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    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Given Ferrari's reputation, I'm surprised that they'd license their name to Acer (a low end computer manufacturer) rather than Apple, IBM, HP or Dell.



    I guess that Apple, IBM, HP and Dell would want their products associated with the concepts reliability, durability, and low maintenance, which would rule out Ferrari.

    OWN3D

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    WELL nick,

    they handed you your ass here, but you have helped them by acting like a status driven F poseur.

    the stradale, enzo and 550 to me are great cars, as are many past F's. for me,
    the 430 is reaching an all bling look, while performing fantastically. but F knows its customer [nick]

    in 10 months as an F driver, i put 8900 miles on my CS, and found the group of F DRIVERS who hang out on fchat and rennteam. it is a very small group:
    -chalstrad [peter, spa and CT]
    -tdf360 [gary, N CA]
    -wch [will WA?]
    -brian stradale
    -mr doody
    and a few others out of hundreds of owners who post. many of my friends who drive their P's park their F's.

    the problem is separating blatant materialism and showing off from sports cars. every brand plays on some uniqueness, but why do you own your car?

    i was pissed at Porsche when the Cayenne came out, but really does it matter what they make as long as they are built and drive like Porsches? exclusivity is an unsophisticated concept required by status seekers, and i have fallen for it sometimes too.

    well, we just got a Cayenne Turbo to replace the F product QP that had 40 days out of service in 4 months of ownership. and the CT stunned me, it is outstanding and a Porsche in every way. i also recently got an 05 Boxster S which, status wise in materialistic LA is considered a ladies or fag's car. this also is an outstanding PORSCHE, which ultimately will lead to the demise of the 911 through better handling by design.

    F makes great cars, and i hear plans a starter F for the lower classes [$120k], but the competition is such that cars almost as good [objectively in daily use] as last night's heavies [430, gt2] are coming out at 1/3 the price: Boxster S, Z06

    one could argue a smart shopper buys value, even in sportscars. and that is where F and burberry.....ahem...

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    watt said:
    WELL nick,

    they handed you your ass here, but you have helped them by acting like a status driven F poseur.

    the stradale, enzo and 550 to me are great cars, as are many past F's. for me,
    the 430 is reaching an all bling look, while performing fantastically. but F knows its customer [nick]

    in 10 months as an F driver, i put 8900 miles on my CS, and found the group of F DRIVERS who hang out on fchat and rennteam. it is a very small group:
    -chalstrad [peter, spa and CT]
    -tdf360 [gary, N CA]
    -wch [will WA?]
    -brian stradale
    -mr doody
    and a few others out of hundreds of owners who post. many of my friends who drive their P's park their F's.

    the problem is separating blatant materialism and showing off from sports cars. every brand plays on some uniqueness, but why do you own your car?

    i was pissed at Porsche when the Cayenne came out, but really does it matter what they make as long as they are built and drive like Porsches? exclusivity is an unsophisticated concept required by status seekers, and i have fallen for it sometimes too.

    well, we just got a Cayenne Turbo to replace the F product QP that had 40 days out of service in 4 months of ownership. and the CT stunned me, it is outstanding and a Porsche in every way. i also recently got an 05 Boxster S which, status wise in materialistic LA is considered a ladies or fag's car. this also is an outstanding PORSCHE, which ultimately will lead to the demise of the 911 through better handling by design.

    F makes great cars, and i hear plans a starter F for the lower classes [$120k], but the competition is such that cars almost as good [objectively in daily use] as last night's heavies [430, gt2] are coming out at 1/3 the price: Boxster S, Z06

    one could argue a smart shopper buys value, even in sportscars. and that is where F and burberry.....ahem...



    Watt you agree with me but just do not realize it.

    You indicate "exclusivity is a concept for unsophisticated status seekers" implying that true sport car enthusiast does not want exclusivity. Tell me, why did Porsche limit its production of the CGT if exclusivity is irrelevant?

    Why is AM limiting the production of its V8 which has been sold out for over 2 years?

    Why are several new sport car manufacturers Fiske and others entering the market with the primary objective of limiting the production of the cars? What do they know many on this board do not understand?

    If value is important then it is exactly why I have problems with Porsche. How can you explain that by most measures the CGT is the finest sport car on the planet and yet presently it is being discounted 10% off MSRP and will continue to decline. The other day there was a new CGT on EBay which had been listed for two weeks and had an asking opening bid of $400,000 AND IT DID NOT GET ONE BID! The GT2 which you are very familiar with depreciated more than the CGT despite being top in its class in performance. The TT took a bath depreciation wise which has not been seen in years. I will spare the hits taken by the 996 and 987. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO PORSCHE MADE CARS?

    No, the people getting their asses handed to them are Porsche owners.

    Is Ferrari about bling? In part yes. But it is a car I can drive and enjoy in as a sport car. It feel and sensory input is something in my mind cannot be match by no other sport car. If I was a hardcore track person I would buy some of the lesser cars you mention. When it involves; value, beauty, performance and sensual experience look to Ferrari!

    BTW you have my condolence regarding your purchase of the Cayenne TT. You will find out soon enough why.

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    CGT on EBay which had been listed for two weeks and had an asking opening bid of $400,000 AND IT DID NOT GET ONE BID


    Who the frick would buy a CGT on eBay?

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    nberry said:You indicate "exclusivity is a concept for unsophisticated status seekers" implying that true sport car enthusiast does not want exclusivity. Tell me, why did Porsche limit its production of the CGT if exclusivity is irrelevant?

    Why is AM limiting the production of its V8 which has been sold out for over 2 years?

    Why are several new sport car manufacturers Fiske and others entering the market with the primary objective of limiting the production of the cars? What do they know many on this board do not understand?



    Again, your lack of business sense stuns me

    Let's see, I'm the CEO of Fikse (are you sure that's the right name of the company? The Fikse I've heard of only makes wheels but whatever..) I want to build a sportscar. Should I limit production or not limit production? I think that's the first question I should ask myself, right? Well I think I should limit production because then my future customers will feel special buying my cars and to help them feel extra special, I'll charge them a lot of money and make sure their dealers require even more money under the table to get their hands on one or else they can wait years and years for the car.

    Come on? If I'm a new sportscar manufacturer, or any manufacturer for that matter - you first need to figure out how many customers are out there that might want your product. Then you need to decide if you want to build a factory to satisfy every last one of them and take all the risk associated with hiring people (including expensive European workers who get really good benefits and you can't fire them if sales don't materialize) or maybe you could outsource production but you still need to get in line behind the partner automaker's own production needs. Again, limiting production, especially of niche items (i.e. high end or "pure" sportscars, complicated expensive watches, etc.) is simply smart business for a lot of reasons but I seriously doubt these car mfg's are thinking like you do. Aston Martin has gone from 42 cars in 1994 to 4,000 cars this year. Is that limiting production? They're also looking to increase production over the coming years. Maserati's CEO (just spun out from Ferrari) has recently said that he needs to be producing at least 50,000 vehicles to be profitable and wants to achieve 100K vehicles within 10 years. What say you?

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:You indicate "exclusivity is a concept for unsophisticated status seekers" implying that true sport car enthusiast does not want exclusivity. Tell me, why did Porsche limit its production of the CGT if exclusivity is irrelevant?

    Why is AM limiting the production of its V8 which has been sold out for over 2 years?

    Why are several new sport car manufacturers Fiske and others entering the market with the primary objective of limiting the production of the cars? What do they know many on this board do not understand?



    Again, your lack of business sense stuns me

    Let's see, I'm the CEO of Fikse (are you sure that's the right name of the company? The Fikse I've heard of only makes wheels but whatever..) I want to build a sportscar. Should I limit production or not limit production? I think that's the first question I should ask myself, right? Well I think I should limit production because then my future customers will feel special buying my cars and to help them feel extra special, I'll charge them a lot of money and make sure their dealers require even more money under the table to get their hands on one or else they can wait years and years for the car.

    Come on? If I'm a new sportscar manufacturer, or any manufacturer for that matter - you first need to figure out how many customers are out there that might want your product. Then you need to decide if you want to build a factory to satisfy every last one of them and take all the risk associated with hiring people (including expensive European workers who get really good benefits and you can't fire them if sales don't materialize) or maybe you could outsource production but you still need to get in line behind the partner automaker's own production needs. Again, limiting production, especially of niche items (i.e. high end or "pure" sportscars, complicated expensive watches, etc.) is simply smart business for a lot of reasons but I seriously doubt these car mfg's are thinking like you do. Aston Martin has gone from 42 cars in 1994 to 4,000 cars this year. Is that limiting production? They're also looking to increase production over the coming years. Maserati's CEO (just spun out from Ferrari) has recently said that he needs to be producing at least 50,000 vehicles to be profitable and wants to achieve 100K vehicles within 10 years. What say you?



    mazer is gonna have to do a much better job with their cars (maybe get something other than ferrari technology) if their gonna do that given how poorly they match up against even chevy:

    http://www.986host.com/gallery/benkea/vettethrashesmazer

    once you see the image, click to make it bigger.

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Notice the Maseratis weight distribution, its 53 front, 47 rear, wich is the exact opposite of the newer Quattroporte Sedans platform.

    The almost 600lb heavier Maserati Spyder has smaller tires than the Corvette, 15 less hp and practically matches the Vette in acceleration. That says volumes for its Ferrari sourced V8, but also poses questions for Ferrari. Why does Maserati have half the service intervals and double the warranty period of a similar engined Ferrari??????????

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Watt, you made my day by including me in your list of "drivers"! If the Boxster is a girl's car, you may have to move on to the Cayman. That could be a very interesting track toy.

    I've seen comments here and elsewhere to the effect that Porsche and Ferrari lack "exclusivity." I've wondered whether there will be a decent market for more limited production and therefore presumably exclusive cars - Project 1221? Pagani? Spyker? I've recently seen print ads for what I believe is a US built bespoke car - help me - dea machinata? Something like that.

    As a "hardcore track person," to borrow Nick's phrase, I've found that relative exclusivity has a significant cost. I envy the Porsche community's infrastructure of independent prep shops, aftermarket parts manufacturers, amateur and pro race teams, etc - just not available for the US Ferrari enthusiast. I'd love to take my Challenge car, install a wing and spoiler, and take it to Grand Am, but it's so much more practical to campaign a Porsche.

    Sorry to interrupt the battle of the marques.

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_pressDetails.asp?pressNo=327

    flippers are into playing these "special", "numbered", "limited edition", "exclusive" fcar products too:

    http://search.ebay.com/ferrari-digital-camera_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8



    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Does it come with a F1 paddle shutter release?

    Porsche and Porsche Design crank out some goofy stuff also,
    golf balls, belts, watches, frying pans and toasters.

    http://www.siemensappliances.co.uk/site%2FPorschecoolwalltoaster_29.asp

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Does it come with a F1 paddle shutter release?

    Porsche and Porsche Design crank out some goofy stuff also,
    golf balls, belts, watches, frying pans and toasters.

    http://www.siemensappliances.co.uk/site%2FPorschecoolwalltoaster_29.asp



    yeah, they're both whores

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Porsche and Porsche Design crank out some goofy stuff also,
    golf balls, belts, watches, frying pans and toasters.




    Golf balls? Cool. Got to get some for my next round of golf!!!

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    Jeff (in SF) said:
    Again, your lack of business sense stuns me

    Let's see, I'm the CEO of Fikse (are you sure that's the right name of the company? The Fikse I've heard of only makes wheels but whatever..) I want to build a sportscar. Should I limit production or not limit production? I think that's the first question I should ask myself, right?




    I think Nick intended to refer to the new company started up by Henrik Fisker, who until a few months ago was Styling Chief at Aston Martin, and responsible for the much-praised aesthetics of the current generation of AM models. He departed supposedly because the Ford corporation was just too small for him and J. P. Mays, who is Ford's Styling Chief and was therefore his boss.

    My bet is that the Fisker car, if it makes it to market at all, will be very exclusive for no better reason than a shortage of company capital!

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Porsche and Porsche Design crank out some goofy stuff also,
    golf balls, belts, watches, frying pans and toasters.


    Yeah, but Porsche Design is not related to Porsche AG
    It's just FA Porsche using his name

    Re: Ferrari becoming "automotive Burberry"... (from evo)

    Thats why I seperated the two in mentioning them. However the name is the same, most people don't know, so there is some confusion in the public about that.

     
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