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    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    The hate for Pirelli is really quite un-called for. 

    We all know they were forced to engineered a bad tire simply because F1 asked them to, to promote 'racing action'. Of course they can engineer a tire that will last quite a distance with good grip, but  with those tires the Red Bull will just simply run circles around everyone else, not that they aren't already.

    I might be the one of the few members here that have driven all 3 OEM tires, PS2, PZero and the 050A on the 997 Turbo. 

    I HATED the PS2, it might have the highest dry grip when warm, but it's also the most slippery in the rain, like driving on ice. It also behaves quite badly when the temperature is cold, outside of racing tires, it's the most one dimensional tire ever. Maybe the PSS is a much better improvement but I haven't had a chance to drive that tire yet.

    The 050A was the best in the rain, followed closely by the PZero, they both pretty much corners on rails when wet. While these 2 give up grip earlier than the PS2 in the dry, they work better over a wider range of temperatures, especially the PZero. 

    The PZero also project a much more pleasant tire roar over the PS2, that tire was unbearable, the 050A is a little bit quieter than the PZero but I didn't like the sound it makes. 

    I may be the odd one here who prefers the PZero over PS2, but from personal daily driving experiences it is the best out of the 3.  I think Porsche testing came to the same conclusion too.


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    Whoopsy, you are spot on regarding PS2 and the Bridgestone. However, I have found that what you lose in the dry with the B'stone vis a vis Michelin, is not significant for road driving compared to the security you obtain in the wet.

    The limited life span of the P Zero is a disadvantage IMO. Perhaps, this is not so in Vancouver but in a Mediterranean climate the Pirellis practically melt away and when they start wearing out their characteristics rapidly deteriorate.

    I wanted to have Michelin on my car because I like the brand but the Bridgestones suit me more.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    Would happily have Bridgestone or Michelin on my car having had Pirelli on my 997 and default on my 991 (and XC90 for that matter) for both cold (sub 20 Deg) use - which is most of the time in the UK, and ware rate. (<5K on 997 rears and <10K on XC90 fronts)

    At <10 deg the car will actually skip at very slow speeds (as if to just plough forward) in the first 5 minutes of driving. This also happened on the Volvo from new - fixed when replaced with Goodyears.

    Pirelli are way off par in my humble experience and have been for at least 5 years. 


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    reginos:

    Whoopsy, you are spot on regarding PS2 and the Bridgestone. However, I have found that what you lose in the dry with the B'stone vis a vis Michelin, is not significant for road driving compared to the security you obtain in the wet.

    The limited life span of the P Zero is a disadvantage IMO. Perhaps, this is not so in Vancouver but in a Mediterranean climate the Pirellis practically melt away and when they start wearing out their characteristics rapidly deteriorate.

    I wanted to have Michelin on my car because I like the brand but the Bridgestones suit me more.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"

     

    Yes, the PZero does wear off quicker than the Bridgestone. It's also a bit greasy when exposed to extended heat, like a long drive on a really hot summer day. 

    It's too bad Porsche doesn't offer the Bridgestone right now. 


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    Whoopsy: Maybe the PSS is a much better improvement but I haven't had a chance to drive that tire yet.

    PSS is a dream, compared to the PS2: Better wet handling, more grip  and more precision on the front axle plus they start greasing much much later, when on a track (high temperature behaviour) I'm currently using them on a 987S, last year without, now with N0 specification.

    The load index ot the needed sizes (235,265/35-19) PSS is 6-7 points higher then the former PS2, which may be also a reason, that the PSS are a little bit less comfortable. Workarround: I reduced the tire pressure 0.1 psi less then PAG recommendations (2.2 / 2.3  FA/RA) which is within the Michelin specification range and good enough for some streetable runs.


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    Whoopsy:

    .. I HATED the PS2, it might have the highest dry grip when warm, but it's also the most slippery in the rain, like driving on ice. It also behaves quite badly when the temperature is cold, outside of racing tires, it's the most one dimensional tire ever. Maybe the PSS is a much better improvement but I haven't had a chance to drive that tire yet.

     

    We are not discussing PS2 which is an old tire design. Even the 050A N1 is newer than the PS2. You ought to test the Michelin PSS.


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    Anyone had experience with the Continental SC3 N1? It is a never mentioned alternative. Is it that bad?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    On my M3, 997 and Boxster S I insisted that the car not have Conti tires on them. I told the dealer I wouldn't accept delivery if the car had them. I think they're garbage, especially when the temperature drops below around 15 degrees C. Maybe they have improved over the last 5 - 6 years, but I prefer Michelin now anyway as they seem to have better tread life, handling and better performance in cooler weather.


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    Whoopsy:

    The hate for Pirelli is really quite un-called for. 

    We all know they were forced to engineered a bad tire simply because F1 asked them to, to promote 'racing action'. Of course they can engineer a tire that will last quite a distance with good grip, but  with those tires the Red Bull will just simply run circles around everyone else, not that they aren't already.

    I might be the one of the few members here that have driven all 3 OEM tires, PS2, PZero and the 050A on the 997 Turbo. 

    I HATED the PS2, it might have the highest dry grip when warm, but it's also the most slippery in the rain, like driving on ice. It also behaves quite badly when the temperature is cold, outside of racing tires, it's the most one dimensional tire ever. Maybe the PSS is a much better improvement but I haven't had a chance to drive that tire yet.

    The 050A was the best in the rain, followed closely by the PZero, they both pretty much corners on rails when wet. While these 2 give up grip earlier than the PS2 in the dry, they work better over a wider range of temperatures, especially the PZero. 

    The PZero also project a much more pleasant tire roar over the PS2, that tire was unbearable, the 050A is a little bit quieter than the PZero but I didn't like the sound it makes. 

    I may be the odd one here who prefers the PZero over PS2, but from personal daily driving experiences it is the best out of the 3.  I think Porsche testing came to the same conclusion too.

    I have had nearly the reverse experience with the PS2 v. 050A.  I have found the 050A marginally better in the rain but find the dry grip lacking compared with the PS2.  Also the 050A seems to have a softer, less stiff sidewall that exhibits itself when on the open road with crosswinds and near large trucks.  My car moves a bit with the 050A while with the PS2 it was beyond steady.

    One reason for the difference is wet grip could be attributable to different road materials.  In the Midwest rough surfaced gravel is used for the surface.  I would not notice any issue with temperature sensitivity since I switch cars for the different seasons.  Winters in Chicago and the Midwest require a vehicle with higher ground clearance.  


    Re: 996 GT3 crash in Germany

    pierre:

    Drive it not only with your feet, hands and butt, but use your brain too and it'll be all good. And depending on your experience and skills, get some driver coaching/course.

    Congrats and enjoy it! wink

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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