is probably too loud since i find the S exhaust already to be loud enough.
    The torque is nice to have but i think having a little less would not be the end of the world in this car, as it is i rarely used 5th gear on the hwy, goes from 4th to 6th.
    Importantly, i like the black dials on the non-S much much better than the white ones on the S.
    Finally i am not sure that the S was that much faster than the non-S on the Weissach track.
    So for a daily driver i think more now than when i first went with the S than the 997 with Xenons would be a fine car that one would not regret, if one were honest with oneself and one's sensory feedback rather than marketing mumbo jumbo.
    Finally the adaptive seats i would probably chuck next time for regular sport seats.
    Voila, i feel today than a 997 would have done fine after driving the S for a few months everyday, something that is difficult to imagine for me back when i was comparison shopping....

    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    One more thing i forgot to mention is the lack of limited slip on the S which really infuriates me when i have found myself spinning the inside wheel on a rainy surface or after hard acceleration from a sharp turn and let me tell you that single omission on the US market does more to hurt the S's image than anything else anyone care to mention. It chafes my butt to no end...
    If Porsche wants to get serios about the S they should offer an LSD and until then that S vs. non-S is even less convincing.

    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    How did this old dog get resurrected? It went almost three years before a new post.

    Re: I'm getting the S because it has an S on the rear...

    sorry if there's a new post for this thread. but i wanna bring this up since i'm deciding to purschase a 911 before 08 and this topic has the most comments i was looking for. However, after all the comments and sales figures.. i think i'm down to one option. the "S" version!! well, i'll still be very happy to own either one.



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