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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I am impressed by the efforts, time and costs you and the "group" put into this letter - I fully agree with your request for a better communication from Porsche and even though I may only be someone following what is happening as I do not own a 991 GT3, I find it a bit "unfortunate" that the letter involving a 100+ 991 GT3 owners or owners-to-be ends with this compensation matrix. I am aware that you have to talk about financial compensation for not having or not being able to use the car - still, it looks like, at the end, it is only all about money and not the comfort or satisfaction you would like to get from Porsche. Don't get me wrong, I am convinced that Porsche has done and is still doing a poor PR and marketing job on this issue, but what is it really, what one is looking for ? 1.000,00, ? 2.000,00 ? in whatever currency - If I were in the position to own a 991 GT3, I would want Porsche to really take car of my car (a 991 GT3) - speaking of myself, I doubt that pure maths, ie. a compensation matrix would work for me...my 2 cts...

    I will certainly keep fingers cross that this issue will receive a very happy ending soon. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mo. I agree the depreciation curve will possibly be different in your market as its a % function of the value of the car. Only one line on our matrix covers this but it is a consideration that may vary in $$$ value form market to market.

    The biggest single issue is "diminuative value"

    This may help answer d997h questions too.

    991 GT3 owners who already own the car (MY2014) will soon own a car with a replacement engine. All orders in PAGs system that are V250 or below have been stopped and will now be produced as MY2015 cars with the improved engine installed before they leave the factory.

    Apart from 4 months insurance, depreciation and lost warranty, tracker fees and registration etc that existing MY2014 owners will have lost by the time they can drive their car again there is also the issue that when they sell their cars they could be in for a rude surprise. Why would a buyer 2 years time prefer a MY2014 car with different engine number to original registration documents and the story and the dramas on the internet vs a MY2015 car without these issues assuming the price to be similar?

    To be fair for most it is the way they have been treated during this debacle. Many lost customers for Porsche.

    MO. if you get your 24K then please let us know here as I suspect that will be the highest compensation yet recieved by any client worldwide including Germany and UAE. Good luck with your negotiations!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    Why would a buyer 2 years time prefer a MY2014 car with different engine number to original registration documents and the story and the dramas on the internet vs a MY2015 car without these issues assuming the price to be similar?

    Just one comment on this one - Porsche would have sooooo screwed up, if and when something would happen with this new engine later on - I would deliberately not call it a "replacement engine" as a new engine is installed. Therefore, yes, I would not be concerned with the "new engine" as I would be telling myself that Porsche must have checked and double-checked again that these engines really really work....maybe, I am too naive in this respect, but I do still trust Porsche on their engineering know-how in general...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ^^^^^ Yeah. I hope you are right. Me - I would have preferred they got it right from the beginning like they did with my past 964RS, 993RS and 996.1 GT3. 

    Talk on the street suggests they are still having some issues signing off the "new engine". Vibration issues.

    The thing is if you test any engine hard enough like PAg are currently doing around their German facilities with the 991 GT3 engines (test till destruction) you will eventually find an issue. No engine design is devoid of some weakness if run hard long enough.

    Only history will tell if the 991 GT3 customer is the winner or the looser here but for a person who has invested his hard earned money in this car and already had it delivered it would be prudent not to take the risk and hedge the "diminuitive value" issue IMO.

    Lets hope PAg start communicating properly soon and tell us what is really happening....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    d997h:
    macca993:

    Why would a buyer 2 years time prefer a MY2014 car with different engine number to original registration documents and the story and the dramas on the internet vs a MY2015 car without these issues assuming the price to be similar?

    I would prefer the 2014 car because it will carry a piece of history. And the engineering will be as good as the newer ones, of course. After all, it is just a recall that has been exploded by the media because Porsche is a big name.

    Similarly, if someone blew his engine and had it properly replaced by the Porsche network, why would that affect the resale value? If I liked the spec I would buy it.

    People always look for opportunities to pinch some money. Human nature, I guess.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Reginos. What compensation have they offered you in Cyprus?

    Cat A compensation matrix has been based off of offers to German 991 GT3 owners. I understand the Swiss have also been offered a similar compensation. The UAE offer appears to be based on the German offer. In the USA they have been offered a flat $2K a month regardless of what category you are. In many many markets they have offered nothing.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    Reginos. What compensation have they offered you in Cyprus?

    I haven't ordered a GT3, unfortunately.

    They have 5 or 6 orders, none delivered prior to the fiasco. No one has cancelled due to the delay. The revised date given for delivery is 10/2014, as far as I know.

     

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Macca,

    I find your letter to be a reasonable approach towards Porsche and the dealer network to accelerate the issues. Can´t quite comprehend some of the resentment in the subsequent posts.

    If I may make some suggestions, and please take into consideration that those are entirely subjective, the letter should communicate your intentions in a more discernible manner, such as the actions you expect Porsche to take in response to your letter, as well as clarify whether this interest group is formed as a primary communication channel regarding these issues. It is also not entirely clear whether, in case of necessity, this interest group is established to further proceed legal actions which, given the various nationalities of the participating members, might not be possible anyhow?

    Anyway, good luck with it! kiss


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I cannot speak for the group which I decided not to join. However, I believe the letter summarizes the frustration level most GT3 stakeholders have with how the engine replacement problem has been handled to date. To Porsche's credit they are taking action to help address those frustrations with loaner cars and compensations packages but based on reports from different regions it has been haphazard and unequal. As I told the GT3 concierge, if there is a good reason for this please explain it to me and they will not hear me complain.

    Also, there has been a trickle of information as to when we will drive our cars. It has almost been three months since Porsche became aware of the problem and issued the stop sale. As of today, owners have no idea when they will receive their engine replacement nor what the impact will be regarding the resale value of the car. Porsche says that information will be forthcoming (maybe in the next three weeks) but we continue to wait. When I spec'ed my car it did not take Porsche long to give me a build date and delivery date. Certainly by now they should be able tell me when I will get my engine and car.

    From my standpoint, litigation is not a consideration. Porsche will call the shots and if they accept that GT3 owners are Porsche's brand ambassadors and devoted enthusiast they will treat them equally and fairly. It may be that Porsche will ignore the letter and if they do they will be compounding the mistakes they have made in the past regarding this car. 

    FWIW came across this from RL.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...pensation.html


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    IMHO idea for financial compensation as suggsted in the letter is a wrong move.

    I would ask something different from Porsche if I ordered or bought 991 GT3:

    -extended warranty to 7 years period

    -free service work for same period of 7 years(extended to second owner)

    -two free sets of tires for 991 GT3

    That way Porsche can show proper respect to 991 GT3 cosumers and their devotion to Porsche as a iconic brand


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ^^^^ Most GT3 owners will not own the car longer than say 3 years. 

    Warranty s in markets such as USA are already 4 years, in UK 3 years in NZ+Aus 3 years and in Europe mostly 2 years.

    Extending the warranty to 7 years for a European customer would mean extending in 9 years for a USA one. Its just not relevant enough to the first owner.

    Free service work also comes down to the same issue.

    With a cash compensation the consumer can choose to spend it on all of the above or anything they like like an overseas holiday for their wife who has put up with three months of their stress!

    It would be great to hear from more 991 GT3 onwers on here like nberry and Mo.

    As the letter states in its closing paragraph this group has been formed to improve communication and PAG are welcome to draw on our findings and research as they wish. That is of course if we even get engagement!

    This will not become legal. It may become viral but we are not a legal action group.

    Sometimes my friends you just have to stand up for what you believe in. If you have a 991 GT3 in your garage these last 10 weeks that you cannot drive you will understand our fustration I think...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I would like to offer some clarification on our efforts so far.

    1. The reason people have turned to the group is because they're not getting any information of significance from Porsche's regional distributors. The group could not exist if Porsche's customers were satisfied with the way PAG is handling communication and information. Porsche couldn't even keep to its own communication timetable for an update and, when it did come, it was inadequate.

    2. With members from all over the world who are supporting this initiative by sharing information and experiences, we have assembled a document archive of correspondence from different regions containing letters and emails.

    3. It's clear from correspondence that Porsche AG is coordinating matters centrally albeit some variances according to region.

    4. The Compensation Matrix is based on real offers of compensation that Porche's regional distributors have already made in their respective regions. It has been drafted following days of consultation with members who are genuine GT3 stakeholders in a private forum and reflects the feedback offered. Porsche has not only failed to consult with its customers but, having read feedback on forums across the world filled with complaints, has failed to take any action to address those complaints.

    5. We accept that the car is priced differently according to region however, following consultation, we agreed to create a simplified matrix rather than an unnecessarily complicated one. Again, this is with the Group's agreement following lengthy discussion and consultation. Bear in mind that the car is cheaper in UAE than the US but the customers in UAE are being offered twice as much than their American counterparts. That said, the car is approaching $400k in China and some members there are not so much concerned about compensation but whether they will have to pay the full price for the car when it's eventually delivered or the recently reduced price by some $50k. This is yet another example of Porsche not communicating with its customers but dictating to them.

    6. The numbers in the matrix are based on real numbers. In the US, customers who have paid $170k for the car are receiving the same $2k per month as customers who have a delayed order and placed a deposit of $5k. Taking the $2k as the base compensation for someone who has acted in reliance of receiving the car within a specific time period, we feel that is a generous offer, however that means the figure being offered to customers who have taken delivery are being under compensated. Customers who have paid and taken delivery of the car in Germany are being offered €175 Euros per day which is the figure we have taken for that category of customers worldwide because that is what Porsche is offering its home market. It was Porsche itself which set these parameters.

    We are all Porsche enthusiasts and not looking for a confrontation but it's about time Porsche addressed everyone's complaints. We have undertaken exactly what Porsche should have done in the first place; we have consulted with and listened to affected GT3 customers and written to Porsche AG/VW AG accordingly following agreement with the 100+ strong Group regarding the correspondence and compensation. To the contrary, Porsche has chosen not to communicate with or consult its customers but has chosen to dictate to them.

    The cost of the car has nothing to do with this matter. It's purely a consumer issue however some seem to take the view that customers' complaints would be more valid if the car was not as expensive. At the end of the day, we'd be over the moon to see the cars back on the road asap and we're all very sure that Porsche's engineering department is working on this around the clock. Porsche builds great cars but unfortunately its customer support does not measure up to that same standard.

    Kind Regards

    Sierra Mike & Macca



    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Something I read today:

    "Life on the Planet is getting very hard nowadays. An indication of this is the now infamous "Porsche GT3 Global Recall".

    A gigantic problem of cataclysmic proportions affecting an unspecified but large number of people and transcending  continents and nationalities from USA to UAE and from Sweden to China.

    The matter is compounded by increasing allegations of serious Human Rights Violations. The  German automotive giant VW is accused of basing the compensation offered on discriminatory criteria, like country of residence, nationality, religion and ethnic origin. Thus Arabs and Germans are getting more than US Citizens, even the Natural Born ones!  An unacceptable state of  affairs, so far considered unthinkable!

    The level of unfairness has even made a not very well known MEP (Member of European Parliament) to get off his sofa, make a bold statement and in courageous move join forces with the hordes of disenchanted victims of the "GT3 Global Recall".

    In a latest development, known Automotive Activist Nick Murray has been elected as Honourary Chairman and Chief Advisor of the "Anti-GT3 Global Recall Movement", by a voice vote."

     

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    ^^^ Love it!

    I should imagine that the majority of the world would think everyone on these boards as "Porsche driving W*nkers" regardless of model driven (they dont know which is which). Its something you learn to live with.

    3rd world problems.

    If it had have been the Cayenne/Macan and Soccer mums it might resonate differently OL


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    ^^^ Love it!

    Smiley I wonder what idiot wrote that Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"



    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    http://jalopnik.com/why-porsche-911-gt3-owners-are-still-super-pissed-off-1567011597

    Lol the comments on that link are worth reading alone. Epic. 


    --

    RS60 Spyder, 991 GT3 RS pending... :(


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In Switzerland they get 200 Sfr/Day - nice return....angry


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    In Spain they are getting one year extended warranty and that's it. Outrageous.


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos from Spain:

    In Spain they are getting one year extended warranty and that's it. Outrageous.

    What is the standard warranty period?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Bare minimum, just 2 years.


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos from Spain:

    Bare minimum, just 2 years.

    Thank you!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    So - in Spain you get 3/4 of the standard US warranty as a BONUS!  Guess someone should tell Porsche to at least kiss the Spanish if they are going to screw them...  (Why not screw the Swiss?  Hmmm...)

    The matrix is closing in on Porsche.  lol


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    So - in Spain you get 3/4 of the standard US warranty as a BONUS! 

    But the Spanish get 50% more warranty and the US only gets 25% more warranty, as each get an additional year.  Unfair bonus to the Spanish  Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Some info that I got last night from a good source. This week engine restarted, no new what is new is that they are doing 40 engines a day now thanks for shift ramp up. BUT they will only release 25 a day as they will the the bench testing and simulate about a 1000km. So from an engine production stand point all engines should be built by end of month. Out of the 25 day Switzerland is getting 2 a day so guess the US will get 4-6. The big variance will be the shipping overseas while for continental Europe that will be shorter so now I am planning to be out mid May. But here again even have my source calling the head office everyday there is not much information circulating. There is however certainty that the engines are being built no more issue. Finally two other friends order their car early this year one will get it soon while within a week of ordering the other friend got his car pushed to October 2015.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    philgva:

    Some info that I got last night from a good source. This week engine restarted, no new what is new is that they are doing 40 engines a day now thanks for shift ramp up. BUT they will only release 25 a day as they will the the bench testing and simulate about a 1000km. So from an engine production stand point all engines should be built by end of month. Out of the 25 day Switzerland is getting 2 a day so guess the US will get 4-6. The big variance will be the shipping overseas while for continental Europe that will be shorter so now I am planning to be out mid May. But here again even have my source calling the head office everyday there is not much information circulating. There is however certainty that the engines are being built no more issue. Finally two other friends order their car early this year one will get it soon while within a week of ordering the other friend got his car pushed to October 2015.

    If true that is good news. Forty engines a day would require 20 days to replace all the engines and hopefully be completed by mid May. We are told Porsche will let each of us know within two weeks of our approximate replacement date.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    October 2015?? Lol is that a joke.... It will be the only 'old' model amongst all the facelift cars. Technology moves on. The GT3 will be perceived as old technology at that time. 


    --

    RS60 Spyder, 991 GT3 RS on order... with VW engine :(


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    boytronic:

    October 2015?? Lol is that a joke.... It will be the only 'old' model amongst all the facelift cars. Technology moves on. The GT3 will be perceived as old technology at that time. 

    You are forgetting the coming RS   . Not out yet , will come with the old style , and all other facelifts out latest in one year.  I could forgive that if the car compensates with very unique and only to this model features. 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Translation using Google Chrome:
    Within a short time, GT3 owners have come together around the world. The "GT3 Worldwide Action Group" is now demanding uniform Porsche payment and information about when the cars are ready to drive again. Group founder Sunil Mehra writes in a press release: "The lack of information and resistance by the manufacturer has caused much frustration among our members."

    When asked by MOTOR-TALK Porsche took the situation position. "(...) The individual markets are subject to specific conditions such as local tax laws, import duties and currency differences on the basis of a generally similar information on the procedure in the compensation of our GT3 customers are our subsidiaries or authorized dealer organizations around the world to select the relevant information in the local market approach to satisfy the customer requirements in the context of the available options well.

    Our goal is to do everything we can to bring the GT3 cars that have been produced as quickly as possible back on the road, while minimizing the inconvenience this may have caused to the GT3 owners through this situation. According to these possibilities Porsche centers will continue to speak directly with all of our GT3 customer and look after their interests. "
    http://www.motor-talk.de/news/exklusiv-zwei-klasse...

    This is the first response we've seen by Porsche on the matter. Typical wordy PR response which, if you can be bothered to read it, means nothing at all other than it comes down to whatever they think will satisfy the customer in that market. 

     

    eXNVZQws (1).jpg


     
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