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    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    reginos:

    The first Panamera looks nicer today than when it came out. A proof of good design? Probably.

    Yes and no...depends on the model and the wheels used.

    The first Generation Cayenne looks more terrible after 15 years.

    It looks like an elephant or whatever you want to call it. Smiley Even the 955.2, I really liked it and wished Porsche would have started with it, looks bad now. Smiley I also can't help it, the new Cayenne looks so boring. Haven't seen a single car on the road since it came out, so I guess it isn't exactly a bestseller in Germany. The trend is towards smaller SUVs anyway...I guess. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    reginos:

    The first Panamera looks nicer today than when it came out. A proof of good design? Probably.

    The first Generation Cayenne looks more terrible after 15 years.

     

    Hmmm, no! It looks bad eve now with the hunch back roof, and looks absolutely terrible next to the current Panamera.


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    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    To each his own, the first Panamera was the best design by far to me also... Everything that came after was a vague shadow of the original idea and uniqueness.


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    One man’s poison is another man’s cure I guess. indecision


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Agree on the Panamera design . The first one was the best one . Original , different  , still looks good today . It will stay as a design . Now they are way too conformist and could be a better Audi 


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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    JoeRockhead:

    One man’s poison is another man’s cure I guess. indecision

     

    I don't know, cyanide kills all anyways ................Smiley


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    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Whoopsy:
    reginos:

    The first Panamera looks nicer today than when it came out. A proof of good design? Probably.

    The first Generation Cayenne looks more terrible after 15 years.

     

    Hmmm, no! It looks bad eve now with the hunch back roof, and looks absolutely terrible next to the current Panamera.

    For me it is the same, that hunch back was absolutely hideous, amorphous, and the much better looking new Pan generation only made it more evident.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Can’t tell if folks are joking about the 1st gen panamera. 

    It was a nice design that nevertheless had tremendous weakness as viewed from the rear corners.

    the latest design iteration wiped all those weaknesses away while sacrificing none of its strengths.


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Appreciation for designs is not universal. No joke, the 1st iteration was by far the best, for me (and my wife too)...


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    +1 

    it had character. The last gen doesn’t.


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    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    The current Panamera might be more readily acceptable than Gen1 but it has less personality. It looks like a more oversized 991. From a distance when coming towards you can even mistake Panamera for a 911.

    The Sport Turismo is a visual compromise.


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    DaveChapin:

    Can’t tell if folks are joking about the 1st gen panamera. 

    It was a nice design that nevertheless had tremendous weakness as viewed from the rear corners.

    the latest design iteration wiped all those weaknesses away while sacrificing none of its strengths.

     Completely agree. And the Sport Turismo is growing on me. If it has one failing it is probably 20cm too long!


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    SciFrog:

    How is this as a large definition of a sport car:

    A sport car is a vehicle that offers superior performance, handling and drive feel that entices you to (safely) push it to the limit for fun on a public road or at the track.

    I like that one, but feel this one is too restrictive:

    A sport car is a vehicle that is purpose built for going fast on a public road or at the track compromising on other considerations like confort and practicality.

     

    How about this one. A car that is based on a sedan platform with go-fast additions (eg M5, M3/4, E63, C63, RS6 etc) is not a sports car but a fast sedan. A car that starts life as a sports car, eg low center of gravity, mid/rear engine, is a sports car. Feel of a 911 is just fundamentally different to a go-fast BMW, sorry, not comparable.


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Tough one. Is a Panamera a sport car then? How about a 3 series CSL? A Nissan GTR? A Z4?


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Clearly no to all of them


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    How about a Ferrari Lusso, an Aston Rapide or a Bentley GT?


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    A sports car must be essentially a "B road king". This is IMO the paramount attribute. B roads including mountain passes are the sports car is where action takes place for most sports car drivers. Anyone can go fast on a highway in a huge engined car and race tracks are not accessible to most people.

    Therefore, a proper sports car must be lithe and agile with excellent feedback and adjustability. Excess power is not essential.

    The three sports cars I would consider are:

    • Any good closed cabin 911
    • BMW M2 Competition
    • Renault Alpine A110/S


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    The Bentley GT is a very nice car, but definitely not to be regarded as a sports car. The GT2 on the other hand.....smiley


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    M5 Competition

    Very respectable time considering

    • The type of car and the weight and the P Zero tyres
    • The driver diversions: telephone ringing at 2:06 (very unprofessional) and the obstructed view from the windscreen as from 3:57 ( a bird sacrificed).


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    My lease is up on my BMW i8 so went shopping. I have my tesla model S P100D for my daily driver. I wanted something fun to sit along side my 991.2 GT3 but be a bit more usable and a 4 seater convertible. I have kids. 

    I test drove a 992 C4S cab and the BMW 850M convertible. $156k v $125k.

    The C4S is obviously the best handling car no question. But the 850 engine, ride, looks and interior just blew me away. The torque and the sound are amazing. Oh that sound. It’s shockingly good. BMW did an amazing job with the engine. I also sat in and turned on the M5 but the engine sounds like a 4cylinder in comparison. Didn’t try the M8. The 850 is enough and the engine sounds so much better. 

    The 850 lease is 60% of the C4S so its a no brainer. The 992 GT3 will keep me in the Porsche family next - I own my GT3. The Taycan is way too expensive so not moving ahead with one. I do like value for money.  I work too hard to burn money.

    I will miss my i8 (it grew on me a lot) but this will probably be my last ever V8 and regular ICE car. I pick up the 850 next weekend. Love this color combo so much. 
     

    B98CB7ED-1B35-452B-94B8-A73B5731343D.jpeg


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    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Congrats and enjoy it.

    Taycan 4S may be just slightly more money?  but not a convertible though.


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    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S;  2019 Speedster (incoming)
     


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    EnglishManInNY:

    My lease is up on my BMW i8 so went shopping. I have my tesla model S P100D for my daily driver. I wanted something fun to sit along side my 991.2 GT3 but be a bit more usable and a 4 seater convertible. I have kids. 

    I test drove a 992 C4S cab and the BMW 850M convertible. $156k v $125k.

    The C4S is obviously the best handling car no question. But the 850 engine, ride, looks and interior just blew me away. The torque and the sound are amazing. Oh that sound. It’s shockingly good. BMW did an amazing job with the engine. I also sat in and turned on the M5 but the engine sounds like a 4cylinder in comparison. Didn’t try the M8. The 850 is enough and the engine sounds so much better. 

    The 850 lease is 60% of the C4S so its a no brainer. The 992 GT3 will keep me in the Porsche family next - I own my GT3. The Taycan is way too expensive so not moving ahead with one. I do like value for money.  I work too hard to burn money.

    I will miss my i8 (it grew on me a lot) but this will probably be my last ever V8 and regular ICE car. I pick up the 850 next weekend. Love this color combo so much. 
     

    B98CB7ED-1B35-452B-94B8-A73B5731343D.jpeg

    Congrats and yes, I think you made the right choice, especially from a value for the buck point of view. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Congrats and very good choice, the 850 bridges the gap between the GT3 and the S P100D better than a 992C4SCab, and with that lease price difference it is a smart move!

     


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    IMO the 8 series is the best 2 door coupe given the performance/price ratio, if you already have a 911 that is blush

    The only problem I can find is the limited rear accommodation given the overall size of the car, which is substantial for a coupe at 4.85x1.95 meters. BMW should have either freed up interior space for the benefit of rear occupants or given the limited rear space make the car smaller for city centre practicality and B road compactness.

     


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    That engine alone is worth the money... Enjoy!


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    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    Too big too wide at the back and too heavy. That said I always had a soft spot for the old 8 series.....


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    996FourEss:

    Too big too wide at the back and too heavy. That said I always had a soft spot for the old 8 series.....

    I agree but the lease cost for these puppies is ridiculously low, especially compared to Porsche or other sports car companies. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    RC:
    996FourEss:

    Too big too wide at the back and too heavy. That said I always had a soft spot for the old 8 series.....

    I agree but the lease cost for these puppies is ridiculously low, especially compared to Porsche or other sports car companies. 

    Puppies? More like grown-up Mastiff these 8 series Smiley

     


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    They aren’t any larger than a GTC for example. It’s not trying to be a 911. 


    Re: New BMW 8 Series (2018)

    RC:
    996FourEss:

    Too big too wide at the back and too heavy. That said I always had a soft spot for the old 8 series.....

    I agree but the lease cost for these puppies is ridiculously low, especially compared to Porsche or other sports car companies. 

    My lease is lower than the lease of my last Boxster. And I think I have all extras ordered 


     
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