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    Roll Cage or NO?



    What are the main purpose of the roll cage?

    Why just half in most GT2/3?

    Roll cage makes the chassis stronger and handles better?

    Is it good to have roll cage for street/track cars?

    The half roll cage isn't light!

    Walter Röhrl doesn't use the roll cage in his RS.

    Official Porsches break the time record on Nürburgring don't have roll cages too.

    That's mean saving weight is the main factor for a sport car? Or Porsche chassis are strong enough?

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    To protect the occupants in addition to stiffen the chassis, especially for roll-over.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    All PCA DEs require rollbar cages once you get into the advanced run groups. Safety first, wieght consideration second.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    If you are going to track the car with any regularity (by this I mean more than a handful of times in total throughout the length of ownership) and do not have much need for the so called seats in the back, get the half cage.

    It is bolted into the chassis and will significantly strengthen and stiffen the car. It can be put in and out though it takes around an hour. If you are going to use harnesses in the car it is a must and new PCA regulations will NOT allow you to use harnesess without a roll bar and proper seats.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    "Walter Röhrl doesn't use the roll cage in his RS."

    Yea,--his comment is something like: "I drive on the wheels, not the roof."

    dan

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    No one intends to drive on the roof...

    There's an old track saying: "There are two types of fast drivers. Those that have hit the wall and those that will hit the wall." Often someone pipes up with "And those that will hit the wall again!"

    Most people can't drive a GT3 fast enough to make it a more worthwile car on the track. For many a 997 (or Cayman for that matter) would be an easier and therefore faster car to drive. If you are/can DRIVE a GT3 at or near it's limit (and I don't mean be a passenger in the drivers seat at the limit), there is every reason to have a cage in it.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    Mithras said:
    If you are going to track the car with any regularity (by this I mean more than a handful of times in total throughout the length of ownership) and do not have much need for the so called seats in the back, get the half cage.

    It is bolted into the chassis and will significantly strengthen and stiffen the car. It can be put in and out though it takes around an hour. If you are going to use harnesses in the car it is a must and new PCA regulations will NOT allow you to use harnesess without a roll bar and proper seats.



    I'm not sure to have the roll cage or not.

    I am gonna own the car for a long time and gonna track it 10-20 times per year.

    So mainly for street use.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    Dan L said:
    "Walter Röhrl doesn't use the roll cage in his RS."

    Yea,--his comment is something like: "I drive on the wheels, not the roof."

    dan



    That comment sounds cool, but I not quite understand the meaning.

    Anyone can explain to me?

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    997GT2 said:
    Quote:
    Mithras said:
    If you are going to track the car with any regularity (by this I mean more than a handful of times in total throughout the length of ownership) and do not have much need for the so called seats in the back, get the half cage.

    It is bolted into the chassis and will significantly strengthen and stiffen the car. It can be put in and out though it takes around an hour. If you are going to use harnesses in the car it is a must and new PCA regulations will NOT allow you to use harnesess without a roll bar and proper seats.



    I'm not sure to have the roll cage or not.

    I am gonna own the car for a long time and gonna track it 10-20 times per year.

    So mainly for street use.



    Will you be using the Carbon buckets or stock sport seats? Are you going to use 5-6-7 point harnesses?

    If you're tracking it 10-20 times a year I would assume that you would want harnesses but I know many very good and very fast drivers that don't bother (they however will never be able to fully wring their cars out and will always be leaving something on the table). At a certain point, driving with full race harnesses allows you to worry about driving and not staying in the seat (and stops you from hanging on to the steering wheel and using for what it's made for - Steering!)

    If you do choose to use harnesses, there is only one answer, you HAVE to have the cage (or other suitable harness bar, but why not get the other benefits of the cage at the same time?) and you HAVE to have either the Carbon 1 piece GT3 seats or a suitable substitute. Under no circumstances should you drive the car with a harness and stock sport seats, it's safer to use the 3-point ones.

    You can use the stock seats and belts with a cage. It won't hold you in the seat any better, but you will be safer in a roll or heavy impact and the car will be stiffer.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Mithras,

    Sounds like with Roll Cage is better for me.

    I feel bad about I didn't order my GT3 with CS package.

    So this time I gonna get the CGT seat!

    But I feel bad about the extra weight from the cage, that's about 18kg?

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    997GT2 said:
    Quote:
    Dan L said:
    "Walter Röhrl doesn't use the roll cage in his RS."

    Yea,--his comment is something like: "I drive on the wheels, not the roof."

    dan



    That comment sounds cool, but I not quite understand the meaning.

    Anyone can explain to me?



    The roll cage is meant to protect the driver from injury if a car rolls over.

    If it stays upright, i.e., on its wheels instead of its roof, a cage does not help.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Wouldn't a roll cage increase the car's stiffness?

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Wouldn't a roll cage increase the car's stiffness?



    That's true, but I think the weight gain is too much compared with the stiffness.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    That depends. On one hand you have about 35lbs extra weight, but if you have the carbon seats you lose almost that much so it's a wash really. If you are going to run slicks on the car when you track it (and most people I know do this with their 996GT3's. Buying slicks can be much cheaper than burning through street tires all the time) the extra stiffness will be very helpful. And again, if you are going to run with harnesses, you need the cage or something equivalent.

    I think (and this is if you are going to track the car) the matter is purely based on how you use the rear of the car. If you don't, then you don't need the space and you may as well put in the cage. If you always have stuff in there (briefcase, coat, groceries) then you will lose the space. If you can'[t live with that, then don't put it in.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    Mithras said:
    That depends. On one hand you have about 35lbs extra weight, but if you have the carbon seats you lose almost that much so it's a wash really. If you are going to run slicks on the car when you track it (and most people I know do this with their 996GT3's. Buying slicks can be much cheaper than burning through street tires all the time) the extra stiffness will be very helpful. And again, if you are going to run with harnesses, you need the cage or something equivalent.

    I think (and this is if you are going to track the car) the matter is purely based on how you use the rear of the car. If you don't, then you don't need the space and you may as well put in the cage. If you always have stuff in there (briefcase, coat, groceries) then you will lose the space. If you can'[t live with that, then don't put it in.



    Thanks.

    I don't really need the rear space.

    What I concern is the weight, but as you said I think just the safety reason is well enough to have one.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Wouldn't a roll cage increase the car's stiffness?



    Sure, but I was just interpreting the comment attributed to Walther Röhrl - as 997GT2 said he had not understood it fully - and WR did not appear to see any urgent need for additional body stiffness.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Wouldn't a roll cage increase the car's stiffness?



    Sure, but I was just interpreting the comment attributed to Walther Röhrl - as 997GT2 said he had not understood it fully - and WR did not appear to see any urgent need for additional body stiffness.



    I can feel when the car is lighter, so just wondering can you really FEEL the differeces after adding the roll cage?


    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    I think eating a heavy lunch (and the subsequent lethargic feeling) would have more of an effect... In realty there is very little chance that you will truly notice a 1 - 1.25% change in weight. On the other hand you will notice the 10%+ change in stiffness (especially if you use slicks). Put it this way, if you are looking for outright speed on a track, the car with a cage, harnesses and 40lbs heavier will be faster than a car with no cage and regular seats. Especially over the course of a long session where you will tire much faster with the regular belts. It's also safer and allows you to run the car more aggressively (both mentally, where you know you're safer) and physically where you can run a setup that is much harder on the car with less overall stress due to the cage (eg: slicks, stiffer springs, camber and toe).

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Mithras,

    I have heard some people don't like leather interior in their track cars, any reasons for that?

    I don't think leathers are really that heavy and hard to maintain right?

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    Mithras said:
    I think eating a heavy lunch (and the subsequent lethargic feeling) would have more of an effect... In realty there is very little chance that you will truly notice a 1 - 1.25% change in weight. On the other hand you will notice the 10%+ change in stiffness (especially if you use slicks). Put it this way, if you are looking for outright speed on a track, the car with a cage, harnesses and 40lbs heavier will be faster than a car with no cage and regular seats. Especially over the course of a long session where you will tire much faster with the regular belts. It's also safer and allows you to run the car more aggressively (both mentally, where you know you're safer) and physically where you can run a setup that is much harder on the car with less overall stress due to the cage (eg: slicks, stiffer springs, camber and toe).



    Thanks!

    Very useful comments!

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Leather is slippery and sweaty. Alcantara is neither, which makes it the superior choice. Alcantara also happens to be more durable and very easy to maintain.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    Leather is slippery and sweaty.




    I know that's the reason for the seat, but some people even don't want the door panels, dashboard in leather?


    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    I suppose it's faux snobbish purism.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    Quote:
    The Groom said:
    I suppose it's faux snobbish purism.



    I think so too.

    Re: Roll Cage or NO?

    I'd agree with the groom. Alcantara lets you slide around much less than leather. I don't know about its flame retardantsy though. All things being equal, leather is fairly flame-proof (for the length you need anyways). Suede is too. Alcantara though is fake suede and is a man made fabric. I don't know how flame-prone it is. I'd have to think it is less fireproof than leather though.

    In the type of track driving most of us would do with these cars though I don't think we really need to worry to much about the flame retardantsy of Alcantara... It's like the old saying about flame-retardant liners in helmets; "If the inside of your helmet is on fire it's probably the least of your worries..."

    People like Alcantara for the racer look much like carbon fiber. A race bucket in leather, Alcantara or cloth will all hold you down quite well. I like the tactile feel of Alcantara more than anything else.

     
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