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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    570S dead last for 0-60, the most important metric for North America.

    It beats the Turbo S to 100mph but the Turbo S came back to tie it at the 1/4 mile, another important metric for North Americans. 

    R8 came back to catch up to the 570S too for the 1/4 mile, losing 0.4 second at the 100 mph mark but ended up inly losing 0.1 second to the 1/4.

    R8 came out to be the best car for the buck!


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    You are really not a McLaren fan 


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    4trac:
    ALDO:

     We should drive the cars and not think about depreciation.

    THIS - should be on the Rennteam banner!!! Smiley   (better still, should be the mantra for FerrariChat.... but...Smiley

    HAHA. With McLaren's philosophy some might opt to drive it... right into a tree Smiley


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    That is kind of the upside to the depreciation -- you can do whatever you want with it and drive it as much as you want and it will have little effect on value.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Can't see the video...link is not available anymore, weird (not even the original link on the Top Gear site).


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Ignore the guy's accent (it drives me mad... angry) but he makes interesting and visually detailed reviews...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1h3UDU5O6E


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    bluelines:

    You are really not a McLaren fan 

     

    Not really wrong, but I still like the brand and the 570 is a fantastic car too, just that after the comparison the R8 just shows it is the best bargain consider he performance and the price. And the look, And the fact that RC has oneSmiley

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    bluelines:

    You are really not a McLaren fan 

     

    Not really wrong, but I still like the brand and the 570 is a fantastic car too, just that after the comparison the R8 just shows it is the best bargain consider he performance and the price. And the look, And the fact that RC has oneSmiley

     

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    Ignore the guy's accent (it drives me mad... angry) but he makes interesting and visually detailed reviews...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1h3UDU5O6E

    Based on the video there is for sure not more sound than in the turbo s...

    Also, the interior looks very poor, I feel: the loudspeakers, the interior console Smiley

    This McLaren entry-model is surely not made for me... 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I think you'd be hard pressed to prove the interior of the McLaren is poor quality. Whether you like the design or not that's another story. Fit and finish was perfect on 570S I drove. I'd wouldn't cover it in leather since I think exotics covered in leather look chubby, but that's just me.

    Sound-wise, the video isn't a good indication of it. It's obviously still a turbo at the end of the day just like every turbo car, but it's definitely not like this video. This video has overwhelming road and wind noise. Probably not exactly a studio reference set-up.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    bluelines:

    You are really not a McLaren fan 

     

    Not really wrong, but I still like the brand and the 570 is a fantastic car too, just that after the comparison the R8 just shows it is the best bargain consider he performance and the price. And the look, And the fact that RC has oneSmiley

     

    I don't think it's that much more of a bargain. It's a little bit slower, a bit less exotic looking, and actually not that far off in price if you don't spec the McLaren with $30K worth of CF. McLaren definitely has more storage space as well.

    It's nice how Audi has like no options for the R8 unlike how every exotic company nickles and dimes you, but the car I just spec'd recently was $200-205K depending on the colors I wanted. A 570S is maybe $10K more.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    I think you'd be hard pressed to prove the interior of the McLaren is poor quality. Whether you like the design or not that's another story. Fit and finish was perfect on 570S I drove. I'd wouldn't cover it in leather since I think exotics covered in leather look chubby, but that's just me.

    Sound-wise, the video isn't a good indication of it. It's obviously still a turbo at the end of the day just like every turbo car, but it's definitely not like this video. This video has overwhelming road and wind noise. Probably not exactly a studio reference set-up.

    You are right - I was referring to the design, not the build quality Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    bluelines:

    You are really not a McLaren fan 

    Not really wrong, but I still like the brand and the 570 is a fantastic car too, just that after the comparison the R8 just shows it is the best bargain consider he performance and the price. And the look, And the fact that RC has oneSmiley

    Smiley

    That last reason is of course enough to place any car at pole position Smiley

    In Switzerland the Audi R8 Plus and the McLaren 570S have pretty much the same price tag. It would be a tough choice between the two and I think it is not unlikely I will end up there once it comes to replacing the GT4. Because the next one might not be a Porsche, unless they break the current trend and present something more exciting than the competition Smiley This should be understood as, more revolutionary, then evolutionary. 


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    . Because the next one might not be a Porsche,

    ooooops.....and another one....Porsche is really losing a lot of us real porschephiles...


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    intouch1:

    . Because the next one might not be a Porsche,

    ooooops.....and another one....Porsche is really losing a lot of us real porschephiles...

    Evolution gets old.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    intouch1:

    . Because the next one might not be a Porsche,

    ooooops.....and another one....Porsche is really losing a lot of us real porschephiles...

    Competition is too strong... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    intouch1:

    . Because the next one might not be a Porsche,

    ooooops.....and another one....Porsche is really losing a lot of us real porschephiles...

    This thinking is popping up more often but does VAG care?  If you buy an R8 or Huracan instead of a 960 VAG still gets all the revenue, with less R&D.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Of course VAG doesn't care. If this was a problem, they'd kill models. They aren't going to just cannibalize sales knowingly for a decade. The R8 is nearly 10 years old now. They're aware of what's going on with sales and they are obviously OK with it.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:

    Of course VAG doesn't care. If this was a problem, they'd kill models. They aren't going to just cannibalize sales knowingly for a decade. The R8 is nearly 10 years old now. They're aware of what's going on with sales and they are obviously OK with it.

    Audi acquired Lamborghini in 1998 and since Porsche wasn't part of the VW Group family at that time, Audi developed their own super sportscar, as some sort of a more (socially) acceptable version of the Gallardo. At that time, the R8 made probably a lot of sense, it's success (almost 25000 cars in 10 years) says a lot about it.

    Now, things have changed. I get it, R8 development was already far and Quattro GmbH couldn't switch to the new Porsche sportscar platform, which also allows a mid engined version and Lamborghini Huracan development was almost ready, so Audi had to keep both, the R8 and the Huracan on their own (developed) platform.

    Using the Porsch platform for the "960" only, would cost too much money though, so I assume that Porsche will offer some sort of "960" once the current R8/Huracan platform is obsolete, maybe with the facelift but I rather think with the next generation. I doubt that Audi will keep the current R8 in it's current form (space frame, engine, etc.) for another 10 years, so the R8 will probably die once the "960" pops up in maybe three to four years. Just a wild guess though, nothing substantiated by accurate information.

    It is also highly possible that the R8 and the "960" will be available side by side but in my opinion, this doesn't make sense and would really hurt both models. Not so much the Huracan though, different story, since it is considered to be an "exotic", especially in Germany and/or Europe.

    Long story short: Porsche needs a "960" type of car and they need it fast. I doubt that the new 991 GT2 RS will be able to fill this void, maybe only for some enthusiasts. With the next 911 generation, things may change though and hopefully we are going to see a "960" evolve out of the ashes in a couple of years. My guts tells me: One year after the next generation 911 Turbo pops up. Again just a wild guess though.
     

    My R8 lease is four years, so I guess you guys know why now... Smiley I can only hope that Porsche makes the 960 more emotional than the 911 Turbo but in case they don't, I can still keep the R8 or go for a R8 facelift or whatever. I have my doubts however that the V10 engine is going to survive the next five years. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    To jump little bit in this thread...

    Recently I decided to get more daily usable sportscar and looked at R8 V10, 540C and 991.2 Turbo. What supriesed me the most was the difference in prices. With more or less same options (the ones which are important to me) end prices German wise are:

    R8 V10  180.000,00 €

    540C      174.000,00 €

    991.2 Turbo  190.000,00 €

    Big supriese for me. So, 991.2 Turbo is for sure the best one for all year daily usage. But, if it is second car then I am more then sure that it is not any better or more emotional then R8 V10 or 540C. One other interesting remark is that all three have 540hp.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ....on top for me depreciation is another criteria and then things might look a bit different - R8's here in CH are getting a big beating - maybe also because you can get 20% Discount in the first place - "normal" McLaren's are also not Holding their value very well despite being available in much smaller numbers - and TT's also start to loose more than in the past BUT they can be sold rather easily. I just sold a 997 TurboS Cabrio and it took me 3 days..... - the GT3 you have will have the best resale value of them all. Even if you can afford the "hit" - it's nice to know you're loosing the least on a Porsche product....


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    BjoernB:

    ....on top for me depreciation is another criteria and then things might look a bit different - R8's here in CH are getting a big beating - maybe also because you can get 20% Discount in the first place - "normal" McLaren's are also not Holding their value very well despite being available in much smaller numbers - and TT's also start to loose more than in the past BUT they can be sold rather easily. I just sold a 997 TurboS Cabrio and it took me 3 days..... - the GT3 you have will have the best resale value of them all. Even if you can afford the "hit" - it's nice to know you're loosing the least on a Porsche product....

    I think you are misinterpreting that: Do you really get 20% discount on a new car? I would be very surprised.

    Audi has a serious "problem" right now (at least in Germany but I assume they have a similar problem in other countries as well): They have a couple of dozens(!) of R8 Driving Experience R8 cars with little mileage on the market and these cars kind of give a false picture of the value of the R8 because many dealers got them "cheap" from Audi and now they are trying to get rid of them. If people don't mind driving a car which has been driven by various strangers, incl. the track, these cars are an excellent offer because they have only little mileage and offer a saving of around 15-20%.

    Same goes to dealer cars with low mileage because many dealers ordered R8 in order to get a higher quota for Q7 and other models in high demand. Typical R8 customers usually order their cars and do not buy dealer cars.

    If you try to order a new R8 here in Germany, delivery time is summer/autumn 2017(!) and discount is around 7-8% if you're lucky, maybe up to 10% if you're a good customer.

    In other countries, the R8 is even sold out if you want a new one. In the US and even the UK, the demand for the new R8 seems to be exceptionally high and the Spider has already a 12-16 months waiting period in the US.

    I do not know, maybe it is different in Switzerland. Smiley

    Porsche cars are still in high demand but the prices you see at dealers or on the internet are often not "achievable". Dealers try though... Smiley

    Can't say much about McLaren but my neighbor in his 12C Spider tries to get a 650S Spider but he told me that the McLaren dealer offers a ridiculous low amount of money if he takes a new 650S and other (private) offers were bad as well. Don't know what he asks for the car though, didn't care.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:

    To jump little bit in this thread...

    Recently I decided to get more daily usable sportscar and looked at R8 V10, 540C and 991.2 Turbo. What supriesed me the most was the difference in prices. With more or less same options (the ones which are important to me) end prices German wise are:

    R8 V10  180.000,00 €

    540C      174.000,00 €

    991.2 Turbo  190.000,00 €

    Big supriese for me. So, 991.2 Turbo is for sure the best one for all year daily usage. But, if it is second car then I am more then sure that it is not any better or more emotional then R8 V10 or 540C. One other interesting remark is that all three have 540hp.

    Careful here: Many think that the R8 V10 is basically a Plus version with less power. This is wrong!

    The R8 V10 has the same engine the Plus version has, up to the last bolt, no difference at all, even the part numbers are the same. However, the gearbox has a different gear ratio, so you can't just add the missing 70 horses with a software update. What is even worse though, even if you could manage to get around the different gearbox gear ratio: The R8 V10 has a completely different chassis and dampers setup, the car's setup is very comfortable. AMS tested it and was highly disappointed with this setup for a sports car. Even if people order the Magnetic Ride chassis, the setup is different than the Plus version. Apparently Audi wants to sell the Plus version... Smiley

    Also, there are many Audi experience R8 V10 Plus available with low mileage at German dealers, most of them cost around 170k EUR or less and Audi dealers want to move them fast. So if you don't mind buying a used car, you can make a bargain.

    The 540C is an unknown factor here...haven't seen any independent review yet.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    BjoernB:

    ....on top for me depreciation is another criteria and then things might look a bit different - R8's here in CH are getting a big beating - maybe also because you can get 20% Discount in the first place - "normal" McLaren's are also not Holding their value very well despite being available in much smaller numbers - and TT's also start to loose more than in the past BUT they can be sold rather easily. I just sold a 997 TurboS Cabrio and it took me 3 days..... - the GT3 you have will have the best resale value of them all. Even if you can afford the "hit" - it's nice to know you're loosing the least on a Porsche product....

    I think you are misinterpreting that: Do you really get 20% discount on a new car? I would be very surprised.

    Audi has a serious "problem" right now (at least in Germany but I assume they have a similar problem in other countries as well): They have a couple of dozens(!) of R8 Driving Experience R8 cars with little mileage on the market and these cars kind of give a false picture of the value of the R8 because many dealers got them "cheap" from Audi and now they are trying to get rid of them. If people don't mind driving a car which has been driven by various strangers, incl. the track, these cars are an excellent offer because they have only little mileage and offer a saving of around 15-20%.

    Same goes to dealer cars with low mileage because many dealers ordered R8 in order to get a higher quota for Q7 and other models in high demand. Typical R8 customers usually order their cars and do not buy dealer cars.

    If you try to order a new R8 here in Germany, delivery time is summer/autumn 2017(!) and discount is around 7-8% if you're lucky, maybe up to 10% if you're a good customer.

    In other countries, the R8 is even sold out if you want a new one. In the US and even the UK, the demand for the new R8 seems to be exceptionally high and the Spider has already a 12-16 months waiting period in the US.

    I do not know, maybe it is different in Switzerland. Smiley

    Porsche cars are still in high demand but the prices you see at dealers or on the internet are often not "achievable". Dealers try though... Smiley

    Can't say much about McLaren but my neighbor in his 12C Spider tries to get a 650S Spider but he told me that the McLaren dealer offers a ridiculous low amount of money if he takes a new 650S and other (private) offers were bad as well. Don't know what he asks for the car though, didn't care.

    If you have a business and a "Flottenvertrag" then you get huge amounts of discount on all Audi including R8. In that case there is no need to take a R8 experience car if you get the same discount. I am sure that if your business has a "Flottenvertrag" you as a private person will get the same discount, maybe 1 or 2% less.

    Regarding McLaren, I know the leasing conditions, they are all based on a very high value after three years and 30.000 km McLaren guarantees to the dealer. But you will never get a 300.000 € 650s spider for less then 3.000 € a month. 


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    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    http://www.autoscout24.ch/de/autos/audi--r8?allmakes=1&hpfrom=600&make=5,,&model=26,0,0&sort=price_asc&st=2&vehtyp=10&yearfrom=2015

    After Porsche I would probably take a McLaren as the overall driving experience is far better than I've experienced in Ferraris or Lambo's (with the exception in the Sound department of the Superleggera I drove) - but that is just me.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    BjoernB:

    http://www.autoscout24.ch/de/autos/audi--r8?allmakes=1&hpfrom=600&make=5,,&model=26,0,0&sort=price_asc&st=2&vehtyp=10&yearfrom=2015

    After Porsche I would probably take a McLaren as the overall driving experience is far better than I've experienced in Ferraris or Lambo's (with the exception in the Sound department of the Superleggera I drove) - but that is just me.

    Used R8, not really "cheap" if you ask me.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:

    To jump little bit in this thread...

    Recently I decided to get more daily usable sportscar and looked at R8 V10, 540C and 991.2 Turbo. What supriesed me the most was the difference in prices. With more or less same options (the ones which are important to me) end prices German wise are:

    R8 V10  180.000,00 €

    540C      174.000,00 €

    991.2 Turbo  190.000,00 €

    Big supriese for me. So, 991.2 Turbo is for sure the best one for all year daily usage. But, if it is second car then I am more then sure that it is not any better or more emotional then R8 V10 or 540C. One other interesting remark is that all three have 540hp.

    We have talked about this. The 540C is same to a 570s with 30hp less and some options are missing. You can´t go wrong with that car. 

    Many are thinking that the 570s has 625hp or even more. Because of some drag race values. I don´t believe in this. The 570s has a very smart LC software. It is crazy with this "tin" tyres what that car can do. But believe me if you take a 650s and 570s and if you drives it the same day on the same roads you will feel the difference. 


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Flottenvertrag is a different story of course but how many take a R8 for their business or how many potential R8 owners have one? Not very likely.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    BjoernB:

    http://www.autoscout24.ch/de/autos/audi--r8?allmakes=1&hpfrom=600&make=5,,&model=26,0,0&sort=price_asc&st=2&vehtyp=10&yearfrom=2015

    After Porsche I would probably take a McLaren as the overall driving experience is far better than I've experienced in Ferraris or Lambo's (with the exception in the Sound department of the Superleggera I drove) - but that is just me.

    Used R8, not really "cheap" if you ask me.

    25% for 6 month - you get 15% or more when buying so only 10% - it is OK


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
    KresoF1:

    To jump little bit in this thread...

    Recently I decided to get more daily usable sportscar and looked at R8 V10, 540C and 991.2 Turbo. What supriesed me the most was the difference in prices. With more or less same options (the ones which are important to me) end prices German wise are:

    R8 V10  180.000,00 €

    540C      174.000,00 €

    991.2 Turbo  190.000,00 €

    Big supriese for me. So, 991.2 Turbo is for sure the best one for all year daily usage. But, if it is second car then I am more then sure that it is not any better or more emotional then R8 V10 or 540C. One other interesting remark is that all three have 540hp.

    We have talked about this. The 540C is same to a 570s with 30hp less and some options are missing. You can´t go wrong with that car. 

    Many are thinking that the 570s has 625hp or even more. Because of some drag race values. I don´t believe in this. The 570s has a very smart LC software. It is crazy with this "tin" tyres what that car can do. But believe me if you take a 650s and 570s and if you drives it the same day on the same roads you will feel the difference. 

    I understand that you're a big McLaren fan now Smiley but a good LC setup can only help to start off the car, it doesn't improve acceleration times to 200 or even 300 kph. Also, to be honest: The LC setup sucks, look how even the 650S looses every drag race against a 911 Turbo S or Audi R8 Smiley over the first couple of meters. AWD still trumps any LC setup on a 2WD car. Smiley 

    Then, take shifting times and turbo lag. If the 570S is faster to 300 kph by around 4 seconds (as far as I remember) compared to Turbo S or R8, there is something definitely wrong with McLaren's power claim. It is pure math, nothing else.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


     
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