Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - 997/Audi? - Page1

Aug 26, 2004 1:42:20 PM

RR4: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2003

997/Audi?

I sat in a 997 today. My first thought was Audi.
The switchgear reminded me of Audi and the transmission/gear shifting is totally Audi. It has that Audi "springy" feel when you shift it.
My mechanic who just got from training on the 997 confirmed to me that there are a ton of Audi components on the car.

The car looks great though, as does the interior. But I am afraid that for the sake of saving costs the "parts bin" style of production has completely made its way into Porsche.

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Aug 26, 2004 1:54:32 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8763, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: RR4

Re: 997/Audi?

For Audi read VW Group. So - 997 therefore shares components with Lamborghini

Audi

VW

Skoda

Seat

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Aug 26, 2004 3:06:51 PM

Revvv: Pilot; Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL , United States; Posts: 377, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 25, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: 997/Audi?

I am not aware of any Audi parts on the 997. This is a Porsche, with parts made by an array of manufacturers. I can tell you, that I have never seen a higher level of quality in materials or design. If that is like an Audi; than that is a real compliment to the 997. Revvv

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Aug 26, 2004 4:41:09 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 57740, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: RR4

Re: 997/Audi?

Quote:
RR4 said:
I sat in a 997 today. My first thought was Audi.
The switchgear reminded me of Audi and the transmission/gear shifting is totally Audi. It has that Audi "springy" feel when you shift it.
My mechanic who just got from training on the 997 confirmed to me that there are a ton of Audi components on the car.

The car looks great though, as does the interior. But I am afraid that for the sake of saving costs the "parts bin" style of production has completely made its way into Porsche.

Since when does Audi use Aisin manual gearboxes?

Your mechanic doesn't have a clue what he's talking about...nothing new to most mechanics all over the world, no matter what car brand.

And since when does the training tell mechanics what brand parts are used on a car? This is pure mechanic BS.
Porsche manufactures only 20% of all parts themselves, the other 80% are delivered just in time by suppliers. Suppliers which are used for Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes, Lamborghini, GM and even Bentley. Not to talk about other car brands.

You're looking for Audi parts? The 986 Boxster shares a manual gearbox with certain Audi models.
The A/C control unit on the 996 was from Audi too, some other A/C parts from VW.
The Cayenne is a different story, a lot of parts are actually VW parts but it might be interesting that even if they have the VW logo on them, most were developed by Porsche engineers.

The gearknob is a salute to the 993. And it is no secret that the 356 and 911 are actually based (especially the engine) on the Volkswagen Käfer (Beetle). Of course the similarities ended very early in the 50s.

The Porsche manual gearbox uses cables for shifting, this is why you have the same feel as with Audi because Audi uses it too...like many other manufacturers.

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Aug 26, 2004 5:49:58 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8763, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: 997/Audi?

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
RR4 said:
I sat in a 997 today. My first thought was Audi.
The switchgear reminded me of Audi and the transmission/gear shifting is totally Audi. It has that Audi "springy" feel when you shift it.
My mechanic who just got from training on the 997 confirmed to me that there are a ton of Audi components on the car.

The car looks great though, as does the interior. But I am afraid that for the sake of saving costs the "parts bin" style of production has completely made its way into Porsche.

The Cayenne is a different story, a lot of parts are actually VW parts but it might be interesting that even if they have the VW logo on them, most were developed by Porsche engineers.
.

;; and there was me thinking most of the parts for the Cayenne were taken from an army tank

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Aug 27, 2004 9:34:18 AM

Pentium: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 2924, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: RR4

Re: 997/Audi?

Before buying my 997 I drove an Audi A4 for 3 years (the latest version of it).

So I know what I am talking about when I am saying that the 997 and the A4 are very different animals.

One thing I will give you: the 997 controls are more ergonomic than the 996 ones, and Audi has indeed one of the more studied dashboards from this point of view. Maybe that's what made you feel at home

I sensed that myself (the quick lane change function of the blinker, the malfunction light bulbs sensors, etc.).

About parts: really I don't care whom manufactured what as long as Porsche's Quality Assurance department does their job right. One of the reasons I bought the 997 was to get away from the "cost-saving" mania that Mercedes and BMW for example are suffering right now. People carriers they are building, not cars. At least not my definition of a car

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Aug 27, 2004 9:48:04 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Pentium

Re: 997/Audi?

I can assure you that the buttons, etc... don't feel cheap at all on the SL500 and the S600, and they certainly don't feel like people carrier either

Not defending my cars here, just being honest.
Audi is best, I'll admit to that, but Merc is pretty good too, at least with the two cars I have.
The SL is one of the few vehicles I know that actually uses real aluminium for its aircon control knobs (Cayenne and cheap grey plastic anyone?)
I would assume the same for the 7 series interior, ugly it is, but well built and strong quality it looks.

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Aug 27, 2004 11:12:45 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8099, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997/Audi?

Quote:
Fanch said:
I can assure you that the buttons, etc... don't feel cheap at all on the SL500 and the S600, and they certainly don't feel like people carrier either
Not defending my cars here, just being honest.
Audi is best, I'll admit to that, but Merc is pretty good too, at least with the two cars I have.
The SL is one of the few vehicles I know that actually uses real aluminium for its aircon control knobs (Cayenne and cheap grey plastic anyone?)
I would assume the same for the 7 series interior, ugly it is, but well built and strong quality it looks.

You were mentioning the top-of-the-line cars. Even they are compared to the rivals comparably cheap in materials and love for details. The cupholders in the Audi A8, at least in the previous model, were solid aluminium - talking about plastic constructions in the S-class anyone?

The quality was heavily improved on the upper-class MB models in the recent past (new SL, S-class facelift) but take a look into a std. C-class. Ugly.
The new BMW models shout "cost savings" everytime you look at it. Why should I buy an X3 with such a premium if the interior is that cheap. I cannot imagine how a company can take a step backwards in quality and appereance - at least not as a premium manufacturer. GM can do that...

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Aug 27, 2004 12:11:57 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: 997/Audi?

I completely agree with you Ferdie.
I mentionned the SL500 because it is the direct competitor to the 997, price wise that is.
One should compare apples with apples.
X3 looks and is cheap, I sat in one, very disappointed.
A Class is a in a different league, but certainly feels cheap compared to Audi A3 for example.
Plastic is everywhere on cars, but you can have good looking plastic like the one used on the high end Mercs for example (IMHO) as opposed to the one used in my 996 (the bit surrounding the PCM, the air cons, etc. look and are quite cheap basic plastic) much improved on the 997.

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Aug 27, 2004 2:42:15 PM

Basalt: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 149, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997/Audi?

Lets hope the quality isn't the same as high end MB models! I've got a CL55 and the reason I've bought the S is because of the appalling plastics on the dash of the CL.. oh, and the fact that the car has been at the dealers more times than I can remember, oh and that MB could not give a .... .... about it's customers. Oh, and did I mention it's the third MB I've had with similar appalling quality? Sorry guy's. I'm on a roll. Good riddance to them and fingers crossed, please let me have a good time with the Porsche.

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Aug 27, 2004 2:47:42 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Basalt

Re: 997/Audi?

I undertand you Basalt. Seems you're not the only one having problems with Merc. RC had similar experiences.
Guess I'm lucky so far!

I'll keep my fingers crossed!

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Aug 28, 2004 12:00:07 AM

DD694: Co-Pilot; Loc: SoCalifornia, USA; Posts: 281, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 16, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997/Audi?

My second 2003 E500 had the right front lower control arm pivot bolt lose its nut and the bolt backed out of the pivot bushing and left me stranded, fortunately, in a parking lot. No explanation or sympathy from MBUSA or the dealer. I ditched it for a 2004 Lexus LS430 with "Sport" Suspension on which everything works perfectly. Drove the Lexus 7,000 miles across the US and back in May/June and never had a single problem. It gave me 25 MPG at 80+ MPH. Very comfortable, too. No more M-Bs for me.

My 997S is due here in November. After seeing the real thing today at the dealer, it will be tough waiting. I guess I will manage.

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Aug 28, 2004 10:58:46 PM

napo: Newbie; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 20, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2004; Reply to: Basalt

Re: 997/Audi?

i also sat in a 997 S today and i completely fell in love with it... it didnt remind me of any car... its different and stylish.... i love it! its very comfortable and has lots of head room... porsche really did it with this one

... oh yea and it has no less then 57 switches i think? lol its an awesome car... the exterior is also beautiful... porsche is the best.

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Aug 30, 2004 11:17:53 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8763, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Basalt

Re: 997/Audi?

Quote:
Basalt said:
Lets hope the quality isn't the same as high end MB models! I've got a CL55 and the reason I've bought the S is because of the appalling plastics on the dash of the CL.. oh, and the fact that the car has been at the dealers more times than I can remember, oh and that MB could not give a .... .... about it's customers. Oh, and did I mention it's the third MB I've had with similar appalling quality? Sorry guy's. I'm on a roll. Good riddance to them and fingers crossed, please let me have a good time with the Porsche.

I am on my 2nd and last BMW. The car itself is fine, no real quality issues, superb engines BUT my local dealers after sales service and workshop standards are amongst the worst I have ever experienced. I've had the car nearly 4 years, three years ago when the brake fluid change was done they reset the service indicator instead of the brake fluid date, three services later it is still wrong. The final insult was the last brake fluid change when after 50 miles all the brake fluid had leaked out due to an incorrectly fitted bleed screw in a brake caliper which left my wife, on her own, stranded in the New Forest. Oh and the brake fluid indicator was incorrectly reset again and still hasn't been put right. Never ever again will I own a BMW!

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Aug 30, 2004 11:36:37 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 57740, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: 997/Audi?

Quote:
Fanch said:
I undertand you Basalt. Seems you're not the only one having problems with Merc. RC had similar experiences.
Guess I'm lucky so far! I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Right, my experience with my former E55 AMG (W211) was pretty bad, never had such problems on a car lately.
On the other hand, my wife's SLK 32 AMG has now 8000 km and NEVER had one single problem, absolutely nothing. I guess it was a good idea that my wife got herself a SLK 32 AMG in it's last production year.

I'm also impressed with Cayenne Turbo quality (almost 9000 km now), no problem, well only a little microswitch failure in the rear hatch. The shifting/throttle delay issue is a setup thing, not a quality issue. Same applies to the excessive brake disc and tire wear.
My 997 Carrera S has now 2800 km and not one single problem, nothing. My first 996 had dozens of little issues at the beginning, what a difference.

Porsche quality has improved substantially over the past years. More money = better quality. Unfortunately Mr. Wiedeking recently made a statement asking for reducing production cost to assure Porsche's future. I'm not sure how reducing production cost can be done without compromising quality. Especially since Porsche depends a lot on supplier quality and quality controlling because 80% of the parts used for building a Porsche are delivered by suppliers. Last time I visited Weissach, I was suprised how many employees of suppliers were visiting Porsche. They all had a little company logo on their jacket or shirt, so it was pretty easy to recognize them. And even those who had a Porsche ID, the company was writing on the ID and it was easily readable.

Porsche uses mainly high quality suppliers, a lot of them have production facilities or logistical bureaus in the Stuttgart area or even in Weissach. Lowering cost should be difficult if it means that suppliers have to cut down cost. And finally Porsche shouldn't reduce cost at any cost because of shareholder value. It is more important to keep up a good quality level, especially on high priced products like Porsche cars.
Customers won't accept any issues anymore and once the reputation is destroyed...

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