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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Porsche 991 GT3 on road...

    ...looking awesome in black! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    I love GT3s on WintertyresSmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Porsche 991 GT3 voted Top Gear Car of 2013...

    ...by Richard Hammond...

     
     
    Hammond says: "You don't get into the GT3, you put it on. It's like a set of Superman pants and a cape. It's a car that takes the genius of the 911 and turns it up to 11."
     
    In fact, Richard Hammond was so impressed that he has recently taken delivery of a 991 GT3...
     
    "An interview with Richard Hammond"
     
     
    (15 December 2013)
     
    Top Gear presenter Richard Hammond recalls his early life told through eight significant road journeys in his latest book On The Road, published by Hachette on November 7.
     
    What car do you drive?
     
    I haven’t got it yet but I will be driving a white Porsche 911 GT3. I love cars that feel distinctive and that work. It’s the engineering of them. It’s coming at the end of November. I’m so excited. And, yes, I paid full price for it. It cost a lot, I’m embarrassed to say how much.
     
    I also have a Mustang, an old E-type Jag, a Porsche GT3, Oliver, a 1963 Opel Kadett A that I drove across Botswana, a Series 1 Land Rover... Oh, I’ve got quite a lot of cars, haven’t I, seven or eight? But a lot of them are old rubbish, either broken or old. Oh, and I’ve got 26 motorbikes, dating back to 1927.
     
    What was your first car?
     
    A 1976 Toyota Corolla Liftback 1600. It had a cool accelerator pedal, just like on a Porsche. It was hinged on the floor and was kind of long and thin. I painted the flag on the roof myself. My first car was nearly a Capri; looked gorgeous in the picture in Auto Trader but my dad went to look at it for me while I was working in the petrol station and it turned out to be stolen.
     
    What was your best or worst car?
     
    I swapped a motorbike for a Mark 4 Escort. That was my only ever boring car. Before then, I’d always over-reached myself and bought things I couldn’t afford. I thought, no, this time I’d buy a sensible car, a 1.3 litre white Escort and it turned out to have been two glued together with fibreglass and it just fell apart.
     
    What is your dream car?
     
    I’d like a Bentley S1 Continental. Just beautiful. Lovely to behold and you could just glide around in it. It would probably be silver.
     
    Do you consider yourself to be a good driver?
     
    Not really. Every time I say I am, I crash. Every time my wife or daughters say ‘Be careful’ I go and do something stupid. I’ve done a lot of driving so I’m an experienced driver, but that doesn’t necessarily make me a good one.
     
    What drives you mad behind the wheel?
     
    Anybody who won’t find a speed and stick at it, anybody who’s constantly very subtly accelerating and decelerating. And you can’t say anything, especially if it’s somebody you don’t know very well. Find a speed and go at that speed.
     
    Have you ever been involved in a crash?
     
    A couple of times, yes I’ve had a few. I had one at 17 in my first car. Waiting to pull out of the junction directly outside our house in Ripon, I made a simple mistake: I trusted an indicator, flashing left on a Volvo estate travelling towards me from the right on the road I was trying to join. I assumed he was going to turn off at the side road before the junction, and pulled out at full throttle. Only he wasn’t turning left – the indicator had been left on. I ended up spreading my aged Toyota along the broad flanks of the Volvo like butter on toast. My 18th birthday was still two weeks away and my present never made it.
     
    What’s the best music to drive to?
     
    I listen to all manner of things, from blues to modern music. If I’ve got my daughters in the car with me we’ll be listening to current stuff. I love Trombone Shorty and that jazzy, hip, unusual feel, and I also listen to The Haggis Horns, Tom Waits and Ry Cooder.
     
    Who cleans your cars?
     
    Me, but not very often. I’ve got an old Mustang that I clean quite a lot.
     

    Porsche 991 GT3 -- Image Gallery

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mr Hammond was spotted taking delivery of his new GT3 last week :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC, sry but some  "facts" you state are just not true..

    1. In the Supertest, the GT3 was driven by HvS ... but the Turbo S was driven by christian gebhardt... and the tts had different tyres on (dunlop sm race vs michelin psc2) ... and as others have states, it had several problems during the Supertest + we dont know the alignement of the turbo but know that the GT3s alignement wasnt ideal (less then neg 2 degree ) ... and even the weather can make huge differences on a cars performance...

    and dont forget, Sportauto and AMS always time with a passenger onboard, so thats a bigger penalty for the lighter GT3...

    And Sportauto even posted a statement, that they will retest the GT3 and see if it will really be slower than the tts around hockenheim... So we can,assume that it underperformed quite badly ... 

    2. and so far in every true comparison test the turbo s was slower  around the track (autozeitung + balocca)...  so we shouldnt expect  it to be quicker than a gt3 around the track... If porsche states 1 sec difference on the Nordschleife, that will be true and hence the turbo s will be slower on more technical courses...

    And I think the GT3 will be slower in a straight line, but not as much as you think... could as well be that in your "tests" u gave yourself without recognising always a headstart or that the others are just worse in such "tests" ...  And that could easily lead to small differences becoming a big one... But i gotta say... the gt3 will never will be quicker than the tts in a straight line...

    And Chris harris never said he liked the turbo S more than the GT3, thats just rubbish!!!

    So if u use facts, please state them correctly...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    GT3 in Anthracite Brown!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    That is seriously ugly looking surprise Wrong color and those rediculous winter wheels with the wrong offset make the GT3 from one of the best looking 991s into the worst looking 991! mail

    I wonder what is wrong with putting winter tyres on the original wheels. These Turbo S wheels look awesome on the TTS, but mainly because of the wrong offset, they look horrible on the GT3.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
    2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SuzyF:

    I wonder what is wrong with putting winter tyres on the original wheels. 

    1.  Widest summer tyres leave no room for snow chains.

    2.  Winter tyres are generally not available in the widest low profile sizes (partly due to point 1), so narrow higher aspect-ratio dimensions are substituted for them.

    3.  Narrower winter tyres are generally considered to dig down better into snow and slush, giving a longer and narrower tread contact "footprint" rather than a shorter and wider one, which is supposed to help traction and directional stability when driving or braking in the relevant road conditions. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    fritz:
    SuzyF:

    I wonder what is wrong with putting winter tyres on the original wheels. 

    1.  Widest summer tyres leave no room for snow chains.

    2.  Winter tyres are generally not available in the widest low profile sizes (partly due to point 1), so narrow higher aspect-ratio dimensions are substituted for them.

    3.  Narrower winter tyres are generally considered to dig down better into snow and slush, giving a longer and narrower tread contact "footprint" rather than a shorter and wider one, which is supposed to help traction and directional stability when driving or braking in the relevant road conditions. 

    Okay thanks. So I guess the 295/30 M+S tyre, that you can get for the 991 Carrera, doesn't fit on the original GT3 wheels?  Smiley Front tyres shouldn't be a problem.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
    2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SuzyF:

    That is seriously ugly looking surprise Wrong color and those rediculous winter wheels with the wrong offset make the GT3 from one of the best looking 991s into the worst looking 991! mail

    +1 

    Not liking the color at all on a GT3 Smiley


    --

    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    A very usual color from the norm - I like it!


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive MSport & 2012 x5 - TurboS Cab on Order Mar14. Range Rover V8 on order June14


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    me too!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SuzyF:

    That is seriously ugly looking surprise Wrong color and those rediculous winter wheels with the wrong offset make the GT3 from one of the best looking 991s into the worst looking 991! mail

    I wonder what is wrong with putting winter tyres on the original wheels. These Turbo S wheels look awesome on the TTS, but mainly because of the wrong offset, they look horrible on the GT3.

    Competition 911s in winter looks like below, so the tires are okay for the GT3:

    http://www.type911.org/jeux/pics/photo_928.jpg

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    easy_rider911:

    It really looks like people have lost the plot here. Why are grown men debating the performance stats to this degree?

    For me, it's all about excitement and the experience of driving. In that respect, of the current 991 range, I prefer the 991 GT3 whether it's a few tenths of a second faster or slower.

    So I guess you drove both, the GT3 and the Turbo S? Smiley

    Prejudice is human, so is error. Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mullh:

    RC, sry but some  "facts" you state are just not true..

    1. In the Supertest, the GT3 was driven by HvS ... but the Turbo S was driven by christian gebhardt... and the tts had different tyres on (dunlop sm race vs michelin psc2) ... and as others have states, it had several problems during the Supertest + we dont know the alignement of the turbo but know that the GT3s alignement wasnt ideal (less then neg 2 degree ) ... and even the weather can make huge differences on a cars performance...

    Horst von Saurma is usually a tiny bit faster than Christian Gebhardt. Of course the Turbo S has different tires, this is why I compared it with the SAME tires to the GT3 and trust me, the Michelin Cup 2 is slightly faster than the Dunlop, which is a UHP tire. The car didn't have any problems during the Supertest, only when AMS tried to execute the dyno testing. Porsche later on confirmed that the car was technically sound, the software update had only been executed to reset the software. This is also one of the reasons cars usually perform worse in AMS/Sport Auto reviews because both car magazine not only dyno the cars but also check chassis setups/settings, just in case manufacturers try to cheat. Also AMS/Sport Auto uses calibrated and certified equipment, a full fuel tank and a passenger, while some other car magazine couldn't care less about all of that. They just hook the cars up with some equipment, test it and they're done. Smiley

    and dont forget, Sportauto and AMS always time with a passenger onboard, so thats a bigger penalty for the lighter GT3...

    Same with the Turbo S, I don't get your point. If they would test the cars with one passenger only, the Turbo S would have the same advantage.

    And Sportauto even posted a statement, that they will retest the GT3 and see if it will really be slower than the tts around hockenheim... So we can,assume that it underperformed quite badly ... 

    It didn't underperform. Is it really that difficult to compare the results of the 991 GT3 with the former 997 GT3, GT3 RS and GT3 RS 4.0? Apparently so. The GT3 performs very well but some people apparently expect miracles before and after Christmas. Smiley

    2. and so far in every true comparison test the turbo s was slower  around the track (autozeitung + balocca)...  so we shouldnt expect  it to be quicker than a gt3 around the track... If porsche states 1 sec difference on the Nordschleife, that will be true and hence the turbo s will be slower on more technical courses...

    In these tests, the Turbo S was using standard tires (PZero). Oh boy...is it so difficult to understand the difference between UHP (Dunlops) and street tires (PZero)?

    And I think the GT3 will be slower in a straight line, but not as much as you think... could as well be that in your "tests" u gave yourself without recognising always a headstart or that the others are just worse in such "tests" ...  And that could easily lead to small differences becoming a big one... But i gotta say... the gt3 will never will be quicker than the tts in a straight line...

    You cannot imagine how big the difference was. Just wait for the first real life encounters and we talk again. Not even sure why I am discussing straight line performance of the GT3 vs. the Turbo S though. Ridiculous.

    And Chris harris never said he liked the turbo S more than the GT3, thats just rubbish!!!

    Listen to his GT3 review and then the Turbo S review. This is not rubbish. He wasn't a fan of the GT3 because of the PDK but for the first time he liked a 911 Turbo because it "has a soul".

    So if u use facts, please state them correctly...

    Stupid question: When have you driven a GT3 or Turbo S lately? Exactly my point. Cheers. Smiley

    I said it before: The GT3 is a wonderful car but Porsche has to keep a certain performance hierarchy. If you want something faster (track and straight line), go for the GT3 RS. If you want something even faster, go for the GT2 RS (or maybe even GT2 if Porsche is willing to put it on the market). Just stop arguing about something based on what you read in a stupid car magazine. Otherwise you may be heavily disappointed if you ever get the car.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The 'character' of the 991 GT3 is like that of the 997.2 GT3 and the 'character' of the 991 TT and 991 TTS are fundamentally similar to the 997.2 TT and 997.2 TTS respectively. I know which character of 911 appeals to me.

    if you wish to argue with others over performance stats, that's your choice. For me that discussion is irrelevant. I prefer cars that excite me and, if I were buying right now, of the current 991 range, that car is the GT3. For me, it isn't about how quick I am against a stopwatch. It is about the noise, the sensation I get while driving.

    RC, as usual, you are discussing this topic like there is only one correct answer, yours. When it comes to personal choice, there is no correct answer. We all want different things. The good news is that Porsche caters for all of us.

     


    --


    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    easy_rider911:

    The 'character' of the 991 GT3 is like that of the 997.2 GT3 and the 'character' of the 991 TT and 991 TTS are fundamentally similar to the 997.2 TT and 997.2 TTS respectively. I know which character of 911 appeals to me.

    No, it isn't. This is what Chris Harris was surprised about too.

    if you wish to argue with others over performance stats, that's your choice. For me that discussion is irrelevant. I prefer cars that excite me and, if I were buying right now, of the current 991 range, that car is the GT3. For me, it isn't about how quick I am against a stopwatch. It is about the noise, the sensation I get while driving.

    Have you driven both, the GT3 and Turbo S?

    RC, as usual, you are discussing this topic like there is only one correct answer, yours. When it comes to personal choice, there is no correct answer. We all want different things. The good news is that Porsche caters for all of us.

    Have you ever argued with one of your law professors? Smiley Why not? My point. I wish I could say more but sometimes you need to trust me and not feel provoked by a provocation when there is none. As a lawyer, you should actually know better.

    I haven't said that the GT3 isn't different but 99% of you guys here are arguing about cars you haven't even driven. Does this sound OK to you? 

    Oh, I drove a Bugatti Veyron on my son's Playstation lately. Does this qualify me to argue about it's driving and performance capabilities?! 

    To sum up my claims (before there is even more misunderstanding):

    1. Straight line, the Turbo S is substantially faster than the GT3, especially in the 200+ kph speed range.

    2. On the track, the GT3 is faster than the Turbo S with street tires but slower than the Turbo S with UHP tires/semi slicks. This is valid for the first rounds, of course the weight of the Turbo S will sooner or later be a disadvantage, the tire performance will degrade much faster. So when doing let's say 100 rounds, the GT3 would be faster with the same tires.

    3. For the same skilled driver, the Turbo S is easier to drive at the limit than the GT3 and this is why even on street tires, the driver will always be faster in the Turbo S. I'm not talking Walter Röhrl or Marc Lieb here, I'm talking your average, experienced, long time Porsche owner with minor track experience.

    4. From a fun point of view, I would recommend the GT3 for speed limited regions and the Turbo S for regions without a major speed limit or where speed limits aren't that important. For the track, there is no substitute for the GT3 (or RS for that matter later on), I would not really seriously track race a Turbo S.

    5. This whole discussion is ridiculous, simply because most Turbo S customers won't take their car to the track or even start mounting UHP tires. 

    6. The GT3 sounds better than the Turbo S and PDK shifts a tiny bit more aggressive but overall, the drive feel is quite similar at certain speeds. So while some drivers will enjoy the GT3 for the very sexy sound above 7000 rpm and the overall drive feel, the Turbo S driver will enjoy the car for the amazing boost and infinite traction. To each his own I guess but to say that the Turbo S is more boring or the GT3 is more exciting really depends on what you expect from a sports car. We could start the whole "raw sportscar" experience discussion again but then I'd have to tell you, that even the GT3 isn't that "raw sportscar" everyone expects and I think we discussed this already.

    So while I get the arguments, please do me (and yourself) a favor: Drive both cars in comparison, you maybe have the surprise of your life. They aren't much different in driving fun but each of them performs that fun in a different way. This is why I would love to own both.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    easy_rider911:

    The 'character' of the 991 GT3 is like that of the 997.2 GT3 and the 'character' of the 991 TT and 991 TTS are fundamentally similar to the 997.2 TT and 997.2 TTS respectively. I know which character of 911 appeals to me.

    No, it isn't. This is what Chris Harris was surprised about too.

    if you wish to argue with others over performance stats, that's your choice. For me that discussion is irrelevant. I prefer cars that excite me and, if I were buying right now, of the current 991 range, that car is the GT3. For me, it isn't about how quick I am against a stopwatch. It is about the noise, the sensation I get while driving.

    Have you driven both, the GT3 and Turbo S?

    RC, as usual, you are discussing this topic like there is only one correct answer, yours. When it comes to personal choice, there is no correct answer. We all want different things. The good news is that Porsche caters for all of us.

    Have you ever argued with one of your law professors? Smiley Why not? My point. I wish I could say more but sometimes you need to trust me and not feel provoked by a provocation when there is none. As a lawyer, you should actually know better.

    I haven't said that the GT3 isn't different but 99% of you guys here are arguing about cars you haven't even driven. Does this sound OK to you? 

    Oh, I drove a Bugatti Veyron on my son's Playstation lately. Does this qualify me to argue about it's driving and performance capabilities?! 

    Typical RC reply,  "I know it all" ......RC have you driven the GT3 on the limit, I have driven both on a track and I could surely tell you that the GT3 is more involving and faster than your TTS. It's as if you can't bear the fact that the GT3 is the better car, you took the same stance when I posted the link of the F12 against the TTS whereby the TTS was annihilated Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    You're missing the point about the 'character' of the cars. Porsche won't alienate its customer base by fundamentally changing each model's character.

    i haven't said anything about performance capabilities.

    Regarding law professors, 20 years ago when I was at university, I regularly argued my point with them. That was actually encouraged. Students were not expected to blindly accept what they were told but instead to question things and form their own view. But what relevance does that have to a discussion about cars?

    You expect people simply to accept what you think? But I am expressing my choice based on factors like exhaust and engine sound, not performance statistics.


    --


    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    easy_rider911:

    You're missing the point about the 'character' of the cars. Porsche won't alienate its customer base by fundamentally changing each model's character.

    They have. It was necessary. This is why they added PDK to the GT3 and AWS/sound symposer to the Turbo S.

    i haven't said anything about performance capabilities.

    Isn't that one of the major points of owning a sports car?

    Regarding law professors, 20 years ago when I was at university, I regularly argued my point with them. That was actually encouraged. Students were not expected to blindly accept what they were told but instead to question things and form their own view. But what relevance does that have to a discussion about cars?

    You know what I mean. Smiley

    You expect people simply to accept what you think? But I am expressing my choice based on factors like exhaust and engine sound, not performance statistics.

    Then you should drive something else than a Porsche. Porsche is all about performance. Get a Maserati, there is no better value in exhaust and engine sound. Oh wait...maybe Aston Martin too. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Italo:
     

    Typical RC reply,  "I know it all" ......RC have you driven the GT3 on the limit, I have driven both on a track and I could surely tell you that the GT3 is more involving and faster than your TTS. It's as if you can't bear the fact that the GT3 is the better car, you took the same stance when I posted the link of the F12 against the TTS whereby the TTS was annihilated Smiley

    Aren't you the guy who was and still is permanently bashing the 991 Turbo S for a couple of months now in the Turbo forum? Unless you remove your Avatar, I can't really take you seriously. Smiley

    Speaking of "I know it all...". I wish. It would really help. Smiley I know however much more than the average user here and I am grateful for that. Not so grateful about the "keep your mouth shut" part but I think I do a pretty good job to make hints and some others do the same job here. If you think I'm just your average car forum bloke who loves to brag about his own (and only) fantastic car Smiley, you don't know me at all. Cheers. 

    As to the F12 "annihilation": Have you actually read my posts regarding the F12? Apparently not. I also bet with you that the average joe would always be faster in a Turbo S than in a F12. The F12 is a wonderful car but if you want to get even close to the limit, it requires a very skilled driver. You should get a 458 Speciale, this thing actually is easy to drive at the limit, Ferrari did a wonderful job here. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    as a owner of a turbo charged 911 and a 997.2GT3RS I can clearly say that the RS / naturally aspirated engine is way more fun and exploitable than the GT2 - if you want low end torque and neck stretching speed-building - buy a turbo - if you want laser sharp handling and a big grin wringing the engines to the max rev - buy a GT3/RS - simple indecision


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    easy_rider911:

    The 'character' of the 991 GT3 is like that of the 997.2 GT3 and the 'character' of the 991 TT and 991 TTS are fundamentally similar to the 997.2 TT and 997.2 TTS respectively. I know which character of 911 appeals to me.

    No, it isn't. This is what Chris Harris was surprised about too.

    if you wish to argue with others over performance stats, that's your choice. For me that discussion is irrelevant. I prefer cars that excite me and, if I were buying right now, of the current 991 range, that car is the GT3. For me, it isn't about how quick I am against a stopwatch. It is about the noise, the sensation I get while driving.

    Have you driven both, the GT3 and Turbo S?

    RC, as usual, you are discussing this topic like there is only one correct answer, yours. When it comes to personal choice, there is no correct answer. We all want different things. The good news is that Porsche caters for all of us.

    Have you ever argued with one of your law professors? Smiley Why not? My point. I wish I could say more but sometimes you need to trust me and not feel provoked by a provocation when there is none. As a lawyer, you should actually know better.

    I haven't said that the GT3 isn't different but 99% of you guys here are arguing about cars you haven't even driven. Does this sound OK to you? 

    Oh, I drove a Bugatti Veyron on my son's Playstation lately. Does this qualify me to argue about it's driving and performance capabilities?! 

    To sum up my claims (before there is even more misunderstanding):

    1. Straight line, the Turbo S is substantially faster than the GT3, especially in the 200+ kph speed range.

    2. On the track, the GT3 is faster than the Turbo S with street tires but slower than the Turbo S with UHP tires/semi slicks. This is valid for the first rounds, of course the weight of the Turbo S will sooner or later be a disadvantage, the tire performance will degrade much faster. So when doing let's say 100 rounds, the GT3 would be faster with the same tires.

    3. For the same skilled driver, the Turbo S is easier to drive at the limit than the GT3 and this is why even on street tires, the driver will always be faster in the Turbo S. I'm not talking Walter Röhrl or Marc Lieb here, I'm talking your average, experienced, long time Porsche owner with minor track experience.

    4. From a fun point of view, I would recommend the GT3 for speed limited regions and the Turbo S for regions without a major speed limit or where speed limits aren't that important. For the track, there is no substitute for the GT3 (or RS for that matter later on), I would not really seriously track race a Turbo S.

    5. This whole discussion is ridiculous, simply because most Turbo S customers won't take their car to the track or even start mounting UHP tires. 

    6. The GT3 sounds better than the Turbo S and PDK shifts a tiny bit more aggressive but overall, the drive feel is quite similar at certain speeds. So while some drivers will enjoy the GT3 for the very sexy sound above 7000 rpm and the overall drive feel, the Turbo S driver will enjoy the car for the amazing boost and infinite traction. To each his own I guess but to say that the Turbo S is more boring or the GT3 is more exciting really depends on what you expect from a sports car. We could start the whole "raw sportscar" experience discussion again but then I'd have to tell you, that even the GT3 isn't that "raw sportscar" everyone expects and I think we discussed this already.

    So while I get the arguments, please do me (and yourself) a favor: Drive both cars in comparison, you maybe have the surprise of your life. They aren't much different in driving fun but each of them performs that fun in a different way. This is why I would love to own both.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    RC, this is a surprisingly open and correct assessment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BjoernB:

    as a owner of a turbo charged 911 and a 997.2GT3RS I can clearly say that the RS / naturally aspirated engine is way more fun and exploitable than the GT2 - if you want low end torque and neck stretching speed-building - buy a turbo - if you want laser sharp handling and a big grin wringing the engines to the max rev - buy a GT3/RS - simple indecision

    Not that simple anymore but I agree to some point. Maybe Porsche made a mistake (not from my point of view though): They made the GT3 more accessible to the ordinary crowd and at the same time, they added a bit of rawness (even if artificially created through AWS, new PTM/AWD and Sound Symposer) to the Turbo S. While different in character, both cars are now a lot of fun (in the past, the Turbo/S was just fast but not really an emotional car). Chris Harris pointed this out with his "this car has a soul now" comment but I guess whoever has strong feelings for the GT3 has a tough time to believe that any other Porsche product could be actually the same fun. Smiley Maybe I should compare it with Cayman owners who think that the Cayman Swould actually be the better GT3 if it had more power. Oh well... Smiley

    Porsche did a wonderful job here but I'm afraid they did it too well. However, they had to: GT3/RS sales didn't go up because the car was limited to a certain customer base and same goes to the Turbo/S customer base who was usually more in their 50s/60s because the car was a fast GT but not really creating any major emotions. So they actually improved both products and now they are getting a beating for it. Smiley Interesting.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Italo:
     

    Typical RC reply,  "I know it all" ......RC have you driven the GT3 on the limit, I have driven both on a track and I could surely tell you that the GT3 is more involving and faster than your TTS. It's as if you can't bear the fact that the GT3 is the better car, you took the same stance when I posted the link of the F12 against the TTS whereby the TTS was annihilated Smiley

    Aren't you the guy who was and still is permanently bashing the 991 Turbo S for a couple of months now in the Turbo forum? Unless you remove your Avatar, I can't really take you seriously. Smiley

    Speaking of "I know it all...". I wish. It would really help. Smiley I know however much more than the average user here and I am grateful for that. Not so grateful about the "keep your mouth shut" part but I think I do a pretty good job to make hints and some others do the same job here. If you think I'm just your average car forum bloke who loves to brag about his own (and only) fantastic car Smiley, you don't know me at all. Cheers. 

    As to the F12 "annihilation": Have you actually read my posts regarding the F12? Apparently not. I also bet with you that the average joe would always be faster in a Turbo S than in a F12. The F12 is a wonderful car but if you want to get even close to the limit, it requires a very skilled driver. You should get a 458 Speciale, this thing actually is easy to drive at the limit, Ferrari did a wonderful job here. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    I have always been a Porsche guy, the only complaint I have with the brand is their pricing...charging too much for too less. On the avatar issue, the DBS is a good car, Aston showed the world they could still mingle with the best when they created the One-77 which I guess is more powerful than your Tit-Tit-S. Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    My boss owns a DBS and having driven it extensively - I like it's outside looks and for sure people admire it much more than any 911 - BUT - inside the fumbly ceap buttons and horrible Navi - it's so out-dated.... I would call it a nice Autobahn cruiser but certainly no match in any performance field to a TT. However, girls like it - which is a reason of why he bought his angry -

    Probably the GT3 is the new S of all 911's - I know people eying a GT3 that would have never bought one before. Porsche I guess is trying to push sales dramatically by applying more into ONE car - rather than having a clear"er" seperation


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The DBS is a good car...compared to? A Mercedes SL? A BMW M6? yes

    Yes, Porsche has become too expensive, I share the same opinion (in the UK, the prices are better than in Germany though). However, ironically, I think the new GT3 is the best offer from them and at the current price tag, quite a deal.

    My favorite Aston Martin is the Vantage V12 S. Too expensive though for the performance it delivers.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    easy_rider911:

    You're missing the point about the 'character' of the cars. Porsche won't alienate its customer base by fundamentally changing each model's character.

    i haven't said anything about performance capabilities.

    Regarding law professors, 20 years ago when I was at university, I regularly argued my point with them. That was actually encouraged. Students were not expected to blindly accept what they were told but instead to question things and form their own view. But what relevance does that have to a discussion about cars?

    You expect people simply to accept what you think? But I am expressing my choice based on factors like exhaust and engine sound, not performance statistics.

     

    He's also apparently keen to bend the laws of physics...

    (Refusing to say how two cars with similar power to weight ratios, but one with shorter gear ratios and lower drag is substantially slower than the another (for certain increments)....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    At least I don't try to bend reality. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    At least I don't try to bend reality. 

    Evidence suggests otherwise - still waiting for your explanation about your new laws of physics....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    sidicks:
    RC:

    At least I don't try to bend reality. 

    Evidence suggests otherwise - still waiting for your explanation about your new laws of physics....

    If this is what you call evidence, then let's just hope you're not a physicist. Smiley Unless your first name is Sheldon of course. Smiley Let me guess: You ordered a GT3? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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