Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Jul 7, 2005 9:29:43 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12550, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002

    Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Note also the price-independent rankings toward the back...

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=1949&page_number=1

    Jul 8, 2005 12:57:09 AM

    Dr. Phil Offline
    Rennteam Master
    Dr. Phil
    Loc: Denmark , Denmark
    Posts: 5884, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 30, 2004
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Hmmm...5 out of 8 editors picked the 987---but somehow the Corvette ended up winning?
    How convenient.
    I like the way these american mags always seem to pull out the "value for money" card at these tests. Lets face it. If you want only value for money, and start being sensible about cars, considering sportscars is pretty much a ship that's sailed, isnt it?

    Jul 8, 2005 12:59:02 AM

    nberry Offline
    Rennteam VIP
    nberry
    Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States
    Posts: 13709, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Well it only proves what we known all along. The 911 is overpriced.

    Oh and before someone jumps in with yada yada the Ferrari is really overpriced, keep in mind the reale values of the respective cars.

    Jul 8, 2005 1:07:07 AM

    911fan
    Senior
    911fan
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 554, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 20, 2005
    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Alot of people wrote to R & T complaining about the Vette winning. It does seem silly that all the people picked the 987 or 911 yet neither won.

    Jul 8, 2005 1:33:54 AM

    AndyM
    Senior
    AndyM
    Loc: Durham, NH (UNH)
    Posts: 731, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2005
    Reply to: 911fan

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    I'd chose the 997

    Jul 8, 2005 1:35:15 AM

    Atzporsche
    Rennteam VIP
    Atzporsche
    Loc: Vancouver , Canada
    Posts: 9118, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2005
    Reply to: 911fan

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    there;s a quite interesting pattern as to what kind of people buy corvettes..

    Jul 8, 2005 4:58:07 AM

    sdy284
    Expert
    sdy284
    Loc: Wisconsin, USA
    Posts: 1348, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 7, 2005
    Reply to: Atzporsche

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    god, i got so mad when i read this article a few months ago

    Jul 8, 2005 6:10:04 AM

    Justin
    Veteran
    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts: 979, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    I know which one I would pick.

    But daily drivability and overall usage was not a concern of mine, only driving excitement. I'd also pick the 987 if I had to factor in refinement.

    Why get so mad about this article? Who wins the final rankings hardly matters. If you really need the ego boost, you can factor in the price independant rankings, or modify the points to suit your individual preferences. The only people tricked by these comparison tests are those who don't know what they want.

    - J

    Jul 8, 2005 8:00:41 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    I know which one I would pick.

    But daily drivability and overall usage was not a concern of mine, only driving excitement.
    - J



    Lotus Elise, right?

    Jul 8, 2005 9:25:26 PM

    sdy284
    Expert
    sdy284
    Loc: Wisconsin, USA
    Posts: 1348, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 7, 2005
    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    I know which one I would pick.

    But daily drivability and overall usage was not a concern of mine, only driving excitement. I'd also pick the 987 if I had to factor in refinement.

    Why get so mad about this article? Who wins the final rankings hardly matters. If you really need the ego boost, you can factor in the price independant rankings, or modify the points to suit your individual preferences. The only people tricked by these comparison tests are those who don't know what they want.

    - J



    I get mad because people who dont know as much about cars now think that the corvette is the better sports car, because it "won"

    plus my buddy is a vette guy, so naturally, he rubbed it in my face

    Jul 8, 2005 10:09:21 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: sdy284

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag


    R&T is such a pathetic shell of a sports car magazine that I can't take them seriously.

    First, its a self proclaimed road and track magazine that
    ludicously asks itself "what is a sports car?"

    Then, it compares sports cars and GT Cars of differing weights, powers and dimensions in a vain glorious editorial attempt to proclaim the "Best Sports Car."

    Lastly, they omit to test the one genuine "no prisoners taken" sports car - The Morgan.

    Their newer editors dont have the resume to be making any such proclamations and their older staff should know better.

    Please Road and Track, just fade away quietly.....

    Jul 8, 2005 10:12:25 PM

    Yargk
    Pilot
    Yargk
    Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA
    Posts: 486, Gallery
    Registered on: May 18, 2003
    Reply to: sdy284

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Quote:
    sdy284 said:
    god, i got so mad when i read this article a few months ago



    Just show your Corvette buddy that before they included price, his corvette got beaten by both a boxster and a 911.

    Jul 8, 2005 10:33:11 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: Yargk

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    The Lotus Elise is the obvious winner if you factor in performance, money and viesceral feel.

    Alas, its not a ooooh soooo comfy bloated plush box like their so editors openly state they prefer.

    The Lotus is a actual sports car. The others are just
    GT cars that handle and go very well.

    Jul 8, 2005 11:00:50 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:

    R&T is such a pathetic shell of a sports car magazine that I can't take them seriously.

    Their newer editors dont have the resume to be making any such proclamations and their older staff should know better.




    Yeh! Bring back David E. Davis Jr. (?)

    Ooops! He was at C&D, right?

    Jul 10, 2005 4:40:03 AM

    Justin
    Veteran
    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts: 979, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    You're correct Fritz! The design philosophy suits me quite well.

    Jim,
    I tend to agree with you, but the Boxster S does turn pretty good laptimes. Once the revs drop below 6k on the Elise, you tend to lose a lot of momentum. That's probably the biggest weakness of the car in a track setting, but if Boxster S drivers pass me, it's ok. I'm probably having more fun. Puts a smile on my face.

    I do hope that such focused cars as the Elise, GT3, Stradale, etc. will continue to be made for years to come.

    - J

    Jul 11, 2005 6:54:37 PM

    RR4
    Senior
    RR4
    Loc:
    Posts: 608, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 7, 2003
    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Nberry,

    One of the reason the F car may have a higher resale value is in part due to the fact that to most "owners" they are treated as Garage Queens. If they were driven like P cars it would be a different story.

    Jul 13, 2005 5:35:52 AM

    Fiorentina 1
    Newbie
    Fiorentina 1
    Loc: Calabasas Hills, Ca
    Posts: 18, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 5, 2005
    Reply to: RR4

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    I like the Lotus Elise bit with the shifter kart.

    Jul 13, 2005 11:07:17 AM

    Ferdie
    Rennteam VIP
    Ferdie
    Loc: Europe , Germany
    Posts: 8216, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 2, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The Lotus Elise is the obvious winner if you factor in performance, money and viesceral feel.
    ...



    Lotus presented a small-editioned supercharged Exige with 240hp. I'd say that things get better and better at Lotus, this car might REALLY be a serious machine. The Toyota I-4 is already a big improvement but in my eyes not gone too far. There are some companies offering conversions for Elise and Exige to install Honda's I-4 as used in Civic or S2000. Beyond 200 hp in an n/a-engine!

    Jul 13, 2005 5:19:32 PM

    Justin
    Veteran
    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts: 979, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Lotus presented a small-editioned supercharged Exige with 240hp. I'd say that things get better and better at Lotus, this car might REALLY be a serious machine. The Toyota I-4 is already a big improvement but in my eyes not gone too far. There are some companies offering conversions for Elise and Exige to install Honda's I-4 as used in Civic or S2000. Beyond 200 hp in an n/a-engine!



    My hope is that Lotus is currently in a similar position as Porsche was, when the Boxster first came out. Lotus isn't going to grow to as many markets or ship as many different models, but it certainly seems like the turning point in the company. From here, Lotus has a chance to become a more prominant sports car manufacturer.

    Before the Elise arrived in the U.S., they were shipping around 75 Esprits per year for our market, and all of a sudden they are shipping 2500. In addition to that, Lotus Sport has been producing some interesting cars for Europe and Asia like the Sport Exige and the 240R.

    It's rumored that Lotus will introduce a new model before the Esprit replacement arrives, which could be a 2+2 GT with 300hp.

    VW is thinking of buying Lotus parent company, Proton, which would mean more engine choices for them. Right now they have to ask Toyota for engines. Maybe even joint development bewteen Lambo and Lotus?

    To sustain Elise/Exige sales in the meanwhile, I'm hoping Lotus decides to sell S/C conversion kits so that we can have 240hp models.

    - J

    Jul 14, 2005 1:05:27 AM

    Justin
    Veteran
    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts: 979, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Best Overall Sports Car Test - R&T Mag

    Actually, it's come to my attention that the latest Autocar has a nice article on the future of Lotus.

    - new Europa
    - new 1300 kg Esprit, with either Supercharged Toyota V8 or AMG motor
    - new Elise derivatives, including a very track biased version

    - J
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 12/8/23 11:25 PM
    GnilM     		302504 1704
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 11/18/23 11:46 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		267984 551
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		194541 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 12/6/23 11:50 AM
    Porker     		118449 256
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 11/29/23 8:30 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 754427 1361
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		560877 3868
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/25/22 1:02 AM
    CGX car nut     		554057 2663
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/6/23 7:43 AM
    crayphile     		383321 1276
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 11/3/23 1:06 PM
    Wonderbar     		299176 1495
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		291865 797
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/11/23 11:50 AM
    Pilot     		240331 2394
    Porsche GT4RS 12/1/23 8:15 AM
    GnilM     		227961 1361
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/30/23 1:59 PM
    CGX car nut     		227006 724
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile     		182784 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 12/6/23 10:31 PM
    Enmanuel     		172884 620
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		163052 488
    Motor Sp. [2022] Formula 1 2/4/23 1:10 AM
    WhoopsyM     		158596 1576
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 153133 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		129011 346
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		54220 387
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi     		43583 219
    AMG Bought a muscle car... 3/26/23 3:31 PM
    WhoopsyM     		34919 303
    Porsche 992 Sport Classic 2/13/23 5:35 PM
    RCA     		29063 213
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		27479 101
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		26586 144
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/6/23 7:22 PM
    964C2     		26432 684
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt     		24758 141
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 11/21/23 2:47 PM
    the-missile     		23288 272
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 12/9/23 11:35 PM
    CGX car nut     		20054 185
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 8/30/23 6:51 PM
    art.italy     		15755 297
    139 items found, displaying 1 to 30.