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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Forgot - yes it’s an outdated model S. Holding its own after seven years. Now Tesla is sending a software 50 hp to the Model s. So even the older ones will have an additional edge. Will Porsche add power in seven years to their fleet for free to keep them current with the competition?  I doubt it much if looking at the past of any other automaker. If they finally get around to such things I doubt any of you think to thank Tesla for the competition to make it happen. 
    There is simply no competition for 90% of what Tesla is doing so be certain to hang your hat on ring times and fit and finish. As though those are permanent wins worth arguing for. Lol.  
    Maybe browse the latest model 3 quality survey from Bloomberg. They beat the industry like a rug. Satisfaction through the roof as well. They have never seen anything like it. I doubt Tesla cares if non owner are happy. They are just fine with their customers. The part that matters. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    ALDO:

    Auto Motor Sport writes that their source has taken the time:

    Nun ist die Testmannschaft des amerikanischen Autobauers unverrichteter Dinge abgereist – allerdings nicht ohne eine Duftmarke zu hinterlassen. Irgendwie ist es ihnen gelungen ein Stück freie Strecke zu ergattern und konnten von unserer Quelle vor Ort handgestoppt zwei Mal 7:13 Minuten in den Asphalt brennen. Damit unterbot der Tesla nochmals seine ebenfalls inoffzielle Zeit von 7:23 Minuten aus den Vorwochen. An Bord des blauen Tesla Model S saß der ausgewiesene Nordschleifen-Kenner und Rennfahrer Thomas Mutsch. Sein Kollege Andreas Simonsen hatte Tage zuvor seinen roten Testwagen im Abschnitt Bergwerk in die Leitplanken gesetzt. Das havarierte Modell und auch der bei dem Crash unverletzt gebliebene Fahrer kamen nach Insider-Infos nicht mehr zum Einsatz.

    Tesla Model S clocks unofficial 7:13 'Ring time

    Tuesday, November 05, 2019

    Musk's semi-slick and wing-wearing EV goes 29 seconds quicker than the Taycan... we think

    The Tesla Model S that's been hammering around the Nurburgring in recent weeks has been timed by our spies lapping at 7:13, making it 29 seconds quicker than the Porsche Taycan and just 13 seconds off the time set by Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt in the Ferrari 488 Pista. Not only is this time unofficial, though, it's been set by a car with a number modifications. Upgrades such as semi-slicks, lowered suspension and significant aero pieces - including a large fixed rear wing - have been added to the standard car, leaving it rather mismatched with Porsche's unaltered Taycan.

    Tesla boss Elon Musk has confirmed in a tweet that the firm will produce a Nurburgring-spec version of the Model S, which is expected to add a three-motor setup to the handful of modifications you can see in the pictures. That would be quite the machine, given that the twin-motor Model S P100D already holds a power advantage over the 93.4kWh Taycan Turbo with its 100kWh lithium-ion-fed powertrain. The Model S's 7:13 lap time doesn't look so unrealistic after all, particularly when we consider that GT star Thomas Mutsch was behind the wheel.

    That being said, we're yet to learn whether Musk's Tesla Nurburgring car will go into full production or be a special, limited-run car as so many similarly focussed models are. Plus, Porsche has already stated that there's more time in the Taycan, largely because the car it used to clock that 7:42 time was a 680hp Turbo rather than the 761hp Turbo S, so the battle is far from done. The company would almost certainly need to resort to stickier boots and significant chassis modifications to close the gap to Tesla's unofficial advantage - but that isn't exactly out of the Stuttgart firm's usual scope.

    For now, however, Porsche can sit tight knowing it officially remains the maker of the world's fastest production EV between the Green Hell's Bridge and Gantry sections. The ball is firmly in Tesla's court.

    Link: https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-ev/tesla-model-s-clocks-unofficial-7-13--ring-time/40972

    ...taxi for Tesla!  Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:
    Topspeed:

    High price, sure...but "mediocre performance"?

     

    7:43 Ring time compared to 7:13. Yep, very pedestrian especially at a cost of $200,000. Smiley

    99% of all GT3RS owners would be happy if they can clock themselves a 7:43 in their own car - me included Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    ALDO:

    Auto Motor Sport writes that their source has taken the time:

    Nun ist die Testmannschaft des amerikanischen Autobauers unverrichteter Dinge abgereist – allerdings nicht ohne eine Duftmarke zu hinterlassen. Irgendwie ist es ihnen gelungen ein Stück freie Strecke zu ergattern und konnten von unserer Quelle vor Ort handgestoppt zwei Mal 7:13 Minuten in den Asphalt brennen. Damit unterbot der Tesla nochmals seine ebenfalls inoffzielle Zeit von 7:23 Minuten aus den Vorwochen. An Bord des blauen Tesla Model S saß der ausgewiesene Nordschleifen-Kenner und Rennfahrer Thomas Mutsch. Sein Kollege Andreas Simonsen hatte Tage zuvor seinen roten Testwagen im Abschnitt Bergwerk in die Leitplanken gesetzt. Das havarierte Modell und auch der bei dem Crash unverletzt gebliebene Fahrer kamen nach Insider-Infos nicht mehr zum Einsatz.

    I guess Nick (nberry) needs to learn German... Smiley Smiley

    Let's finish this whole Tesla and Nordschleife record story in a whiff of factual reality: There is no record, nothing official, zilch. Nix. Nada. Case closed, not even sure why we're still talking about. Smiley Smiley 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    ALDO:

    Auto Motor Sport writes that their source has taken the time:

    Nun ist die Testmannschaft des amerikanischen Autobauers unverrichteter Dinge abgereist – allerdings nicht ohne eine Duftmarke zu hinterlassen. Irgendwie ist es ihnen gelungen ein Stück freie Strecke zu ergattern und konnten von unserer Quelle vor Ort handgestoppt zwei Mal 7:13 Minuten in den Asphalt brennen. Damit unterbot der Tesla nochmals seine ebenfalls inoffzielle Zeit von 7:23 Minuten aus den Vorwochen. An Bord des blauen Tesla Model S saß der ausgewiesene Nordschleifen-Kenner und Rennfahrer Thomas Mutsch. Sein Kollege Andreas Simonsen hatte Tage zuvor seinen roten Testwagen im Abschnitt Bergwerk in die Leitplanken gesetzt. Das havarierte Modell und auch der bei dem Crash unverletzt gebliebene Fahrer kamen nach Insider-Infos nicht mehr zum Einsatz.

    This source is probably Tesla themselves. Tesla would certainly use these numbers if they were reliable. Earlier lap times were "calculated" based on segment data. You can tell from the way they write it that nothing is reliable Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Forgot - yes it’s an outdated model S. Holding its own after seven years. Now Tesla is sending a software 50 hp to the Model s. So even the older ones will have an additional edge. Will Porsche add power in seven years to their fleet for free to keep them current with the competition?  I doubt it much if looking at the past of any other automaker. If they finally get around to such things I doubt any of you think to thank Tesla for the competition to make it happen. 
     

    Porsche will most certainly do a facelift after 3/3.5 years. More power, new design etc. Like with their other cars Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
     

    Plus, Porsche has already stated that there's more time in the Taycan, largely because the car it used to clock that 7:42 time was a 680hp Turbo rather than the 761hp Turbo S, so the battle is far from done. Th

    That's funny. Thanks for posting. Did not know Porsche used the regular turbo for the test run Smiley

    It seems Porsche has played it very clever. They will certainly kill even Tesla's prototype of a non-existent car with the regular Taycan as delivered to real customers. Should Tesla come back to the NBR at all... 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:

    With Tesla you get a car that cannot do a single fast NBR lap or a normal high-speed run on the Autobahn. You get a cheap interior and flawed technology (like the system chips that are dead after 4 years or so). You get an outdated design (but that might be a matter of taste).

    It speaks volumes to the level of reality distortion and desperation the fact that some would accept a questionable non official laptime of a prototype sedan with semislick tires, emptied interior, track lowered suspensions, prototype engine, ridiculous rear wing, racecar rear and front spoiler, and good knows what else and compare it to a production spec car with street tires, and have no problems with that. Priceless...

    BTW a tuned hybrid big Panamera did a 7:11 without even trying much and no need of fast and furious add on wings and spoilers Smiley, imagine if they tuned a Taycan Turbo S with tires, suspensions, engine, aerodinamics, etc like Tesla did with that Model S.
    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    The moment that Tesla S drove around with a huge wing and track tires, this whole record run became a joke. Not even sure why we're still discussing this scam. yes


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:

    The moment that Tesla S drove around with a huge wing and track tires, this whole record run became a joke. Not even sure why we're still discussing this scam. yes

    Because dove don't get the joke Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:
    RC:

    The moment that Tesla S drove around with a huge wing and track tires, this whole record run became a joke. Not even sure why we're still discussing this scam. yes

    Because dove don't get the joke Smiley

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:
    RC:

    The moment that Tesla S drove around with a huge wing and track tires, this whole record run became a joke. Not even sure why we're still discussing this scam. yes

    Because dove don't get the joke Smiley

    Smiley

    Sorry, auto correct... It's, some don't get the joke in it and took it seriously indecision


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Good thing Porsche never used advanced suspension, stickier tires, Motorsport engines or ugly wings and stuff to improve ring times. All their models are the same. They don’t build any track versions.  Do you guys listen to yourselves at all.   NO hint of self reflection.   Maybe even when you proof read?  It does not sound comical?  No wonder RC wants to stop talking about it so badly (he is perhaps reflecting just a bit as he is always honest with himself). 
    lit was bad enough when the Porsche was quicker in your minds. Now that you sense a little competition you choose to not even believe it is true. I hate the word. Denial. 
    As a student of persuasion this is my favorite thread.  Note all the points I made and zero rebuttal. Just complaints about looks and wings and not a bone stock car.  Drive a model 3. There is a reason Tesla has the only seven day return policy. Can you guess what it is?


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Good thing Porsche never used advanced suspension, stickier tires, Motorsport engines or ugly wings and stuff to improve ring times.

    That is correct. Porsche always publish numbers that can later be achieved with customer cars. That is one of their strength. They don't cheat Smiley 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Good thing Porsche never used advanced suspension, stickier tires, Motorsport engines or ugly wings and stuff to improve ring times. All their models are the same. They don’t build any track versions.  Do you guys listen to yourselves at all.   NO hint of self reflection.   Maybe even when you proof read?  It does not sound comical?  No wonder RC wants to stop talking about it so badly (he is perhaps reflecting just a bit as he is always honest with himself). 
    lit was bad enough when the Porsche was quicker in your minds. Now that you sense a little competition you choose to not even believe it is true. I hate the word. Denial. 
    As a student of persuasion this is my favorite thread.  Note all the points I made and zero rebuttal. Just complaints about looks and wings and not a bone stock car.  Drive a model 3. There is a reason Tesla has the only seven day return policy. Can you guess what it is?

    In general I would consider a more relaxed way of writing about these things Smiley You seem agitated and we are just discussing cars here Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Gentlemen just thank me for instilling some excitement to what has recently become a moribund blog. smiley

    Mike (Leawood) makes some excellent points. I think Europeans should open their minds and acknowledge despite musk’s personal traits, he makes a terrific car that attracts buyers from all financial sectors. Up until now, Europeans and Canadian haven’t given him any credit. This is why I decided to join the discussion even though I don’t se e myself buying a EV anytime in the near future. Just because it’s made in the US doesn’t mean it’s inferior.


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:
    Topspeed:

    High price, sure...but "mediocre performance"?

     

    7:43 Ring time compared to 7:13. Yep, very pedestrian especially at a cost of $200,000. Smiley

    Is that Tesla model S for sale? No ;)

    With those mods it would be closer to the 200k of Taycan.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Porsche have played the publicity game very badly. They put themselves in a position to be compared with Tesla, a good electric appliance on wheels. Tesla only have to gain and Porsche only have to lose by this self imposed rivalry and the ensuing debate.

    When was the last time a car from the USA was compared with a German car, I don't remember.


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Gentlemen just thank me for instilling some excitement to what has recently become a moribund blog. smiley

    Mike (Leawood) makes some excellent points. I think Europeans should open their minds and acknowledge despite musk’s personal traits, he makes a terrific car that attracts buyers from all financial sectors. Up until now, Europeans and Canadian haven’t given him any credit. This is why I decided to join the discussion even though I don’t se e myself buying a EV anytime in the near future. Just because it’s made in the US doesn’t mean it’s inferior.

    Don't confuse the people from this board with the rest of the citizens. Tesla is hugely popular in these areas, especially since government regulations enabled people who normally drive a Volkswagen Golf to now drive a >€100k car for almost the same money.

    It is just when Elon insists on comparing his car (which deserves a lot of credit for paving the way) to the product of an upmarket performance car with double the price and getting away with vague rumors and cheating that people tend to feel offended.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    When you add self driving and free supercharging along with the return policy there is nothing to compare. One is a car with an electric motor.  Are they doing anyone a favor by updating it every four years ( making the previous model less desired)  or would you rather have a car that keeps currency with free updates like more power?


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    When you add self driving and free supercharging along with the return policy there is nothing to compare. One is a car with an electric motor.  Are they doing anyone a favor by updating it every four years ( making the previous model less desired)  or would you rather have a car that keeps currency with free updates like more power?

    Even with free updates these cars will feel old after few years. Like every other car. Old stuff to be replaced with new engineering. Also, the design ages a lot. Just look at the model s today. Feels dated even now.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Awesome. You guys are no longer grouping those who’s options you don’t like into marginalized populations. Progress. 
    lf Whoopsy had driven more than 10 minutes he would have noticed that regen  braking can be turned off - why one would want that is a mystery. Also you don’t have to press the gas because with regular use you get into the auto steer and the worlds best cruise control.  Silly not to use them if you don’t want to press on the gas. This is also what I do in the Porsche if I don’t want to hold down the gas. Please let me know if you have a better method I’m not hip to.  The interior reminds me a bit of a b&o stereo. After looking at it, which my ocd loves, all the other cars with their over complicated and fluffy interiors look like whore houses. 
    a couple of things no one mentions - Tesla super charging is free. How free is it for the Porsche?  How expensive are those other chargers you guys like so much because they are not free super  chargers. Does the power from Tesla smell funny?  The you mention you can drive yourself. Like the pdk argument in reverse. Also a handy way to ignore that the Porsche can not drive itself. Kind of a big feature.   So to recap. One charges free and drives itself. Costs half as much and in some tests smokes the Porsche. All you have is worries about not doing a ring lap while Tesla is turning model 3 into robo taxis and yellow cabs. How many Porsche’s would survive as a cab?  
    skiped right over the No commercials part and how the other companies would kill for such satisfaction from customers. Oh well. I guess if your eyes can stomach a clean slate interior, you don’t mind driving yourself all the time and charging cost are no factor then by all means own the Porsche or Audi or whatever. No one wants you to buy what you don’t like. Just pointing out that your conclusion may not make any sense to others (with a budget or a desire to be safer). 
    Finally. Note the expert way the return policy was retracted from. Drive it for 10 minutes and returned it. That’s is the max return for everyone else.  Again I would challenge any other automaker to offer 7 day returns. Think about how amazing that is. To dismiss it is nuts but a good measure of the power of groupthink.  
    keep the rationalization coming.  Very enlightened by it. Certainly not convinced or impressed by the logic. 

     

    Leawood buddy! It is this really you? The one we have been hanging out here with for the last decade or so? The writing style seemed................so cultist. Sorry to be blunt but there is no way around it. Every 'point' you made is twisted fact attempting to justify whatever choices Elon has made to the car.

    Like that regen braking part. Did you know why Tesla has 'developed' one pedal driving? Tesla aren't able to blend regen braking with physical braking, something even Prius can already btw, not just PAG, so he wired the brake pedal as a conventional brake and program the throttle to be in regen mode the moment one lift off. It's actually not a feature but a 'defect' of the car. My e-Tron defaults to drive like a normal car, and that's much better than what Tesla default to. Why should I have to go in the menu and dig for 5 mins to find the button to turn off regen braking?

    And why should I use cruise control? Being an advanced version of cruise control does't make it better. It's the most dangerous thing, well second most after touch screens, inside a car. For drivers to stay alert driving, the driver needs to be engaged, constant steering input and throttle input. Tesla's autopilot is trying to take away both, what for? Does Tesla wants their drivers to fall asleep in the car? That's dangerous. Since the beginning of time, I have never ever engaged cruise control once ever in all my cars. There is no point. Not even during the long long long stretches of empty highway in the Nevada desert. I need to stay alert for wild life that might jump onto the highway and be prepared for it.

    And you diss about the PDK, oh boy. Anyways who says a peddle shifter is not as engaged as a stick shift? Slap it to manual mode and it is just like the peddle shifter in my race car, very engaging if you ask me. And even in auto mode, the peddles are still active and I can change gears whenever I feel like, just like a stick shift. 

    Oh yeah the 'minimalist' interior. You want to know why? Elon wants to save cost. All those little switches and buttons cost money, he takes them all away and and used the touch screen to control everything, much cheaper as it's just lines of codes for the OS and his programmers are fixed cost asset. If that minimalist is really that great, why didn't he put the steering control and throttle and brake control inside the touch screen too?

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:

    Gentlemen just thank me for instilling some excitement to what has recently become a moribund blog. smiley

    Mike (Leawood) makes some excellent points. I think Europeans should open their minds and acknowledge despite musk’s personal traits, he makes a terrific car that attracts buyers from all financial sectors. Up until now, Europeans and Canadian haven’t given him any credit. This is why I decided to join the discussion even though I don’t se e myself buying a EV anytime in the near future. Just because it’s made in the US doesn’t mean it’s inferior.

     

    We can discuss that in a year or so. Before Tesla had the monopoly, you can't even buy and more luxurious version of a EV even if you have the means to. Smiley

     


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Boasting about self driving to a forum of sportscar drivers is like going into a high-end swiss watch forum and boast about not having to worry about loosing charge if not used fir a couple of days with a digital quartz watches... Taycan buyers could not care less about selfdriving just like a 911 buyer could not care less what milage a Prius does...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    It's pretty entertaining to see how the Tesla fans and whatnots freaks out after the Taycan enters the market. They are a pretty insecure bunch.

    For some reason they keep thinking the Taycan is in their segment and is a great threat. Its not! The only thing they have in common is bot have 4 doors and both are EVs, that's about it. Do Toyota worries that Rolls Royce made the Ghost and enters the sedan market? Absolutely not! They are not even in the same segment.

    Porsche and Tesla can coexists inside the EV segment. They are aiming for different parts of it. Porsche had no interest in going for the low end of the market. The Taycan isn't going to steal much sales from Tesla, just some top end buyers that was limited to buying a Tesla before and that' about it.

    For people that are price sensitive, they would still stick to a Tesla.


    --

     

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    lukestern:
    Rossi:

    I guess they will go for that one and only lap and if they achieve their goal, they will make a big fuss about it. Of without one word about repeatability. broken heart

    The Taycan would probably not be able to run 2 full laps at the same speed. Read the fine prints... the Taycan is far from being as repeatable as Porsche says...

    From Porsche regarding drivetrain in Taycan
    "can be repeatedly produced, but usually not consecutively" Smiley

    taycan.png

     

    Sorry, that is nonsense. This has not much to do with 2 NBR laps in a row.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Whoopsy:

    It's pretty entertaining to see how the Tesla fans and whatnots freaks out after the Taycan enters the market. They are a pretty insecure bunch.

    For some reason they keep thinking the Taycan is in their segment and is a great threat. Its not! The only thing they have in common is bot have 4 doors and both are EVs, that's about it. Do Toyota worries that Rolls Royce made the Ghost and enters the sedan market? Absolutely not! They are not even in the same segment.

    Porsche and Tesla can coexists inside the EV segment. They are aiming for different parts of it. Porsche had no interest in going for the low end of the market. The Taycan isn't going to steal much sales from Tesla, just some top end buyers that was limited to buying a Tesla before and that' about it.

    For people that are price sensitive, they would still stick to a Tesla.

    Funny how you define freak out. Sad how you keep pumping us all together to keep up the insult, like we care.   All we are doing is explain that comparison is not apples to apples.  You make fun of self driving but it is a pretty freakin neat feature. Given that I’m a manual driver that says a lot. 
    All these other complaints are just style issues. The Tesla designer is a dude named Franz from Audi. So how American is the car?   My favorite is arguing that we are wrong for being price conscious.  This explains the Porsche demographic- not price or feature sensitive.  
    The outdated design is the one being replaced every few years. That is what makes it outdated. If you don’t change it but keep improving the cars already out there how on earth is that going to not delight current and future owners? Smiley
     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Btw Re the autonomous driving, in the Model 3 one slightly frightening phenomenon was that we were driving on the highway Zurich to Basel and the road maintenance guys were trimming bushes on the side of the road. To warn about it they set up mobile warning barriers (fixed ones ) in the shoulder lane on the right. Think of a scaffold barrier. So we tested the auto pilot and even though these barriers covered the whole shoulder lane, the auto pilot did not pick them up. I dont think the system is ready for real-time to be honest. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:
     

    Funny how you define freak out. Sad how you keep pumping us all together to keep up the insult, like we care.   All we are doing is explain that comparison is not apples to apples.  You make fun of self driving but it is a pretty freakin neat feature. Given that I’m a manual driver that says a lot. 
    All these other complaints are just style issues. The Tesla designer is a dude named Franz from Audi. So how American is the car?   My favorite is arguing that we are wrong for being price conscious.  This explains the Porsche demographic- not price or feature sensitive.  
    The outdated design is the one being replaced every few years. That is what makes it outdated. If you don’t change it but keep improving the cars already out there how on earth is that going to not delight current and future owners? Smiley
     

     

    Exactly, you said it yourself. 

    A comparison between a Taycan and a Tesla is not apple to apple, they are completely different car in different segment. 

    It's the Tesla people that keep bringing up the comparison and keep repeating that the Tesla is better than the Taycan. Smiley

    Taycan is a performance oriented luxury EV sedan.

    A Model S is a performance oriented premium sedan. 

    Different segment. Just like one don't compare a Rolls Royce Ghost with a Dodge Charger Hellcat. 


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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    I just ordered another tesla. Yep my second car in a week - other was a BMW 850 convertible. This will replace my wife’s model x. She’s taking my model s until next May when that lease is up. She can decide if she wants another model x or s. I can’t ignore the bang for buck with the model 3 performance. The lease with nothing down is $800 a month. Got a black/black/black version. I will get it dechromed too.  My new train station car.  Hope to get the 992 GT3 in a year or so.  I got both the 850 and model 3 for less than the lease of a 992 C4S cab lease.......can’t imagine what the Taycan leases would cost. 
     


     


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    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


     
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