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    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Tesla already beat all other cars in the luxury sedan segment. Germany is a bit unique with the autobahn...

    I doubt that Tesla sells much better in other EU countries than in Germany. Only exception seems to be Scandinavia, for whatever reasons. Especially Norway (which isn't even in the EU). Basically 90% of the Tesla S I see in Europe while traveling have Norwegian license plates. Smiley Smiley

    I loved the Tesla S I test-drove because of the tech and the nice display and everything. The novelty factor really plays a huge role. As a gadget lover, this is really a fun car. I would get one as my third or fourth car maybe.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    A hint would be that in Oslo your are allowed to use the buss lanes if you drive a EV I.e. passing the standing traffic on your way to work.....Smiley


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    how can I rename this thread ? indecision


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    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    intouch1:

    how can I rename this thread ? indecision

    Smiley


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    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Gnil:
    SciFrog:

    Different countries, different regions... The X is considered one of the coolest car in the USA, like it or not, even with a controversial design. Just look at the crowds at the Tesla stores...

    Same here , and same with the Model S .

    Every wife want s one and any husband who's got one is considered '' cool'' . Even the kids think like that .

    It is a a fashion thing , for sure . Just like the iPhone was . 

    A model X or a model S is considered way above any Cayenne or X5 for the population, as it represents novelty, innovation , exclusivity . The other SUV are like dinosaurs compared to it . 

    In Germany, ELVs are definitely not cool with rich "housewives"...not yet. I'd rather say Cayenne, Ranger Rover, etc.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    RC:
    Gnil:
    SciFrog:

    Different countries, different regions... The X is considered one of the coolest car in the USA, like it or not, even with a controversial design. Just look at the crowds at the Tesla stores...

    Same here , and same with the Model S .

    Every wife want s one and any husband who's got one is considered '' cool'' . Even the kids think like that .

    It is a a fashion thing , for sure . Just like the iPhone was . 

    A model X or a model S is considered way above any Cayenne or X5 for the population, as it represents novelty, innovation , exclusivity . The other SUV are like dinosaurs compared to it . 

    In Germany, ELVs are definitely not cool with rich "housewives"...not yet. I'd rather say Cayenne, Ranger Rover, etc.

    Who would like to have a car that rich "housewives" think is cool? Smiley

    Tesla is cool among entrepreneurs and people who prefer being a bit more low key and not need to show of their "new money". That appeals to me and I hope that the rich housewives continue to run around in their Cayennes and RR and not ruin the cool factor of Tesla Smiley


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    lukestern:
     

    Tesla is cool among entrepreneurs and people who prefer being a bit more low key and not need to show of their "new money". That appeals to me and I hope that the rich housewives continue to run around in their Cayennes and RR and not ruin the cool factor of Tesla Smiley

    This is what we have the 911 for in Germany. Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Tesla already beat all other cars in the luxury sedan segment. Germany is a bit unique with the autobahn...

    I doubt that Tesla sells much better in other EU countries than in Germany. Only exception seems to be Scandinavia, for whatever reasons. Especially Norway (which isn't even in the EU). Basically 90% of the Tesla S I see in Europe while traveling have Norwegian license plates. Smiley Smiley.

     

     

    Norway has a huge tax break system for EVs and normal cars are taxed like hell, so this explains it.

     


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Morning commute: saw 6 Teslas, zero S class, A8 or BMW 7 series... They are killing it it.


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    I was not intending to pull this thread towards an EV thread. 

    Nevertheless - Just my experience  the last 3 days where I had my Hybrid on a business trip to Munich, Frankfurt and Stuttgart proved that the few EV stations we are having in our cities are overcrowded. I did see Tesla owners lining up and I did see frustrated EV owners not being able charging up their cars. The whole experience here in Germany is a mess. i.e. The EV apps are showing stations available which matter in fact are in use, some of the EV stations are made for compact EV cars, no chance for a Tesla or my big Volvo. And - there is a hick up with too many different plugs. The Typ2 plug seems to be standard but 35% of all chargers are using different plugs. And - owning a Tesla you might even face the problem that chargers are having a low output and delaying the charge time.

    I never said anything against the Tesla I just say that it is way to early to seriously and doubtless drive an fully electrical vehicle today. The drive must be planned and managed. You for sure can work out a way to use the range but you must plan your trip as you must be patient to wait until another drive might empty the charger sport, etc. For a car used on business trip it doesn't work. In business you must have a reliable time-management, and a volatile charging experience just doesn't allow that. 


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Lars997:

    I was not intending to pull this thread towards an EV thread. 

    Nevertheless - Just my experience  the last 3 days where I had my Hybrid on a business trip to Munich, Frankfurt and Stuttgart proved that the few EV stations we are having in our cities are overcrowded. I did see Tesla owners lining up and I did see frustrated EV owners not being able charging up their cars. The whole experience here in Germany is a mess. i.e. The EV apps are showing stations available which matter in fact are in use, some of the EV stations are made for compact EV cars, no chance for a Tesla or my big Volvo. And - there is a hick up with too many different plugs. The Typ2 plug seems to be standard but 35% of all chargers are using different plugs. And - owning a Tesla you might even face the problem that chargers are having a low output and delaying the charge time.

    I never said anything against the Tesla I just say that it is way to early to seriously and doubtless drive an fully electrical vehicle today. The drive must be planned and managed. You for sure can work out a way to use the range but you must plan your trip as you must be patient to wait until another drive might empty the charger sport, etc. For a car used on business trip it doesn't work. In business you must have a reliable time-management, and a volatile charging experience just doesn't allow that. 

    Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Lars997:

    I was not intending to pull this thread towards an EV thread. 

    Nevertheless - Just my experience  the last 3 days where I had my Hybrid on a business trip to Munich, Frankfurt and Stuttgart proved that the few EV stations we are having in our cities are overcrowded. I did see Tesla owners lining up and I did see frustrated EV owners not being able charging up their cars. The whole experience here in Germany is a mess. i.e. The EV apps are showing stations available which matter in fact are in use, some of the EV stations are made for compact EV cars, no chance for a Tesla or my big Volvo. And - there is a hick up with too many different plugs. The Typ2 plug seems to be standard but 35% of all chargers are using different plugs. And - owning a Tesla you might even face the problem that chargers are having a low output and delaying the charge time.

    I never said anything against the Tesla I just say that it is way to early to seriously and doubtless drive an fully electrical vehicle today. The drive must be planned and managed. You for sure can work out a way to use the range but you must plan your trip as you must be patient to wait until another drive might empty the charger sport, etc. For a car used on business trip it doesn't work. In business you must have a reliable time-management, and a volatile charging experience just doesn't allow that. 

    Haha, yes, this thread has went way out of bounds. We should have a separate thread instead. But anyway, we've already destroyed this thread so why not continue Smiley

    I've said it all the time... Tesla is the only alternative that works because of the Supercharger infrastructure that both is very quick for charging, built out with good network coverage and with a few rare exceptions no waiting times for charging either and no cumbersome payment or cables. Stop the car, plug it in and do your thing. Extremely convenient.

    @Lars - I think your experience is a bit skewed since you're running around in your Volvo hybrid and Volvo does not have a simple dedicated charging infrastructure setup for you and you have to rely on a plethora of public options from energy companies, that all have their own way of managing payments to mention one thing that can become a nightmare for the customer. The Volvo hybrid has an onboard charger capable of 3,5kWh which mean that the battery (9kWh) will charge up in 2,5-3 hours. And for this effort you will get about 25-30km of range! Honestly, I would never bother the hazel to charge that thing up in public. Fiddling with apps, cables, payments, reading instructions on charging outlets, etc. It clearly is not a good alternative, I fully agree with that and if I had your Volvo I would never charge it in public charging outlets. I would probably plug it in overnight at home and when the battery is out the next day I would continue on fuel.

    Compare the Volvo charging rates of 3,5kWh with Tesla Supercharger that is at a rate of 150kWh (Actual charging speed for a car is about 115kWh). So about 33 time faster charging than the Volvo and many other of todays EVs. Then also take into account that the infrastructure is almost 100% fault free. Superchargers are never down and maintenance free more or less. 

    This is another reason why I see very hard times for other manufacturers except Tesla. Today there is no good charging infrastructure and I doubt that e.g. the German car manufacturer will be able to build up something in 3 years that is on par with Tesla superchargers. It will require a lot of effort and they for sure don't have any experience in this domain. Also it will take a lot of time since many companies will cooperate around building the infrastructure and creating those agreements will take TIME. Being big companies is not a good thing when big structural changes are needed and a transformation like this will and take a lot of effort. And it is not even sure that they will succeed with it and the only option is to continue developing the existing platform and give away sales to other more innovative companies.

    Problem with e.g. Mission-E timeframe is that the 800v chargers that Porsche says will fill up the car in 15 minutes. I can bet that those chargers will not be everywhere because they are both very expensive and quite complicated to install. They will be on few locations and most of the time a Mission-E owner will have to stop and charge the car up on much slower chargers. That will become a big issue for the owning experience of a Mission-E, at least when the car become available in 2020. This is probably also why Porsche plan rather low volumes initially.

    If Tesla continue the expansion with charging infrastructure and launch of Model 3., Model Y, etc,  I think they will grow to be a much bigger company and take sales from all the Germans (they already do with Model S/X). Then they will offer both high end models with good performance and range and also a entry level model with a competitive price point and also having access to the already well built out infrastructure for charging. Tesla will of course build out the charging infrastructure much more aggressive and they for sure already have the knowledge and know-how. And it is also proven that they have a interesting case since they hire a lot of skilled people from other car manufacturers to up the game in domains where they're currently behind (interior design to take one example).


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    I do not see a major success of ELVs in Germany...yet. Only if the laws change and fuel gets more expensive. 

    The car industry in Germany is very connected to the government...and the unions. As long as car manufacturers don't make the switch to ELVs and the government offers incentives for the people, it won't happen anytime soon over here.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    @Luke - I understand your reasoning and I do see the advantage of the Tesla Super-Charger infrastructure. 

    But - the truth is different. Keep in mind, there is not even one single super charger in any main city (Munich, Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne, Berlin, Hamburg, Düsseldorf, etc. ). Tesla placed them along Autobahns and far away of the center of cities. In other words - the super fast charging you only have outside on long distance trips. If you want to use the chance to fill up that Tesla in the city while you are at your appointment, you are stuck with the same crappy infrastructure as I use with my Volvo.

    Most public places are charging with 7.2 KW, only a few going up to 11KW. Many of the German private homes are not capable to install a charger faster than 11KW (16A). The 22KW is the maximum you can do at your private home today and they require arm thick wires and modern infrastructure of your home connection. That 145KW Tesla power stations you will never find in private homes. Ergo - you need 10-15 hours to charge the car in a city and not only 45 minutes. 

    I did meet many Tesla owners in the last weeks. I had a lot of chats. My conclusion - a Tesla works great if you drive within the city and connect your car at home over night. If you go on long distance you need to plan a lot of time extra for your trip. Already today - lots of super chargers are well frequented and people are queening up to get some charge. And - every new Tesla sold will decrease the chance to find an available super charger slot. 

    I'm happy that I drive that Volvo instead of the Mode X. My car produces 424 HP if I have a charged battery or not. After 600km I need to go to fill up some petrol, but at least I'm independent. And during the days where I don't go long distance, I can handle it purely electrical. And mostly I charge my battery before I enter the city (you can charge while driving) - so in the city I can avoid emission completely. 

    It also must be said - driving an electric vehicle is more expensive than driving a combustion or a diesel. The car is more expensive, the savings when driving purely electrical are minimal. So in total - it is pure ideology and a bit of a toy for daddy. 

     


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Lars997:

    So in total - it is pure ideology and a bit of a toy for daddy. 

    Very well said...especially since electricity prices are 2-3x higher in Germany than in the US for example. 

    A hybrid makes, currently, much more sense. In 20 years maybe not but now and over the next 10 years? Definitely. Unless there is a major breakthrough in charging and/or battery technology. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Speaking of  "toy for daddy"...  Isn't supercars or any sportcar exactly that? angryindecision


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    lukestern:

    Speaking of  "toy for daddy"...  Isn't supercars or any sportcar exactly that? angryindecision

    Indeed. Did we ever claim anything else. Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Lars997:

    But - the truth is different. Keep in mind, there is not even one single super charger in any main city (Munich, Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne, Berlin, Hamburg, Düsseldorf, etc. ). Tesla placed them along Autobahns and far away of the center of cities. In other words - the super fast charging you only have outside on long distance trips. If you want to use the chance to fill up that Tesla in the city while you are at your appointment, you are stuck with the same crappy infrastructure as I use with my Volvo.

    Most public places are charging with 7.2 KW, only a few going up to 11KW. Many of the German private homes are not capable to install a charger faster than 11KW (16A). The 22KW is the maximum you can do at your private home today and they require arm thick wires and modern infrastructure of your home connection. That 145KW Tesla power stations you will never find in private homes. Ergo - you need 10-15 hours to charge the car in a city and not only 45 minutes. 

    You will not need superchargers in the city center. You completely missed the point there and their purpose. Superchargers are there for those days when you commute longer. You don't see any petrol stations in the city center parking garage in Frankfurt, do you? Smiley. When you have an appointment in the city you park up just like everybody else and don't need to bother about charging... And if you do charge up anyway at your destination, then you will fill upp with 50-100km/hour on slow public chargers. Let's say that you did commute 100km from outside Frankfurt to your business meeting. When you left home you were on full charge. When you arrive to the parking garage you charge up those driven 100km in one hour, and if you don't bother to charge, you will comfortable drive back the 100km without charging... and if you need to drive longer, there is a Supercharger where you solve that problem...

    11kw at home is more than good enough. If you come home late in the evening with almost empty battery it will be on 100% charge the morning after (or about 5-6 hours). The car is filled up while you're sleeping. You NEVER need a quick charging at home.

    Supercharging is for those days when you drive 300km+ and then they come in handy along the Autobahn. All other days you charge only at home overnight. Or if you stay at a hotel there is nowadays always a few 11kw chargers available on decent hotels in their garage. So if you arrive to the hotell almost empty late at night the car will be on 100% when you leave early in the morning the day after...

    Just out of curiosity, how many days per year do you drive 300+km?


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    lukestern:
    Lars997:

    But - the truth is different. Keep in mind, there is not even one single super charger in any main city (Munich, Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Cologne, Berlin, Hamburg, Düsseldorf, etc. ). Tesla placed them along Autobahns and far away of the center of cities. In other words - the super fast charging you only have outside on long distance trips. If you want to use the chance to fill up that Tesla in the city while you are at your appointment, you are stuck with the same crappy infrastructure as I use with my Volvo.

    Most public places are charging with 7.2 KW, only a few going up to 11KW. Many of the German private homes are not capable to install a charger faster than 11KW (16A). The 22KW is the maximum you can do at your private home today and they require arm thick wires and modern infrastructure of your home connection. That 145KW Tesla power stations you will never find in private homes. Ergo - you need 10-15 hours to charge the car in a city and not only 45 minutes. 

    You will not need superchargers in the city center. You completely missed the point there and their purpose. Superchargers are there for those days when you commute longer. You don't see any petrol stations in the city center parking garage in Frankfurt, do you? Smiley. When you have an appointment in the city you park up just like everybody else and don't need to bother about charging... And if you do charge up anyway at your destination, then you will fill upp with 50-100km/hour on slow public chargers. Let's say that you did commute 100km from outside Frankfurt to your business meeting. When you left home you were on full charge. When you arrive to the parking garage you charge up those driven 100km in one hour, and if you don't bother to charge, you will comfortable drive back the 100km without charging... and if you need to drive longer, there is a Supercharger where you solve that problem...

    11kw at home is more than good enough. If you come home late in the evening with almost empty battery it will be on 100% charge the morning after (or about 5-6 hours). The car is filled up while you're sleeping. You NEVER need a quick charging at home.

    Supercharging is for those days when you drive 300km+ and then they come in handy along the Autobahn. All other days you charge only at home overnight. Or if you stay at a hotel there is nowadays always a few 11kw chargers available on decent hotels in their garage. So if you arrive to the hotell almost empty late at night the car will be on 100% when you leave early in the morning the day after...

    Just out of curiosity, how many days per year do you drive 300+km?

    No no... I got the point of superchargers. BUT - If I use the car to go from one meeting to another, I should have the chance to charge the car in between. And matter in fact - 300km one way in the morning and 300 back in the evening is what happens very often to me and many others. The car just doesn't do this - or better said, you can efficiently plan your day with! 

    Again - if the infrastructure would be better - more high speed chargers in the city and on the way, the whole thing might work better. And - the more EVs we are seeing, the more infrastructure is required.

    Another nice example. In Zurich Airport they have 6 EV Chargers. Guess what people do - they park there and go for 2 weeks vacation or 1 week business trip. Sometimes I see the same car standing there after 3 weeks. So - what's the point of EV if the turn-over and mass usage doesn't work? Why not installing a plug on every parking in the Garage? One day it will be standard, but we are not there yet!


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    600km in one day for one meeting cannot be that common...


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    You would wonder how often I do 600km a day for one meeting. I also fly to New York for 1 or 3 h meetings, quiet frequently. 


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Lars997:

    You would wonder how often I do 600km a day for one meeting. I also fly to New York for 1 or 3 h meetings, quiet frequently. 

    The downside of being a business man... Smiley

    My wife does 200 km a day on average...and she is a doctor only.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    RC:
    Lars997:

    You would wonder how often I do 600km a day for one meeting. I also fly to New York for 1 or 3 h meetings, quiet frequently. 

    The downside of being a business man... Smiley

    My wife does 200 km a day on average...and she is a doctor only.

    See it like that - sitting long distance in a Business Class is one of the view occasions where you can sit down, relax, rest, enjoy a glas of wine and most important - sleep! Smiley


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    I cannot get a good rest on a plane, business, first private... Just can't... We can better food and better wines at restaurants, planes a noisy and cramped, even the A380. The only upside is that you can catch up on recent movies since it seems impossible to do that in our normal life these days.

    I try to have people fly or drive to see me not the opposite angry But obviously it nicely pays your bills kiss


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    SciFrog:

    I cannot get a good rest on a plane, business, first private... Just can't... We can better food and better wines at restaurants, planes a noisy and cramped, even the A380. The only upside is that you can catch up on recent movies since it seems impossible to do that in our normal life these days.

    I try to have people fly or drive to see me not the opposite angry But obviously it nicely pays your bills kiss

     

    Purpose of Lars' long trips are to see clients like you Smiley


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    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    SciFrog:

    I cannot get a good rest on a plane, business, first private... Just can't... We can better food and better wines at restaurants, planes a noisy and cramped, even the A380. The only upside is that you can catch up on recent movies since it seems impossible to do that in our normal life these days.

    I try to have people fly or drive to see me not the opposite angry But obviously it nicely pays your bills kiss

    I fly economy 99% of the time. Flight time passes by fast. How? iPad...latest favorite tv shows episodes...latest movies (or movies I would like to watch again)...music and the flight is faster over than you think. Sometimes I even play a game like SimCity or Mahjong.

    Food? I buy two small bottles of Coke Zero and one small bottle of ice tea before the flight, also some peanuts. I usually eat the meals they serve and Lufthansa Transatlantic flights food is OK (usually pasta or chicken). Then I drink a couple of glasses of tomato and orange juice and I'm fine. Wife is registered as an in-flight doctor with Lufthansa, so we usually get better treatment/attention from the crew anyway. Smiley

    Only thing I hate is flying with stopovers. We usually fly directly nonstop, which makes flying economy tolerable. Would never pay double or triple or more for flying business or first class, sorry.

    We fly to Vegas this summer in business class because I was able to use collected miles for that but usually, I don't care. The additional comfort in business and/or first class wouldn't be worth thousands to me. I am used to much worse conditions in my life, so I better save my money...for cars and all. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    I cannot get a good rest on a plane, business, first private... Just can't... We can better food and better wines at restaurants, planes a noisy and cramped, even the A380. The only upside is that you can catch up on recent movies since it seems impossible to do that in our normal life these days.

    I try to have people fly or drive to see me not the opposite angry But obviously it nicely pays your bills kiss

     

    Purpose of Lars' long trips are to see clients like you Smiley

    Exactly SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    I cannot get a good rest on a plane, business, first private... Just can't... We can better food and better wines at restaurants, planes a noisy and cramped, even the A380. The only upside is that you can catch up on recent movies since it seems impossible to do that in our normal life these days.

    I try to have people fly or drive to see me not the opposite angry But obviously it nicely pays your bills kiss

    I fly economy 99% of the time. Flight time passes by fast. How? iPad...latest favorite tv shows episodes...latest movies (or movies I would like to watch again)...music and the flight is faster over than you think. Sometimes I even play a game like SimCity or Mahjong.

    Food? I buy two small bottles of Coke Zero and one small bottle of ice tea before the flight, also some peanuts. I usually eat the meals they serve and Lufthansa Transatlantic flights food is OK (usually pasta or chicken). Then I drink a couple of glasses of tomato and orange juice and I'm fine. Wife is registered as a in-flight doctor, so we usually get better treatment/attention from the crew anyway. 

    Only thing I hate is flying with stopovers. We usually fly directly nonstop, which makes flying economy tolerable. Would never pay double or triple or more for flying business or first class, sorry.

    We fly to Vegas this summer in business class because I was able to use collected miles for that. 

    I agree - with the right preperation you can make a long haul in Economy convenient. Extra pillows, good head set with noise cancellation, ear plugs, shades - some extra food and drink and it is pretty convenient. At the end - it is as good as you want it to be. It has lot to do setting the right "message in your head".

    I fly business with the family whenever the rate is acceptable or if I can use miles. In high season it is sometimes steep so I don't mind sitting in the rear and saving 12k€ (actually a good net income for 10h flight Smiley). As all of us have gold status at Lufthansa (even the little one Smiley) - it is easier to get more often the chance to buy an upgrade on miles! 

    Also - today there is Premium Eco at Lufthansa. It is way better than Eco. The seat reclines more and the leg room is good, too. I almost prefer Premium Eco with the Family as the family still sits close together. In business the seats are far apart from each other which results that my wife sits next to my daughter and I'm 2 meters away - too far to have conversation or play games with the little one.  

    Last not least - I also think that the kids should understand that flying business is "not normal". It is important to keep them down to earth (hehe... even when flying). 

     


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    kiss Kids never cared about flying business or first. We only flew once business with our daughter when she was smaller. Other passengers in business felt annoyed by the kids (my daughter and another little girl) playing on the ground there (lots of room) and made complaints. yes Not quite the experience we expected.

    We don't need any pillow or whatever but we have a clever flight preparation: While other people usually wake up in the morning at 4 am, then drive to the airport at 6 am and take the flight at 8 am, ending up tired and exhausted in the US after a 10 hours flight, we do it differently. We drive the night before the flight to the airport hotel, take a nice suite, enjoy a nice meal there and sleep 8-10 hours, waking up relaxed and refreshed. Then, we slowly move to the terminal because we already left our luggage there the night before (including check-in) and we board the flight refreshed and rested. Other people sleep during the flight but we do it the other way around. When we arrive in the US, we usually don't feel too tired. The fatigue usually comes at the hotel in the evening, which is perfect because we don't suffer from a jet lag at all the next day. 

     


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    Going from Europe to USA in coach is probably fine, it is a day flight and you can keep busy. From USA to Europe however is a whole different experience, especially with kids. For example in coach you have to wait up to two hours to get a drink or food, by then you just want to sleep or finish your movie. You can eat in the airport before but some flights are early, dining at 5pm isn't really our thing. We usually travel with 5 people, buying food and drinks before for everyone and bringing them to the plan and eat it would be inconvenient. If we do like RC we would have to carry 15 cans of liquid to the plane plus the food angry. Premium eco might be an acceptable compromise but usually but the time we buy tickets, it is probably would be full. Lately we have been able to buy round trip flights to Europe in business for 250k miles each person, that's a great use of miles. And then like you said there are stopovers and long flights. We are going to Abu Dhabi and Maldives next month, in coach it would be a whole different experience (14 hour flight plus a 3.5 hours flight). Other benefits of business is shorter security lines and access to the lounge. The lounge is a huge plus when you have a stop or a delay.


    Re: 2018 Mercedes G-Class

    We are on the same line as Lars . It all depends on the condition . Only difference , when we take business, kids stay in economy 

    SciFrog :  next month, we too are in the Maldives and Dubaï ......   Flying economy this time, as prices were crazy for Business . That is also the reason why we stay in Dubaï . To cut the uncomfortable economy flight to the minimum .

    And as you also say, the benefit of Business is not only the confort in cabin it is the whole process before and after . It makes a HUGE difference . 

    A good friend of mine has a family  private plane ( intercontinental jet ) She always says she is much more comfortable flying Business or First on commercial airlines then in her private jet ( don't know what it is exactly, has 3 engines ) 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


     
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